Can't decide: Haindl or Tarot of Transformation?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 19 Jul 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Kittaine	19 Jul 2004
I've been looking for a good study deck that would give me new insights. Right now I'm trying to choose between the Haindl and the Tarot of Transformation... Haindl: The book by Rachel Pollack is really a big plus. I've heard it's great. But, I've heard someone said it's like learning a different system, like Thoth. I've had the AC Thoth deck (the small one in the purple box) for months now and I've never even attempted to study it in spite of my promises. Nonetheless, I'm still curious about the Haindl Tarot, about Rachel Pollack, and about this "different system." Tarot of Transformation: This deck caught my attention when I learned that psychotherapists created it. I am a big, big, Psychology nut. I'm taking up BA Psychology and I intend to make it my life. Naturally, I would want this deck. But how "Psychological" is it really? I only want to have one. I don't want to spend money on a deck and book set that I'm just gonna leave on the shelf to rot. Thanks for your help.

crystal cove	19 Jul 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Kittaine I only want to have one. I don't want to spend money on a deck and book set that I'm just gonna leave on the shelf to rot. Thanks for your help. Being that my Haindl is presently rotting on my shelf ;) I'd have to recommend the Tarot of Transformation. I don't have it, but the interest has always been there.

WolfSpirit	19 Jul 2004
Something you may also take into account: I find the Haindl pretty but it has some melancholy in it Tarot of Transformation is more positive I think (don't have this one; have the Haindl, like the artwork but can't work with it)

Logiatrix	19 Jul 2004
It depends...do you like yellow, or do you like purple? Just kidding--that's a very superficial observation...but the Haindl is quite yellowish, while the T. of Transformation is very purplish. The Haindl Tarot struck me as very deep, and demanded a lot of study; not a bad thing if that's what you're looking for, not a good thing if you want to get comfy and read with your deck right away. Of the few Haindl readers I've communicated with, that is their only deck, or at least their "main" deck; I get the impression that it commands a lot of attention, but also gives a lot in return. Personally, my turn-off was (back to being superficial) the big, sad eye on the backs of the cards...it bugged me to no end; I gave the deck away. The art in both decks is somewhat simillar, but I liked the art in the Tarot of Transformation a tad more; it seemed more calm and soothing to me. The Tarot of Transformation had a very feminine, nurturing vibe to it, in the vein of healing and meditation; it's the "comfy" one of the two choices. I liked the very uplifting (but not sappy) card summaries in the book; the cards themselves are titled untraditionally in keeping with the theme of transformation. There's not much to study beyond the book with this one, due in part to the subjective nature of the theme (it's more about self-awareness and so on), as well as the creator's own take on the subject matter. Again, the deck is very purple and pink, which is a good thing if you like those colors; my set went to a "purple-lover" who reads with it better than I ever did, anyway. This is where I'm supposed to say, "I hope that helps" but it really doesn't tell you which one is the better choice, does it? I guess it depends on what "clicks" for you, which is something no one else can determine...such is the way of the Royal Road. ;) EDIT: I just re-read your initial post, and you clearly stated that you want a deck for study...then I would have to lean toward the Haindl, with plenty to offer even in the way of psychology. Okay, that's all... :D

TaranRavenfrost	19 Jul 2004
Yeah, get the Tarot of Transformation! The Magician looks scary! He is like a dog person!

Dark Inquisitor	19 Jul 2004
Since you are so interested in psychology, Tarot of Transformation would be an excellent fit for you. And, it's fully illustrated unlike the Haindl which has pip cards with some embellishment. Some people don't care about that, but I still find fully illustrated decks more appealing.

Lee	19 Jul 2004
If gender balance is important to you, be aware that the Tarot of Transformation is heavily weighted toward the feminine. A majority of the figures on the cards are female, and of the few male ones, many are used to illustrate negative things. -- Lee

Frank Hall	19 Jul 2004
The Tarot of Transformation is artistically fluid and colorful, with a definite feminine/yin/healing mood to it. If you like a psychology that really portrays the human soul in helpful ways, go for this one . Haindl's deck is too dark and melancholic, gothic, by comparison. The book with Tarot of Transformation is insightful and lyrical, with specific strategies as to how to Self-grow and heal.

Khatruman	19 Jul 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Kittaine I've been looking for a good study deck that would give me new insights. I am keying in on these words you wrote to make my recommendation for the Haindl. I did like the look of the Tarot of Transformation when I saw it, but I found the deck to be too psychobabbly, and skewed toward the feminine. Though that may be your bent, I don't find it would be a good tarot "study deck." Haindl employs deep archetypal symbolism, mythology, and incorporates both i-ching and Nordic runes with deep understanding. Heck, even Joseph Martin used much of his symbology, word associations and i-ching/rune designations for his own deck, the Quest! Though many find the pictures "drab" or "depressing," it is a deep deck which can yield many years of study. The Tarot of Transformation was one that yielded me only a quick trade.

Cerulean	19 Jul 2004
I eagerly awaited for the deck, ordered and waited impatiently and read the book when the deck came. The book is nicely written for a 'self-study, feel-good' type of meditation. The card designs are painted by Willow Arleanea, who does many beautiful book covers and paintings for Lotus Designs. I had the cards and thought them very very pretty--like the pink and purple Guardians of Wisdom deck, similar to the pretty and misty colors of the Legends by Anne Marie Ferguson. I had all three decks...I thought I was attracted to the soft designs. And I gave them all away. If I had to have one of these pretty decks, I'd choose the Anne Marie Ferguson one, although some of the paintings seem to be hard for me to see details when there is low lighting at night. I've kept my Haindl, which is easy to look at, but some people find it grim. The yellow background is fine to me. But the Haindl is always an alternative to me, not a favorite. Do you need website examples to see more of Haindl's designs or the Willow Arleanea paintings? Regards Cerulean

Dark Inquisitor	19 Jul 2004
I love the Haindl - even the big yellow eye on the back !! Maybe Kittaine, you could pull some cards for each deck to get the Tarot's opinion on all this??

Kittaine	20 Jul 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Dark Inquisitor I love the Haindl - even the big yellow eye on the back !! Maybe Kittaine, you could pull some cards for each deck to get the Tarot's opinion on all this?? Awesome idea, D.I.! Here's what I got: What can the Haindl Tarot offer me? King of Wands, 2 of Wands What can the Tarot of Transformations offer me? Knave of Pentacles, King of Pentacles That is...odd, to say the least. Both Wands on one side and both pentacles on the other. Hmmm...@_@ Any ideas, guys? I think it's leaning towards the Haindl, but I'm not sure.

Tarot Sparrow	20 Jul 2004
It's up to you, but personally I adore the Tarot of Transformation. It's very psychological but also non-traditional, the meanings vary slightly from traditional meanings though the book is excellent and explains and draws connections well. I think the artwork is beautiful and the femininity doesn't bother me at all, I find nothing negative about the masculine figures. Despite the non-traditional meanings I find it to give stunningly accurate readings and the phrases on the cards often ring true for me. I don't have the Haindl yet so I couldn't tell you about that one, but I hope you get it figured out :)

13thFaeChylde	20 Jul 2004
I have the Tarot of Transformation, and love it. I usually save this deck for myself, but over the weekend a friend wanted a reading and chose this deck and it was amazing! So, now I have to share it from time to time. I love how the faces don't have distinct features, that helps me to see myself and others in the cards better.

lionette	20 Jul 2004
Another vote for Tarot of Transformation here! Got it recently as a gift and really like it, way more than anticipated! The book is so well-written and I'm enjoying exploring deeper with this deck. The cards are large and encourage me to spend more time with the art. It's certainly given me new perspectives on the cards, even in just a few days with it. I looked at the Haindel last week. Was drawn to the addition of I Ching and the companion books by Rachel Pollack, but the deck just didn't grab me. Too many things being tied in together for me. Good luck with your choice -- be sure to post to let us know which you've decided on! :)

Kittaine	20 Jul 2004
Ah...I first ordered the Haindl on Amazon. But then...after reading your opinions, I went back there and ordered the Tarot of Transformation too! Ack! I've never spent so much in one minute! :O Oh well, it's almost my birthday and I won't be having a party, so this'll serve as my "birthday bash." Dad'll understand :D I did a Haindl vs. Tarot of Transformation reading and posted it in Your Readings. You guys should read lark's interpretation in there. It was really helpful :D

Kissa	10 Oct 2004
so, Kittaine... it's been a while now: what do you think of these decks? i was searching for old threads about Haindl and found this one. of course, i went to check what the transformation tarot looks like and i got the same dilemma as you... did you ever use that Haindl or traded it immediately away? was it that scary?? ;) Kissa

Kittaine	11 Oct 2004
Kissa, the Tarot of Transformation has been opened. It's one of my favorite decks. It's great for giving advice! Absolutely awesome! In fact, I'd say it's THE deck for giving advice! Right up there with the Osho Zen! The Haindl Tarot, on the other hand...well, I wasn't expecting the pips to be unillustrated. They're really more Marseilles-based. And so there's a problem there cos I can't read Marseilles. I haven't even read the companion book for the Haindl. You'd have a hard time reading the cards without reading the book first. Come to think of it, I've never even read with the Haindl deck. But I don't wanna trade it away. I think it's worth studying...someday.

rosyelf	11 Oct 2004
I do have the Haindl. I am drawn to the wealth of symbols, the colour-tones-yes, some of it is melancholy, but that's allright- and the excellently-written books. Pollack spent a lot of time with Hermann Haindl going over the cards, so you get a real sense of his presence-a wise, compassionate soul, steeped in all the cultures he addresses in the deck, and respectful of all of them. I don't find the "system" difficult, and I'm okay about that eye(strange though it is), but I wouldn't look at the Haindl every day, so to speak. It IS deep. I don't always want that. I don't have the Transformational, yet, though I am tempted. If the book is psychobabbly, I might dispense with the book (or just not read it much), but I've seen enough scans to know I'd really like the cards themselves. I agree they're "feminine" and "comfy", so I wouldn't use them in lieu of the Haindl. Also, I wouldn't want all that pink and lavender EVERY day, though sometimes it would be just the thing. It is the more obviously therapeutic of the 2 decks, though I do find a deep healing energy in Haindl,too. From what you say, Kissaine, wanting a study deck AND something psychologically-orientated, you may find you really do need to acquire both. love and blessings, rosyelf

WolfSpirit	11 Oct 2004
rosyelf, I don't think you can get the Tarot of Transformation without the book. But I don't think the book is too psychobabbly ;) there is other info in it as well, for example for the Green Man (Emperor) more about the Green Man is explained. I haven't read the whole book yet - I think you don't really need it to explore the cards but it does have some interesting things in it. About the Haindl: I had it but just traded it. Some of the cards I liked, and the colours were so beautiful, but I just got no messages from the deck at all. For me it was just pretty pictures, and in the end that was not enough. That's just me though - I know it is main reading deck for some.

lunakasha	11 Oct 2004
I have enjoyed this thread..... I don't have either one of these decks, but have been tempted by both of them....the artwork is so appealing to me, they both look like excellent decks for meditation and the abstract artwork should allow for some interesting interpretations. :) Luna

Frank Hall	11 Oct 2004
I have both decks : Transformation is more about balancing energies than about psychobabble, but this is debatable. While it is feminine in the Taoist sense ( the book author wrote a prior book on the Tao), it includes native American influences too, and many animal and tree images. It's about creative receptivity, not assertive goal-demands. But no esoteric symbolic links. Art.

smokey	15 Oct 2004
I Just got Transformation a coupla' days ago; so haven't had enough time yet to do any real readings w/it...but find the artwork just beautiful! I love the NA overtures...but the back of the cards could stand to be a bit sturdier,(IMHO).

Xenias	16 Oct 2004
Hi Kittaine- I am glad that you said that you think the Haindl tarot it worth hanging on to. :) Please do! This is an excellent study deck. I just love this deck. However, I do not know it well enough to do readings from it. I will use it for my daily draw or a 3 card spread for myself. I think it will be a long time before I would read for others from it. It is so deep, so much knowledge to gain from this deck. Start reading the books when you have time. You will one day really appreciate this deck. Xenias

The Can't decide: Haindl or Tarot of Transformation? thread was originally posted on 19 Jul 2004 in the Tarot Decks board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Decks, or read more archived threads.