Decks that don't "go together"?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 08 Mar 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

closrapexa	08 Mar 2004
I have kind of a strange question. I have three decks: Thoth, Morgan-Greer And Raider-Waite. A freind who is an experienced reader told me that the Raider and Thoth don't "go together" and are disharmonious. Is there anything in what she's saying? And she also says that merely owning the Thoth promotes change (not that there's anything wrong with that). Are these just superstitions?

Cerulean	08 Mar 2004
I saw Susan Levitt's Complete Tarot kit with the Rider Waite and Thoth deck illlustrated and pictured side by side. She writes about the similarities and differences in color, symbolism, etc. The book is available separately from the kit and may ease someone's discomfort in the differences in the design. http://www.susanlevitt.com/tarot-bookintro.html The Morgan Greer as a deck follows Rider Waite symbology, although the pictures seem more like colorful portraits and the colors are deep and rich. If I owned a Morgan Greer and then chose a Rider Waite deck or owned a Rider Waite deck and then chose a Morgan Greer deck, perhaps you could say this--I might be looking at subtle design differences and not wanting much change in my tarot tastes or reading perspective. However if I was picking up a Thoth instead, then it might signal I am interested in learning something modern and different and ready for a change. Some people are sensitive to how images look together and your friend may feel design and concept-wise, Morgan Greer and Rider Waite seem similar and are 'harmonious.' I am not certain, but your friend's view may be because of other people he or she knows. People might have chosen the Thoth deck because they felt they needed a change of pace in their images, so for his/her circle of friends, that could be true. Certainly the different designs and looking at different books can change a point of view, I believe. And then change of interests might follow. Mari H.

ros	08 Mar 2004
I think most Tarots do blend. There all different but yet the same. It's different interpretations that gives you different ideas, & every picture tells a story. The story may be different but the bottom line may blend. IMHO

Emily	08 Mar 2004
I use the Morgan Greer and the Thoth side by side, I'm studying both decks. They are very different however, the Thoth uses cabbalah and astrological symbols and colour - The Morgan Greer is a Rider Waite clone but also based on the teachings of Paul Foster Case so colour is also important. There are name changes in the Thoth, also no King but instead a Knight as the Queen's companion. I also have Susan Levitts kit with the pocket Rider Waite and Pocket Thoth, the books are quite good and there is chart comparing both decks. I do think that the Thoth is a complex deck and really deserves its own study but I don't have any problem using the Morgan Greer and the Thoth side by side.

Phoenyx*	08 Mar 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Emily I use the Morgan Greer and the Thoth side by side, I'm studying both decks. They are very different however, the Thoth uses cabbalah and astrological symbols and colour - The Morgan Greer is a Rider Waite clone but also based on the teachings of Paul Foster Case so colour is also important. There are name changes in the Thoth, also no King but instead a Knight as the Queen's companion. This brings my mind back to the Arthurian times, with Guenivere and Lancelot, with the Knight being the Queen's champion.

yve	08 Mar 2004
I do believe that it is just superstitions...although they are different decks, it isn't impossible to learn the different styles. It just depends on your ability to learn new and different things simulataneously (or seperately for that matter), and to have the time to learn something new. I don't believe that any deck can in itself impose any changes, the cards are just the tool of divination and only project the energy that we divert to them, I don't believe that they hold any power of their own. I own a Thoth and it resides in the same wooden box that my other decks are in, and i haven't noticed any influences on my other decks or even myself that i myself haven't incorporated consciously....however, having said that, if one believes strongly enough that some change/influences will come from owning a Thoth, the belief itself will incorporate/create changes....The power of the mind....

punchinella	08 Mar 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Triquetra This brings my mind back to the Arthurian times, with Guenivere and Lancelot, with the Knight being the Queen's champion. I don't know much at all about Crowley & his deck, but floating around in the back of my mind . . . is the idea that he did away w/ the King for this very reason: because the Knight, not King, is generally the one who 'beds' the Queen, & the Prince & Princess are her (their) children . . . I don't really care for this alteration, personally, but somewhere somehow I got the idea that this is why he did it. (Correct me anybody if I'm wrong.)

Haunted	08 Mar 2004
Hi closrapexa, Just wondering... I'm assuming you're talking about the Aleister Crowley Thoth Tarot, right? Do you know much about Crowley himself?

Nevada	09 Mar 2004
Why do people say things like this to new readers? (Nevada throws up her hands.) If you like them, and enjoy reading with them, that is ALL you need to know. Just enjoy. :) They are a little different. You might want to study each on its own for a little while, but there's no reason not to use both if you want to. There's no right or wrong way, no right or wrong combination of decks to own. You only need to do what's right for you. If you have questions, you know where to find lots of help. Aeclectic. Nevada

SongDeva	09 Mar 2004
Never believe any "rule" anyone gives you for tarot. Certainly accept and consider "suggestions." But as personal as tarot is, you will find that you discover and incorporate your own "rules," and that even these change over time. (Or maybe this is just because I own a Thoth deck, and if I got rid of it, things would be more stationary. LOL)

HOLMES	09 Mar 2004
they are both advanced decks, 1. the rider waite is just as advanced as the toth oh yes, it involves cabala, astrology, and all the golden dawn teachings within. (the picture key to the tarot book written by waite wasnt as indepth as toth however he was under lock and key sort to speak to keep certain things hidden, example why golden dawn changed the strength and justice card. (ps i may have to check that for i saw it in one of my books and the example i was going to use just slipped past my head ). 2. the toth is intensive, and can be read like the rider (just have to transpose the meanings of strenght and justice for they still mean the same thing however are numbered differnt and for those who use qabbalah , or numerology would have to adjust accordingly , but for those who don't know them , then all is good i think ) 3. they both come from the golden dawn which comes from the marsielles albeit updated wtih their qabbalah,decantes system. 4. just merely owning the toth won't promote growth. one has to study it, cultivate it, mediate with it, read with it. 5. by that same token any deck will promote growth 6. the toth for advanced users has swiched the meanings of king and knight , to knight and prince, knight being the equilvent of the king ? (i read lon milo book on toth and other books and this sitll confuses me from time to time ) tzadi is not the star , tzadi is the emperor , and emperor former path becomes the star . that is due to a vision he had. and the toth uses the traditional marsielles placing. of strenght and justice, that is the real changes that one is aware of they can then incorpate it into their toth studies .

Haunted	09 Mar 2004
[quote]Originally posted by Nevada [b]Why do people say things like this to new readers? (Nevada throws up her hands.) Nevada, I'm not sure why you responded with this comment :confused: "Things like" what? Periwinkle asked a question and I merely asked if Periwinkle knew about the deck's creator. Although I don't believe it's necessary to learn the history of a deck I think it sometimes helps, especially if the deck diverges from conventional symbols. If Periwinkle is wondering about the superstitious opinion from her friend, maybe P. should try to figure out what it's based on so she can decide for herself. She's obviously concerned about it, so why dismiss her concern and tell her to just enjoy the pretty pictures?

punchinella	10 Mar 2004
Haunted (great name btw, wish I had thought of that) I thought Nevada was referring to the original post--asking why people say things like 'these 2 decks are disharmonious' . . .

f. silvestris	26 Mar 2004
Crowley and Waite's decks are complementary, as both interpret the Golden Dawn deck designed by Moina Mathers, I think, or was it Harriet Felkin? [no reference to hand]. The GD deck seems more interesting as an ideal than an actual set of cards, and I'm more engaged by it as a sort of ghostly presence that hovers between the Crowley and Waite decks than I would be by a literal interpretation. Crowley is closer to the GD in most respects, including the court cards: he also adds some doctrinaire innovations - ie. lovely Lust, Art and Aeon - the last two have been incorporated into subsequent decks, quite rightly, as they are really felicitous. There is also the matter of the substitution of the Star for the Emperor on the tree of life in Crowley's deck - I know this is stated in the Book of the Law, but I'm utterly out of my depth here. Similarly, I've no idea why Waite changes round Strength and Justice.

paradoxx	27 Mar 2004
The Tarot Nova by Running Press works well with both waite and Thoth symbolisim. you can see where the influence of each applies.

lune	19 Apr 2004
A year ago i started with Crowley because i adored the pictures. Since a few weeks i use Rider Waite with the Crowley deck. For me it's better to understand the minor arcana and the court cards. Each card from the minor arcana is a little piece of a whole story. It's easier to remember the story, in that way i can explain the card. It really helps although i do not like the pictures of RW. The RW deck is to colourless, the faces are without expression. So, for me it works, Crowley and Waite. Lune

Lady Eclipse	22 Apr 2004
Hi, I agree with ros that most do tend to blend together. Joy to you, Maralee

dolphingirl	22 Apr 2004
The ideas of your friend are not ones I have heard before but if you like reading them both there is no reason why you can't. As to the Thoth deck promoting change just by owning it.... well I have had a Thoth deck for a couple of years and I have never noticed it changing me :) :P I personally keep all of my decks together in a drawer and some people will say that is a no no and some say it isn't a problem. I go with what feels right to me. :)

The Decks that don't "go together"? thread was originally posted on 08 Mar 2004 in the Tarot Decks board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Decks, or read more archived threads.