Does the Aleister Crowley Thoth Tarot really look this dirty?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 08 May 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Kittaine	08 May 2004
I bought this AC Thoth deck from ebay, and the description said it was "brand new." But when I checked out the cards, they weren't very glossy anymore, and I could see that their sides looked dirty when I placed them in a pile. And the cards weren't in order anymore! The seller still maintains that they're brand new. Does this deck normally look like this?

Centaur	08 May 2004
Mine's are clean and not dirty looking. It sounds like you should maybe check again with the seller again, and state that you are not satisfied. Can I ask if they were in a cellophane wrapper, or had the box been opened?

Kittaine	08 May 2004
Yes, the box had been very much opened. The sides of the cards look dirty...

Centaur	08 May 2004
It does sound as though they have been used. Maybe you should consider asking for a refund?

Kittaine	08 May 2004
I paid $11.49 (excluding shipping cost) for this! >_ Thanks!

Centaur	08 May 2004
You will find one on Tarot Garden for $18. Maybe if you search around you will find a cheaper one?

Kittaine	08 May 2004
Thanks! I guess $11.49 a fair price for a used deck, dontcha think...?

mercenary30	08 May 2004
That is not a bad price for used, if they are in good shape. There are ways to clean them up some......

hedgecub	08 May 2004
It is a reasonable price for a used deck, but you should still complain to the seller. The product was not as advertised, as it was obviously used when the seller said it was brand new. You could probably negotiate for a discount. At the very least, leave some negative feedback if the seller isn't helpful in sorting things out.

Cerulean	08 May 2004
Tell the seller that friends on an buying and hobby board for tarot fans have searched abebooks.com and came up with three listings for the Crowley Thoth deck with prices of nine to eleven dollars and pointed out the listings has excellent description of what the cards should be--clean and crisp and in shrink wrap if they are new or in fine or as new condition. Also, the option to return the card deck and obtain refunds are available from even used bookstores if the items are not as advertised. You might say politely that your friends in the tarot buying community tend to avoid sellers with negative feedback on receiving dirty cards or being given used cards when advertised as new. And because you've been buying different tarot decks, this is your first time with having such a problem. Ask if the seller has any ideas what would be fair given these cards are dirty and not as advertised. Here are the listings you can cut and paste and send in the email to the seller--they are current as of May 8, 2004 and only three of multiple listings...best wishes. Cerulean Mari 6.Aleister Crowley Thoth Tarot Deck Price: US$ 9.00 [convert currency] Shipping: [rates and speeds] Book Description: U. S. Games Systems, Incor. FAIR. All 78 cards are present. Cards are clean and crisp. The Box has edge wear and bumped corners. Bookseller Inventory #BCD45847-01 Bookseller: The Book Connection (Tempe, AZ, U.S.A.) [search this seller's books] [browse this seller's books] [ask bookseller a question] 10. Aleister Crowley's Thoth Tarot Deck Crowley, Aleister Price: US$ 11.00 [convert currency] Shipping: [rates and speeds] Book Description: U.S. Games Systems, Inc. 1987. Fine. 0-88079-308-2. Boxed tarot deck with 26 page booklet of instructions. Clean and bright. Illustrated by Kady Dreida Harris. 10th. edition. Bookseller Inventory #050381 Bookseller: Paper Moon Books (Portland, OR, U.S.A.) [search this seller's books] [browse this seller's books] [ask bookseller a question] 12. Thoth Tarot Deck Crowley, Aleister Price: US$ 12.00 [convert currency] Shipping: [rates and speeds] Book Description: U.S. Games Systems, Inc. Very Good. Enclosed in box which has been opened, however cards shrink wrapped & unopened. Includes 49 page instruction booklet. Bookseller Inventory #18371 Bookseller: Wabash River Books (Terre Haute, IN, U.S.A.) [search this seller's books] [browse this seller's books] [ask bookseller a question]

Umbrae	08 May 2004
Please provide us with the name of the seller.

Sulis	08 May 2004
Leave some feedback on e-bay saying what has happened. Sulis xx

janomalee	08 May 2004
If the deck is advertised as brand new and it obviously isn't that is not OK. I have sold a few decks on eBay and I am always careful to describe the condition of the deck as accurately as possible. If the dealer won't give you a refund, negative feedback is definitely in order.

hedgecub	08 May 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Umbrae Please provide us with the name of the seller. Ooh, another name for Umbrae's little blacklist :) Actually, that's a good idea.. it would stop other Aeclectics from buying from an obviously untrustworthy seller..

Kittaine	08 May 2004
The seller wrote: > It wasnt used I recieved it as a gift and opened it but never used them > they were in a drawer so that is why the box was crunch up, but the deck > itself was never used just looked through. I am not really into tarot > card reading, so tha is why I sold them My reply: I'm sorry, but the cards really look thoroughly used. Dirt's already sticking to the sides of the cards, something that you can't see with brand new or just "looked through" decks. Are you sure it was brand new when you received it as a gift? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I won't go guerrilla warfare on her yet cos she seems nice! LOL! But if need be, I know exactly what to say! Thanks, Cerulean! ;) And thanks, y'all! If she doesn't cooperate, I'll disclose her name here.

janomalee	08 May 2004
There is a big difference between "brand new" and "I opened the box." For me, an opened box is not brand new. Brand new would be a sealed box.

Emily	09 May 2004
Hi Kittaine, Which Thoth is it? The standard Thoth with the lavender box and 3 Magi or the so-called green tinged Thoth? I have both large Thoth decks - green and the newer vibrant one and the green tinged one does have grey sides when compared to my new Thoth. But saying that my green Thoth was second hand too, is very old and was used. Does the deck feel ok to use? If not then maybe you should just ask for a refund and return the deck - I think like janomalee, brand new should be shrink wrapped.

Kittaine	09 May 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Emily Hi Kittaine, Which Thoth is it? The standard Thoth with the lavender box and 3 Magi or the so-called green tinged Thoth? I have both large Thoth decks - green and the newer vibrant one and the green tinged one does have grey sides when compared to my new Thoth. But saying that my green Thoth was second hand too, is very old and was used. Does the deck feel ok to use? If not then maybe you should just ask for a refund and return the deck - I think like janomalee, brand new should be shrink wrapped. Yeah, it's the one in the lavender box with 3 Magi. I've never had a deck that's as used as this. When I first looked at it, I felt disappointed by its condition. It wasn't glossy (I have a thing for glossiness, hehe) and I could notice the brown color on the sides. When I looked through the cards, the first one wasn't The Fool and some of the cards were reversed. I had to make them upright and arrange them in order to get that feeling that it was a new deck! LOL!

Centaur	09 May 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Kittaine When I looked through the cards, the first one wasn't The Fool and some of the cards were reversed. I had to make them upright and arrange them in order to get that feeling that it was a new deck! LOL! In my opinion, that deck is definetly a used one... or at least, a shuffled one. 1. Dirty looking cards 2. Cards out of order 3. Reversed cards Yep... I think all the clues point to the deck as used.

hedgecub	09 May 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Kittaine I won't go guerrilla warfare on her yet cos she seems nice! LOL! But if need be, I know exactly what to say! Thanks, Cerulean! ;) Hmm.. to my suspicious mind she sounds like she's making excuses, not being nice :( I'd also ask why the cards were out of order and some of them were reversed. Normally when people 'look through' a deck, they just go through it, like with photos; they don't get them out of order and upside down. And the dirty sides are a dead giveaway that the cards were used at some point.. you don't get dirty edges by having your cards sit unused in their box in a drawer.

Centaur	09 May 2004
I am with Hedgecub on this one. It just doesn't sound right at all. Also, as an afterthought, the seller sounded 'nice', but this is usually the way of people who are good at deceiving others. I hope that you manage to get a refund or at least some money back on the deck.

Emily	09 May 2004
Hi Kittaine, I agree with Hedgecub and Centaur, I think she's trying to pull a fast one and not being nice. For what you've paid for this deck you could have had a brand new one, or at least one that had been gently used. It wouldn't be so bad if they were gently used or looked loved and worn but cards don't get really dirty unless they are really old, which this deck probably isn't, so they haven't been looked after, I suppose you're lucky they were all there lol. And then she didn't bother to put them in the right order. No not a nice seller at all.

Kittaine	09 May 2004
Been a day now, and no reply yet. I'll give it one or two more days, and if she still doesn't reply, then...then...I dunno what to do. @_@ Should I leave a negative feedback? Well, duh, definitely. But should I ask for a refund, or to have this exchanged for a deck that's in much better condition?

Emily	11 May 2004
Hi Kittaine, If she's going to be difficult to get hold of, maybe you should just ask for a refund - the deck isn't what you wanted and now probably everytime you try to use it you'll notice the dirt and the bad condition. She wasn't being honest with the decks' condition, she couldn't even be bothered to put them in order for you.

Jewel	11 May 2004
Ask for your money back. You are already dissatisfied with the deck, which means you will probably never use it. The whole Thoth experience is starting off on a bad foot with this deck. Get your money back, and get a Thoth deck that you will be happy with, and can start using with good experiences. Getting a new deck is very exciting, and at least for me it sets the tone of my relationship with each deck.

Centaur	11 May 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Kittaine Been a day now, and no reply yet. I'll give it one or two more days, and if she still doesn't reply, then...then...I dunno what to do. @_@ Should I leave a negative feedback? Well, duh, definitely. But should I ask for a refund, or to have this exchanged for a deck that's in much better condition? I agree with Emily and Jewel. I think that you should ask for your money back. Even if she were to exchange the deck, I wouldn't trust her to send one in better condition. Let us know what happens. :)

The Does the Aleister Crowley Thoth Tarot really look this dirty? thread was originally posted on 08 May 2004 in the Tarot Decks board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Decks, or read more archived threads.