Pagan and Gothic Vampire decks... Without the pagans or the vampires?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 26 Apr 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Mr. Sluagh	26 Apr 2004
http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/pagan-tarot/ http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/gothic-vampires/ Been eyeing these lately. I like them because the symbolism seems very practical. Instead of littering the cards with a bunch of esoteric symbols and mythological references which mean nothing out of context, these cards use literal, contemporary events and actions to get their messages across. The only problem is that in order to do this, they work within very limited themes and specific aspects of life/literature, which I have trouble relating to in both cases. Are there any decks that do similar things, but in a more generic style? Also, could anyone who owns these decks tell me how they think they'd work for someone who isn't a Wiccan or a raving Ann Rice fan? Thanks.

Astraea	26 Apr 2004
I have both of these decks and really enjoy them. I don't see their perspectives as being narrowly representative of specific lifestyles or belief systems, though -- I think of them more in terms of worldviews that find expression in Wiccan and gothic/vampire themes. For example, the Pagan deck speaks of the significance of everyday life in its cosmic setting, making connections with Spirit through intention and acts of awareness; the Gothic Tarot of the Vampires strikes me as a deck that is associated with themes of alienation and struggle to find one's place within a world whose dominant viewpoint is light and airy. I am neither Wiccan nor currently a reader of Ms. Rice's books, but this has not inhibited my appreciation of these decks.

Chronata	27 Apr 2004
Completely my opinion...but a deck that looks pagan and gothic without being... really...either one... The Sacred Rose. Not limited by any actual "theme" in it's symbology. But it always looked rather dark to me.(could be the pupil-less eyeballs!) It's my favorite one for reading with my Goth friends, simply because they all have the Gothic and Vampire decks themselves.

Mr. Sluagh	27 Apr 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Astraea For example, the Pagan deck speaks of the significance of everyday life in its cosmic setting, making connections with Spirit through intention and acts of awareness; the Gothic Tarot of the Vampires strikes me as a deck that is associated with themes of alienation and struggle to find one's place within a world whose dominant viewpoint is light and airy. Well, yes, but these still seem like somewhat specific and limiting themes. Quote: Originally posted by Chronata Completely my opinion...but a deck that looks pagan and gothic without being... really...either one... The Sacred Rose. Not limited by any actual "theme" in it's symbology. But it always looked rather dark to me.(could be the pupil-less eyeballs!) It's my favorite one for reading with my Goth friends, simply because they all have the Gothic and Vampire decks themselves. But it's still fairly conventional and traditional in its symbolism.

ncefafn	27 Apr 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Chronata Completely my opinion...but a deck that looks pagan and gothic without being... really...either one... The Sacred Rose. Isn't Sacred Rose a Christian deck, though? Kim

galadrial	27 Apr 2004
The Blue Rose deck has many contemporary pictures. All cards can be seen at www.tarotpassages.com/pgtar1.htm

Mr. Sluagh	28 Apr 2004
It's not really the contemporary aspect of these decks that I like. It's something that's a little harder to pin down. See, most decks just show things and characters surrounded by esoteric symbols in an attempt to boil the archetypes down to their most basic, essential permutations. The Pagan and Gothic Vampire decks, however, seem to do things a little differently. They get their messages across by showing the archetypes in action, showing how they could be applied. For instance, look at the Chariot in the Gothic Tarot of Vampires (or rather, #7, since this deck doesn't name its cards): most Chariots would depict some sort of vehicle rushing towards some destination or pursuing some adversary using a careful blend of precision and daring. However, this card shows what could be the end result of such a feverish chase: a starved, disheveled vampire standing over the terrified fruits of a night's hunt, about to gorge herself on her prey. So you see, what I find fascinating in these decks isn't their contemporary imagery, so much as the more direct, literal angles from which they view the cards. Instead of trying to get to the heart of their archetypes (which is really a hopeless eneavor since such abstracts are ultimately impossible to express in any tangible medium), they go a few degrees out from the center and portray the arcana not terms of what they are, but what they do. Of course, I guess my desire for a more generalized deck in this style is futile since if a deck is to portray the ends of its arcana rather than their means, it can only choose a single, small range of facets of each arcanum to show. Thus, the artist must decide on a single overarching theme to tie those limited viewpoints together. The only alternative would be to have each card hail from a different theme, creating more diversity. However, this would result in a hectic, overly eclectic pack lacking an inherent, all-encompassing motif to keep it coherent. (Obviously, more conventional decks also have themes. The difference is that they usually try to keep them as close to the central archetypes as possible, whereas the Pagan and Gothic Vampire decks appear to simply take the themes and run with them) I guess I just wish there were more decks like this, so I'd have a wider range of themes to choose from. *whew* That was long. I hope I've explained myself well enough. I've probably mis-expressed half of my points, but I'll be happy to clarify them.

RiccardoLS	28 Apr 2004
I would hope not to stray to much from Your point with the expression that You prefer evocative decks to symbolic decks. You may find something interesting in the low-sales end of LS decks. Have You had a look at the Tarot of Origins and the Tarot of Imagination? They share the same "approach" if I got it right in the first place. For the Pagan and the Vampires, they are totally different from one another. If You plan to choose, You should try to think in what setting You would like to write your story... and then you will see the choice. Ric

galadrial	28 Apr 2004
Very nicely said, Mr. Sluagh; I think I understand what you're looking for. The only deck I own like that is the Baseball Tarot, by Mark Lerner & Laura Philips. It's premise is how all the card energies would play out in the world of baseball. For instance, card 0 is the Rookie, card XII is The Slump, the Nine of Mitts (cups) is the Pop Fly, and the 5 of Bats (wands) is the Rhubarb (altercation). I think the book is excellent and find this deck particularly useful for concrete, should I do X or Y, situations. The "Hit, Ball, Strike" 3 card spread is a favorite of mine. It looks like it's on sale at www.learntarot.com/bbdesc.htm

hedgecub	28 Apr 2004
I've heard lots of great reviews of the Baseball Tarot. It's apparently exceedingly well done, especially for such a heavily themed deck. Of course, you'd have to know something about baseball to use it properly...

Oni	04 May 2004
I am a witch not a wiccan mind u, but a follower of Romuva wich is eastern baltic paganism, (ie like Lithuania and Lativa) and i practise slavic witchcraft. and i dont read anne rice ither! as being both into slavic occultism and paganism, i would have to say i dont think the decks really represent ither. the images show a more standard, hollywood view of what vampires and paganism is not actully pertaining to actul folk lore or pagan belifs. it seems to me that both these decks r made to appeal/sale to ither teens or more mainframe people that dont really want to delve into occult things, a more kinder gentler occultism Now if someone came up with an actul deck that represents the slavic outerworldly spirts or a pagan deck that was less like hmm wicca based i would go for it. just my 2 cents

Cerulean	10 May 2004
Check out the overviews first for thumbnails before you download the text and images... http://www.m31.de/experimental_tarot/ This might be what you are looking for, as modern day life just seems to be the only theme of this deck and a sensible outlook. I haven't downloaded the meanings yet, so I cannot tell you how it reads. It's not intuitive to me. I received the cards in a trade but my 'daily' deck is becoming the Ananda because what I am learning from it seems applicable to me...but you might think that digital deck has too many offbeat collage elements and personality depictions..

Cerulean	27 Oct 2004
Here's one! I found the preliminary scans fascinating at a recent conference: http://www.tarottools.com/tbid/index.htm Regards, Cerulean

Myrrha	28 Oct 2004
That is an interesting idea, a tarot that unpacks the arcana a bit and shows them "in action" in the context of life. If I am understanding your point correctly. The Buckland Romani deck does this, although probably not to the extent that the Gothic Vampires does. It still has a narrow theme though. Quote: Originally posted by Mr. Sluagh if a deck is to portray the ends of its arcana rather than their means, it can only choose a single, small range of facets of each arcanum to show. Yes. This makes me appreciate the archetypes even more, how they pack so much into one image. --Myrrha

WolfSpirit	28 Oct 2004
I think the Gay Tarot does that as well :)

The Pagan and Gothic Vampire decks... Without the pagans or the vampires? thread was originally posted on 26 Apr 2004 in the Tarot Decks board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Decks, or read more archived threads.