Court Cards Without Gender/Rank Associations?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 24 May 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Mr. Sluagh	24 May 2004
Are there any decks out there whose court cards don't have gender associations or any sort of hierarchy? Something based entirely on elemental associations or maybe even the Myers-Briggs typology comes to mind. Any recommendations?

Nitewindz	24 May 2004
The Voyager deck minimizes rank and gender. Instead of king and queen it's man, woman, child, and sage. Each card has a representative title, so for example the Man of Worlds is Achiever. One of the key images on Achiever - Man of Worlds is an althelete, looks like a marathon runner to me. The human figure on the card is a male but the whole "feeling" surrounding the card is an urge to compete and a drive to win. When I first learned to read I learned the classic physical assoications with the court cards, such as the Queen of cups is a blue-eyed female, or whatever. These associations seldom worked for me so I quickly discarded them and learned to focus on the genderless human charactaristics associated with that card first. Then it was easy to spot the person, male or female. For example, when I read, I see the Queen of Cups as a timid person or a "follower", never a confident leader. Then I look at the situation, and see who fits the profile, regardless of sex. So I like the way the Voyager deck retained enough of the associations to keep the same structure as the traditional deck.

Kiama	25 May 2004
Actually, I'm busy creating one now! :D There is no Queen/King?Prince/Princess in my deck, but instead: Master (King) Channel/Nurturer (Queen) Quester (Knight) First Stirring (Page) First Stirrings of Air= Page of Swords. The First Stirrings of... ideas? Intellect? Thought? Nurturer/Channel of Water= Queen of Cups. The Nurturing of Emotions? Romance? The Channel of Psychism? Emotions? Quester of Fire= Knight of Wands. The Quest for Sexuality? Identity? The self? Adventure? The ego? These are based on elemental correspondances. For instance, the Queen is Water, and Water I see as a channel or as Water of Life, hence the Nurture. Air I see as very moving, never still, always flitting from one thing to another, and as associated with the seeking mind, hence the Quester. The Page is Earth, and in the Earth we get the fertilization, the first stirrings of plant seeds. etc etc. I think the World Spirit Tarot also has Court Cards without the Queen/King thing so, with Sage and Sibyl instead. Blessings, Kiama

jmd	25 May 2004
To each their own preference... I wonder, though, whether having a deck which is going to be called Tarot really can do without the four court cards - as court cards. Whether one associates with them the MBTI (as I at times do), and whether one also gives them a particular Kabalistic metaphor linked to a particular way of viewing the tetragrammaton, is a different matter. In pictorial representation, I personally would suggest actually having the King, Queen, Knight and Valet (in that order too, by the way). What one perhaps may be encouraged to do is to reflect on both the principles these bring, and not the stereotype with which they may at times be associated. If anything, using more traditional images and doing the exercise of breaking away from the stereotype may even assist us in breaking away from perceiving those around us in stereotypical ways. The deck, by the way, suggests this in its own meticulous fashion, for even reflecting on what it means to be King, for example, and then what it means to be King of Swords, instead of Cups, or Cups, instead of Coins, or Coins, instead of Sceptres, or of Sceptres, instead of Swords, leads one to quite differing considerations on the human condition - irrespective of gender. Further, to remove the gender of the courts, to me, is confusing views which express stereotypical gender roles with, instead, the also distinct differences which exists between the masculine and the feminine - between man and woman, and between boy and girl. These are differences which are intrinsic, not just, in my view at least, culturally determined - though stereotypical gender-based comments may indeed be culturally determined. Tarot, as it stands, brings such a richness to even developing an appreciation to the differences of sex, of age, of orientation, and of professional engagement. I personally consider that more would be lost by taking away the 'gender' and 'hierarchy' existing within the courts than may be claimed to be gained.

Jewel	25 May 2004
Personally, like jmd, I have a preference for the court cards to be traditional courts, and like Kiama I like the elemental associations included in each. I am a firm believer that each of us has our "feminine" and "masculine" sides and that the court cards can speak to this in readings. Blending the traditional courts with elemental corresopondences can take this a step further in addressing particular issues, I think Kiama described this well in the examples of the cards she is creating so no need to re-state it. The heirarchy also proves useful in readings by allowing us to see where we, the querent or others might be in terms of the issue or question, which can provide us with insights in either understanding where this person might be coming from, or what side of ourselves we may need to use in order to overcome certain things. Humans are multi-faceted, we are not simply a "knight of wands", in other situations we might be a "queen of pentacles" and so forth. Just my two pearls on the subject ...

The Court Cards Without Gender/Rank Associations? thread was originally posted on 24 May 2004 in the Tarot Decks board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Decks, or read more archived threads.