Tarocchi delle Fiabe - warning do not read this...
Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 02 Mar 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.
| mercenary30 |
02 Mar 2004 |
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So now we can add 'teaser' to the list of discriptives we have for firemaiden.
That looks like a very cool deck. It is a full 78 cards or just majors?
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| firemaiden |
02 Mar 2004 |
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Majors only. But I'm learning how to use non-existent pips.
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| Aoife |
02 Mar 2004 |
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OOOOOooooooooooo........... reminiscent of Marc Chagall, one of my favourite artists.
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| firemaiden |
02 Mar 2004 |
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Each card is by a different artist, actually. Which one reminds you of Chagall? The Jack in the Beanstalk one?
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| Osher |
02 Mar 2004 |
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I agree Aoife, it is similiar to Marc Chagall, who is also one of my favourite artists (who provoked a debate: who owns an artists pictures, the artist or the state? but that is for a different board). If there were the minors too, this would be on my wishlist, no question.
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| firemaiden |
02 Mar 2004 |
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Originally posted by Aoife
OOOOOooooooooooo........... reminiscent of Marc Chagall...
No, it isn't
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| Aoife |
02 Mar 2004 |
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Oh... well, that explains it. La Forza doesn't seem to 'fit' with the others - much as I like the image.
L'appeso and Il Mago particularly remind me of Chagall.
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| Imagemaker |
02 Mar 2004 |
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But I'm learning how to use non-existent pips.
Ooo, then you've really got it!
My tarot teacher said when you're really good, you read the backs of the cards--I think you're there.
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| firemaiden |
02 Mar 2004 |
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Hmmm, if they have backs then they exist....
Well, perhaps I should start a new thread for Diana, called "Existent vs. non-existent pips."
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| Imagemaker |
02 Mar 2004 |
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Ask "do pips have backs" too.
Or just read a deck of blank cards. In "Diary of a Psychic," Sonia Choquette said she only used the cards to focus/connect with the querent's vibrations. Then she gave them up (the cards, not the vibrations) and, after expanding her trust in herself, read accurately without them.
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| Osher |
02 Mar 2004 |
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Sole and Mago are both very much in the Chagall tradition, hmmm, Appeso too, maybe Death as well. Sorry FM, need to agree with Aiofe on this one. I suppose this is as close as we will get to a Chagall Tarot.
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| firemaiden |
02 Mar 2004 |
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Did you see the Rapunzel Card?
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| Diana |
02 Mar 2004 |
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Originally posted by firemaiden
Hmmm, if they have backs then they exist....
Well, perhaps I should start a new thread for Diana, called "Existent vs. non-existent pips."
Non-existent seeds are not difficult to read. Like with everything, it's just a question of practice. They cannot be micro-waved.
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| Aoife |
02 Mar 2004 |
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Yes, I saw the Rapunzel card.
You have a point to make?
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| firemaiden |
02 Mar 2004 |
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Originally posted by Diana
Non-existent seeds are not difficult to read. Like with everything, it's just a question of practice. They cannot be micro-waved.
This is the reason I have ordered the Magnificent Tarocchi delle Fiabe... I want to see how my non-existent seeds sprout in the presence of such divine Majors-only artwork.
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| firemaiden |
02 Mar 2004 |
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Originally posted by Aoife
Yes, I saw the Rapunzel card.
You have a point to make?
Yes.
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| Aoife |
02 Mar 2004 |
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Originally posted by firemaiden
This is the reason I have ordered the Magnificent Tarocchi delle Fiabe... I want to see how my non-existent seeds sprout in the presence of such divine Majors-only artwork.
I do think a certain level of honesty should be rightly expected of aeclectians.
'fess up grrlllll......... it may be one reason, but I would suggest that the over-riding reason is 'cos.......
You're a hopelessly romantic taroholic.
Hee hee hee :P
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| firemaiden |
02 Mar 2004 |
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Hmmm. Okay, but I do think these fairytales go very deep, and are a marvellous complement to the tarot archetypes. The Rapunzel Card for the Tower is particularly apt. (and no, it does not look like Chagal)
The "letting down your hair" aspect is a marvelous feminine counterpart to the Tower as sexual climax, and the implication of "Fall from Grace" for the lover, who is "cut off" by the cutting of the hair, is also poignant.
In addition, the lover climbing up Rapunzel's hair to visit her in her emprisonment, (as Beauty is awakened from 100 years of slumber by the prince's kiss) is a wonderful illustration of the Tower as enlightement, Tower as moment of truth, Tower as crumbling of all psychic walls.
I really can't wait to get my hands on these cards....
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| Cerulean |
02 Mar 2004 |
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done at the festival of the Blue Moon in Italy, it seems. When you receive it, there will be a beautiful card with information about the exhibition and a small foldout telling you about the 'archetypes.' It's in Italian, but I do not believe you will have trouble with it.
There will also be some information about a performer known for puppetry shows, I believe.
Even though I found it lovely and distinctive, I have some other lit-based decks, so it went to a special trade.
I think with your storytelling bent, you will probably do many wonderful things.
Mari H.
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| ferrous |
20 Oct 2004 |
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firemaiden, just to revive this thread, how have you been enjoying your delle Fiabe? I myself just got this deck. I think it's lovely. :)
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| Osher |
20 Oct 2004 |
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I'll second Ferrous on this one (and to remind myself that this yet another deck I wouldn't mind!). How's it going with deck FireMidden?
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| rosyelf |
20 Oct 2004 |
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It's going on my Wishlist ! I admit it, I'm an addict. I KEEP saying that about decks. But this one is really lovely and I'm a sucker for fairy stories-enough said ! I'll be ordering it from ALIDA. But not this month, otherwise those credit card people will be rather cross. :(
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| Cariad |
20 Oct 2004 |
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Ditto Rosyelf it really is rather lovely but it will have to go on a wish list!
There are so many decks I will never keep up sigh of despair ah!!!!!!
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| firemaiden |
20 Oct 2004 |
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I love it, I used it as the basis for some readings. Usually I'll draw one Fiabe card to set the tone for the reading, or to show me what's up, then do a little research on that story, and see how it's relevant.
Pretty fun. Many of the stories are available on the web, even for the more obscure tales.
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| ferrous |
20 Oct 2004 |
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Originally posted by firemaiden
I love it, I used it as the basis for some readings. Usually I'll draw one Fiabe card to set the tone for the reading, or to show me what's up, then do a little research on that story, and see how it's relevant.
Nice. That sounds like a brilliant way to use them. :)
Originally posted by firemaiden
Many of the stories are available on the web, even for the more obscure tales.
The only one which I really have no clue about (& how I wonder relates to the traditional meaning of the card) is The World card. I haven't actually done any research on it yet (toddler, new flooring being laid, general mum stuff, you know how it is) but if you feel inclined to give a synopsis of it, I'm all ears. Otherwise, I'm sure I'll look it up sooner or later. :)
[edited to fix terrible-night's-sleep typos]
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| firemaiden |
22 Oct 2004 |
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Hi Ferrous, I don't have the deck in front of me.. which fairy tale is on the world card?
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| ferrous |
22 Oct 2004 |
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Originally posted by firemaiden
Hi Ferrous, I don't have the deck in front of me.. which fairy tale is on the world card?
I don't have it in front of me (& I have a leech .. I mean a kid attached to my breast so I can't get up), but from memory it's a picture of a naked girl in bed, only partially covered by the bed clothes, with a bird cage in the room & a kind of evil/cheeky looking man with a pointy moustache hiding under her bed.
I typed the italian into google & had it translate the page, but I couldn't really make much sense of it. Something about a soldier & two (or was it three?) daughters & they turned into doves??
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| firemaiden |
22 Oct 2004 |
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whoops no... I was thinking the Nightingale.
it is another story
I actually made my own translation from the Italian...
I'll see if I can find it.
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| ferrous |
22 Oct 2004 |
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OOh! Thanks for the link, firemaiden. Going to read it now. :)
I have a two inch thick book of Tales by Hans Christian Andersen. I wonder if it's included in there? Some of them (if I remember correctly, it's been quite a while since I read it. I received it from my Nanna when I was younger) were actually quite gruesome.
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| ferrous |
22 Oct 2004 |
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Originally posted by firemaiden
whoops no... I was thinking the Nightingale.
it is another story
I actually made my own translation from the Italian...
I'll see if I can find it.
Heh. That was a nice story, but I was wondering how it related to the picture. :D
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| firemaiden |
22 Oct 2004 |
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no no... I erased the link. The story you want is Elena the Wise:
Here is my translation of the Italian translation of the Russian of Alexander Affanasiev, as found on this site: Elena la saggia
Elena the wise
Once upon a time, in a certain realm, but not in our realm, a soldier was keeping watch over a stone tower. The tower was locked and sealed, and all this happened at night. Every night exactly at midnight, the soldier heard someone calling from within the tower.
“Hey, sentinel!”
“who’s calling me?” the soldier asked
“Its me, the wicked spirit” answered a voice from within the iron grate, “I’ve been locked up here for thirty years without eating or drinking.”
What do you need?
-- “Free me, and at the right time, I will be useful to you. You need only call me, and I will appear immediately at your service”
The soldier quickly broke the seal, ruptured the keyhole, and opened the door, the wicked spirit flew out of the tower, up into the sky, and escaped faster than lightening.
“Well” thought the solider, I’ve done it now, all my efforts for nothing. Now they will arrest me, take me before a military tribunal, and what is worse, will consign me to be flogged and put in the stocks; I better make my escape while there’s still time. He ran away as fast as his legs would carry him.
He walked for one day, two three, then hunger came, but there was nothing to eat, nothing to drink; he sat down on the street, and cried bitter tears, while thinking, “what kind of idiot am I? I served the czar for ten years, I’ve always been satisfied and content, they gave me three pounds of bread a day, and now look! I’m a fugitive at liberty to die of hunger. And everything is your fault, evil spirit!”
All of a sudden, from who knows where, the evil spirit appeared before him, and said “greetings, soldier, why are you crying?”
“And how am I not supposed to cry, when I’ve been hungry for three days?”
“Don’t kill yourself, there’s a remedy for this” answered the spirit and began to jump here and there, bring every sort of wine and meat dish, delivered him from hunger and thirst, and invited him to his house. “In my home you will live freely, you can eat, drink, amuse yourself as you like, you only need to watch over my daughters, I don’t have any one else to do it”.
The soldier accepted, the evil one took him under the arms and lifted him in the sky and carried him over mountains and oceans to the ends of the earth, and in a palace of white stone.
The evil spirit had three daughters, three beauties. He ordered them to obey the soldier, to give him as much to eat and drink as he wanted, then he flew away to cause trouble in the world, of course, he was an evil spirit! He never remained in one place, but turned constantly around the world, looking to confuse people and lead them to temptation. (tempt them to committing sins).
The solider remained with the beautiful maidens and in this way, his life was going so well, the last thing he thought about was dying. Only one thing tortured him, every night the beautiful maidens left the house, and he didn’t know where they went. He began to question them, but they said nothing, they kept silent. “Okay”, thought the solider, “I will keep watch the whole night, and find out where they go”. At night the solider pretended to sleep profoundly, but really, he was waiting impatiently to find out what happened next.
When the moment arrived, he snuck quietly toward the girls’ door, and leaned against the door, bent down, and looked through the key hole. The beautiful maidens held a magic carpet, spread it out over the floor, threw themselves on it, and were transformed into doves; they beat their wings and flew out the window. “What kind of miracle is this?” the solider wondered, “I want to try it too”. He burst into the room, flung himself agains the rug, and was transformed into a chaffinch. He flew out the window in their pursuit. The doors landed in a green meadow, and the finch perched on the branches of a bush, hid himself in its leaves, and from there observed the scene.
A storm of doves arrived enough to cover the whole meadow, in the middle there was a golden throne. A moment later, the sky and the earth were illuminated, and and here came flying on the air a golden coach drawn by six fire-dragons; in the coach was seated the princess Elena the Wise, of such indescribable beauty, as cannot be believed or imagined, or even told in a fairy tale! She descended from the coach, and sat on the golden throne, began to call the doves one by one, and instruct them in the magic arts. As soon as the lesson was over, she jumped into her coach and disappeared.
Then all the doves, down to the last one, rose from the green meadow, and flew back to their own homes, the sparrow behind found himself in their bedroom. The doves threw themselves against the rug, and became the same beautiful girls as before. The finch also threw himself on the rug, and returned to being a soldier.
“You, where did you come from?” asked the girls.
“ I was with you on the green meadow, I saw the princess on the golden throne, and heard the lessons on various enchantements”
“Well, you can thank heaven that you’re still alive! That princess is Elena the Wise, our powerful sovereign. If she had had her magic book with her, she would have recognized you immediately, and you would not have been able to avoid a cruel death. Be careful, soldier! Don’t go back to the green meadow, don’t allow youself to be enchanted by Elena the Wise, otherwise you will lose your crazy little head”.
The soldier didn’t lose courage, these words went in one ear and came out the other, he waited for the following night, threw himself on the carpet, and turned back into a chaffinch. He flew to the green meadow, hid himself in the bushes, watched Elena the Wise without ever growing tired of admiring her beauty, and thought, “if I had such a wife, I would desire non other in the world! I will follow her flight, this way I’ll find out where she lives:
And when Elena the Wise, descended from her golden throne, jumped into her coach and flew through the air toward her enchanted castle, behind her flew the little finch. The princess arrived at the castle, where she was met by her guards and nurses, took her by the arm and lead her into the garden room. The finch flew into the garden, chose a stupendous tree which stood right under the princesses bedroom, stood on a branch and began to sing with such a beautiful and plaintive voice that the princess couldn’t close her ears, and spent the whole night listening. As soon as the dawn rose, Elena called in a loud voice “guards, nurses, run quickly into the garden and capture that finch. The guards ran into the garden and tried to capture the singing bird; but how could they manage to get him, poor old men! The finch jumped from one branch to another, fluttered close, but did not let himself be caught.
The princess couldn’t stand it, and ran into the green garden herself, wanting to get the little bird herself, she she came close to the branch, and the finch didn’t move, but stayed there, with his wings lowerd, as though he were waiting for her.
The princess was delighted, and took the little bird in her hand, and carried her into the palace, put him in a gilded cage, and hung it in her bedroom. The day passed, the sunset. Elena the Wise left the green meadow, came home, began to take off her clothes and go to bed. The finch looked at her white body, admired her beauty and trembled all over. Barely had the princess fallen asleep, when he transformed into a fly, flew out of the cage, and threw himself against the floor, and became a beautiful young man. He approached the princess’s bed, and looked for a long time at the beauty who lay sleeping, then could not resisit any longer, and kissed her on her sweet mouth. But when he saw the princess awaken, he changed himself quickly back into a fly, flew into the cage, and became a finch again.
Elena the wise opened her eyes, looked around and saw no one. “It’s clear that I’ve had a dream”. She turned over and went back to sleep. But the soldier couldn’t resist, he tried a second time, and then a third, the princess slept lightly, and every kiss awakened her. The third time, she jumped from the bed and said “there’s something strange going on, I need to consult my magic book”. She looked in her book of magic and knew at once that in the golden cage, there was not a simple finch, but a young soldier. “Hey, you, nutso” called Elena the Wise, “come out of your cage this minute. You will answer with your life for you tricks”
There was nothing he could do… The bird flew out of the cage, threw himself on the floor and transformed into a handsome youth. He fell to his knees before the princess, and began to beg for mercy.
“There is no mercy for you, bad boy” answered Elena the Wise, and called for an executioner to come and cut off his head with his axe. Immediately there appeared a giant with a block and an axe, threw the soldier on the floor, put his crazy little head on the block and raised the blade. At the first gesture of the princess, the young head would roll!
“Grant me one last favour, beautiful princess” begged the soldier in tears, “permit me to sing my last song!”
“Okay, sing your last”
The soldier intoned such a sad song, so moving, that Elena the Wise burst into tears, she took pity on the good youth and told him, “your song moved me. I give you ten hours, if in this time you succeed in hiding yourself so well that I can’t find you, I will become your wife, if you fail, I will order them to slice off your head”.
The soldier left the palace and wandered in the thick woods, sat on a stump to reflect, and torture himself with thoughts. “Ah, evil spirit, it is your fault if I die now”.
At this very moment, the evil one appeared. “What’s the matter with you, soldier?”
“hey, he said, I am going to die! How can I hide from Elena the Wise?”
Tthe evil spirt threw himself against the humid earth and transformed himself into a silver eagle. Jump on my back, soldier, I will carry you on high, to the roof of heaven. The solider sat on the eagle, and the eagle flew high above the black clouds.
Five hours passed. Elena the Wise took her magic book, looked and saw everything ike the palm of her hand, and said “That’s enough, eagle, fly down from heaven, come right down, from me you cannot hide. The eagle came down to earth.
The soldier was even more miserable than ever before, “what can I do now? Where will I hide?.”
“Wait” said the spirit, “I will help you” He came next to him and cut him on the ear, and transformed him into a thorn, then he changed himself into a mouse, and carried the thorn between his teeth, and scurried into the palace, found the magic book, and slipped the thorn into the magic book.
The final fifth hour ran out. Elena the Wise opened her magic book, looked and looked again at the book, but it showed nothing; she flew into a terrible rage, and threw the book into the oven. The thorn fell out of the book, hit the floor, and transformed into a handsome youth. Elena the Wise smiled and took him by the hand. “I am cunning, but you are more cunning than me!” They didn’t waste time thinking, they got married and lived happily ever after.
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| ferrous |
22 Oct 2004 |
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Thanks for posting that story, firemaiden. Wow. Fairy stories are weird, aren't they? lol! :D
I'm still not sure what's what in the picture, though. Hmm .. I guess the girl on the bed is Elena the Wise, the bird in the cage is the young soldier .. but who is the man under the bed? The evil spirit?
.. & do you know I only just saw the last bit on your first post that says what 'fiabe' means. *chuckle* .. it all makes sense now. :) .. well, except for who the man under the bed is.
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| firemaiden |
22 Oct 2004 |
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There...I've just gone and edited as many typos as I could find. I translated this many months ago when I was living in Berlin, but never did the proofreading and there were a few words I didn't know, so I left them untranslated. I've gone over it and tried to fix the most glaring typos, but there will be errors here and there. This is my own translation of a text on the web, so it should not be a copyright problem.
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| firemaiden |
22 Oct 2004 |
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Originally posted by ferrous
I'm still not sure what's what in the picture, though. Hmm .. I guess the girl on the bed is Elena the Wise, the bird in the cage is the young soldier .. but who is the man under the bed? The evil spirit?
LOL, definitely, this represents the bedroom scene where the emprisoned soldier as finch is watching Elena. The guy under the bed could either be his soldier body, or... yes, the evil spirit.
I translated maligno as evil, but it is not really evil, it is more like wicked, or naughty, mischievous.
Now the question is, what does this have to do with the World card????
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| ferrous |
22 Oct 2004 |
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Originally posted by firemaiden
Now the question is, what does this have to do with the World card????
rotfl!! I hadn't quite got that far, but you pose a very good question. :D
When I have some time, I think I'll go through each card & see how the stories relate to the meanings of the cards.
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The Tarocchi delle Fiabe - warning do not read this... thread was originally posted on 02 Mar 2004 in the Tarot Decks board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Decks, or read more archived threads.
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