Rider-Waite-Smith: AG Muller Vs US Games

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 25 Jun 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

FlipTarot	25 Jun 2004
Are their opinions one way or another about AG Muller's (or Mueller's) RWS deck as compared with US Games? I'm considering ordering a Muller deck but have been unable to find (using the search function) a discussion comparing these on Aeclectic. Similarly sites like http://www.learntarot.com/deckcomp.htm or http://www.advancenet.net/~jscole/tarotrwsclone.htm make no mention of this. Are they identical? Are the colours or backs different etc? Thanks in advance for any comments. FlipT

Fulgour	25 Jun 2004
I got the German-language version of the RWS and it blows usgames standard issue awaaaay

FlipTarot	25 Jun 2004
Thanks Filgour Is that deck published by AG Mueller? If so, in what way is it better? FT

Fulgour	25 Jun 2004
AGM-AGMuller prints lots of usgames decks. The differences with the Greman-language one, which I bought out of curiosity, are: soft cards with a matte finish, as opposed to hard and glossy full images, which are slightly trimmed on the English version faithful colouring, without the harsher tones of the glossy Overstock.com had the German-language deck at a good price, but I couldn't say if its still in stock. My guess is yes. If you look there, enter Rider Waite Tarot in the Search. Good luck.

northsea	25 Jun 2004
I've had some bad luck with AG Muller decks. They seem to have less quality control at their factory, the customer has to pay shipping for a replacement deck, and the shipping cost through TarotWorld is expensive (at least to the US). But maybe my experience with them differs from most peoples', and I do have a couple of their decks that I like. Good luck.

The 78th Fool	25 Jul 2004
If you really want a cat among the pidgeons, why not go for the 'original' Rider Waite instead ? It's published by Rider and Sons and is a photo facsimile of one of the very earliest editions. The overall effect is quite different - the colours are richer and more muted and there is more texture than on the standard US Games or Muller editions. Best of all though is that the hideous grey and blue tartan backs are replaced by Pamela Coleman Smith's original design featuring tudor roses and lilies. You should be able to get this through Amazon. Chris. x

The 78th Fool	25 Jul 2004
Re: Original Rider Waite. If you look at the Rider Waite review on the main site there's a link to Amazon for ordering this item in the body of the text.

fyreflye	25 Jul 2004
The German Rider-Waite can be ordered from U S Games or from Amazon.ca for the same price as the English-language deck. You can compare all the known versions of the RWS Fool at Holly's Rider-Waite Page http://home.comcast.net/~vilex/ShipofFools.html I'd certainly like to get an edition of this deck that is neither pasteboard like my vintage 1971 deck or a guitar pick like the current U S Games issue.

The 78th Fool	26 Jul 2004
With regard to the above post, I too can't recommend Holly's Rider pages highly enough. I've only discovered them through the forum over the last few days . Months ago, I wrote the review on the main site for the Rider Waite Tarot - Problem is that Holly's wonderful research shows my information to be considerably off the mark and I'm going to have to re - write! Check this site out and you'll discover what a truly complex and fascinating history this deck really has. Apart from anything else - what I wouldn't do to own one of those wonderful 1910 first editions! Chris. x

Pagan X	02 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by The 78th Fool If you really want a cat among the pidgeons, why not go for the 'original' Rider Waite instead ? It's published by Rider and Sons and is a photo facsimile of one of the very earliest editions. The overall effect is quite different - the colours are richer and more muted and there is more texture than on the standard US Games or Muller editions. Best of all though is that the hideous grey and blue tartan backs are replaced by Pamela Coleman Smith's original design featuring tudor roses and lilies. You should be able to get this through Amazon. Chris. x Sorry, that is not true. It's a "creative recreation" of a deck that was rejected by Waite and Smith.

fyreflye	03 Aug 2004
Quote: Sorry, that is not true. It's a "creative recreation" of a deck that was rejected by Waite and Smith. Reference your sources, please.

The 78th Fool	03 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Pagan X Sorry, that is not true. It's a "creative recreation" of a deck that was rejected by Waite and Smith. I'm not sure what you mean, but I'd appreciate some clarification. I'd assumed the card fronts were one of the early printings (similar to what you see on Holly's Rider pages) http://home.comcast.net/~vilex/index.html The back design I assumed is from the first edition, the likes of which has appeared on ebay recently (and sparked a bidding war between US Games and Lo Scarabeo!). I've written an article on this which I recently realised would have to be severely rewritten because the print history of the deck is far more complex than I realised. Any further light cast on it would be really appreciated

Pagan X	03 Aug 2004
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19475

The 78th Fool	04 Aug 2004
Thanks Pagan! Lee just notified me of this thread too. It's clarified the situation a lot, particularly with regard to the artwork being copied and re - copied onto printing blocks which were often being replaced due to wear - Hence the bewildering number of 'versions' of the original artwork. Chris.

The Rider-Waite-Smith: AG Muller Vs US Games thread was originally posted on 25 Jun 2004 in the Tarot Decks board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Decks, or read more archived threads.