Just bought the Light and Shadow Tarot

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 27 Jul 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

The 78th Fool	27 Jul 2004
I've resisted this deck for a long time - which is rather unusual as a great admirer of Brian Williams who wrote the accompanying book. Colour has always been one of the most important factors for me in Tarot so the thought of a monochrome deck just didn't appeal. Having bought this yesterday I'm now having to eat my words. I won't try and describe my responses yet, I'm just too bowled over by the deck to be objective. I've done my first reading with it and although there were no great revelations It was just so easy to have a 2 way communication with these cards. Michael Goepferd's work is truly inspiring and I now know why Brian Williams was so keen to see it published. If you've got any thoughts on this deck, please do share them here. Chris. xx

Sulis	27 Jul 2004
I love this deck too. I like the way it uses the Thoth system but the minors are illustrated. My husband even wants a tattoo of The Hermit from this deck. The only problem I have with it is that the cards are so big - if there was a mini version I think it would be one of my favorite decks which is strange as I always go for colour too. Love Sulis xx

darwinia	27 Jul 2004
Ah Sulis I LOVE the big cards! That's one of the reasons I bought it, the shape is like no other deck. The first copy I got I felt so bowled over by the larger cards and such different imagery, it really felt special in-hand. Unfortunately I got a bum deck that had to be returned because of missing and misprinted cards. I waited nine weeks to get the new one and it's one of the best I think. I've done several small readings with it that were very accurate and the details in the deck kind of pop out and give you an intuitive response. I suppose that's a hackneyed phrase but itseems appropriate for this deck. I found the book excellent, and you can see the history of one artist championing another. I love that spirit of Brian Williams in this deck. Chris, most of my collection is bright decks with unusual artwork, so I too surprised myself with an attraction to this deck. I think it was the lino cuts, I am always keen on illustrative work, particularly woodcuts or lino cuts, and Michael's work is very bold and frank. I like that, no fluffy stuff.

Emily	27 Jul 2004
Like Sulis I'm not a big fan of black and white decks but I also don't like woodcut art so it was a big surprise when I saw this deck online here and liked it. It does come across as a Thoth/Rider Waite clone. And with it being black and white the images are powerful and so busy. I've done some nice readings with this deck but the size does put me off too. I have small hands and the deck is hard to shuffle but it is worth it. :)

Little Baron	27 Jul 2004
Yes, I love this deck as well. The 'Three of Wands' (I think it's that one) is my favourite - so calming. I lust admit to finding the size a little hard to work with but on the otherhand, if it was smaller, it wouldn't have as much imapct for me. There is not one card in this deck that I don't like, which is saying something, because in most, I do have one or two that niggle at me. Enjoy your deck, Chris. Yaboot

le pendu	27 Jul 2004
Oh... so many people who's opinion I highly regard! Well.. I had to click the "order with one-click button", didn't I? Will let you know what I think when it arrives next week. robert

Melvis	27 Jul 2004
This is still probably my all-time favorite deck. I never thought I'd like it, either, because I am a fan of big bold color. What is so intriguing about the deck for me is that they are so detailed, with a great many symbolic elements in each card, yet they are not too busy so as to be distracting. Always glad to hear of more fans of this wonderful deck! Peace, Melvis :TSTRE

brennamor	27 Jul 2004
I love the Light & Shadow Tarot. I haven't worked with it nearly as much as I would like but there is such depth and intensity packed in those black & white images - I love it.

Sillanza	28 Jul 2004
I just saw a really interesting black-and-white deck on a rerun of "Sex and the City." From all the descriptions, it sounds like it might have been the Light and Shadow deck. Do any of you actual owners know if it was?

The 78th Fool	26 Aug 2004
Update - Had this for a couple of weeks now and it has become one of my regular reading decks. I just find myself coming back to it time and again. I've come to love it because of its stunning artwork but also because it straddles neatly between the Rider and Thoth traditions - In my opinion it seems to combine the best of both. I find the Thoth itself really difficult to come to terms with, preferring to use such decks as the Cosmic Tribe or the Rohrig. This allows me some nice bits of the Thoth within the familiar context of my favourite type of deck. Chris. xx

Flavio	26 Aug 2004
I love the technique to "draw" the cards of this deck! carving the drawings in wood or plastic plates is a lot of detailed work, this technique which can also be seen in the World Spirit Tarot.

The 78th Fool	26 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Flavio I love the technique to "draw" the cards of this deck! carving the drawings in wood or plastic plates is a lot of detailed work, this technique which can also be seen in the World Spirit Tarot. I agree! For me, it makes these cards a modern day successor to the Marseilles Tarots and It's one of the reasons I love them. Chris. xx

lionette	27 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by The 78th Fool I've come to love it because of its stunning artwork but also because it straddles neatly between the Rider and Thoth traditions - In my opinion it seems to combine the best of both. I find the Thoth itself really difficult to come to terms with, preferring to use such decks as the Cosmic Tribe or the Rohrig. This allows me some nice bits of the Thoth within the familiar context of my favourite type of deck. Chris. xx This is also exactly what I like about Light & Shadow. Very accessible and so richly illustrated -- they are wonderful to study. I also found the companion book especially helpful with depth of meaning for the minors, since I've never had a RWS deck. A wonderful mix. This is one of the few decks I've never had a second thought about.

Fulgour	27 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by The 78th Fool Michael Goepferd's work is truly inspiring... I believe Michael created the 3 of Pentacles as a self-portrait. There's a 15 card spread that works very well for The Light and Shadow Tarot: 13-9-5_____4-8-12 ______2-1-3_____ 14-10-6____7-11-15 The way I read this for myself is: 2-1-3 show the present conditions 4-8-12 sources of assistance (+) 13-9-5 heedful promptings (-) 14-10-6 underlying influences 7-11-15 "the outcome" It's just so powerful to see the images working together like this.

anubis	27 Aug 2004
nv seen this deck be4... gt any link to a review of that deck?

SongDeva	27 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Fulgour 13-9-5_____4-8-12 ______2-1-3_____ 14-10-6____7-11-15 The way I read this for myself is: 2-1-3 show the present conditions 4-8-12 sources of assistance (+) 13-9-5 heedful promptings (-) 14-10-6 underlying influences 7-11-15 "the outcome" It's just so powerful to see the images working together like this. I like the idea of this spread. I'm a little confused about "heedful promptings": is this...challenges, issues to pay attention to and keep a sharp eye on?

Sulis	27 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by anubis nv seen this deck be4... gt any link to a review of that deck? Here's a review on Aeclectic. It's a lovely deck. http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/light-and-shadow/review.shtml Love Sulis xx

Fulgour	27 Aug 2004
I've seen this spread in several books, using the order shown first. But very often the position meanings are different than what they feel like when you see them. 13-9-5_____4 - 8-12 ______2-1-3_____ 14-10-6____7-11-15 If you are more comfortable with the last card being in the upper right hand position, place card 4 as follows: 12-8-4_____7-11-15 ______2-1-3_____ 13-9-5_____6-10-14 Each triptych has its own energy, and we all see things from our own uniquely intuitive perspective. Generally, this is how I would describe their meaning: 2-1-3 show the present conditions 4-8-12 sources of assistance (+) 13-9-5 heedful promptings (-) 14-10-6 underlying influences 7-11-15 "the outcome" But that should only represent a guidepost for you as a reader.

SongDeva	27 Aug 2004
Thanks, Fulgour, for the reworking which is worthy of consideration. But I literally don't undersand what is meant by the phrase "heedful promptings." Anyone?

le pendu	27 Aug 2004
Sounds like warnings of things that might have a negative effect to me. robert

Fulgour	27 Aug 2004
Heedful Promptings.

Ellie	27 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Fulgour There's a 15 card spread that works very well for The Light and Shadow Tarot: Fulgour, This is a great spread - The Light and Shadow deck is one of my main decks to read with, and from looking at the positions here, I can very much see it would be good working with the deck. I've jotted it down in my notebook and will look forward to try it out this weekend. Thank you so much for sharing. Be well, Ellie

Ellie	27 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by anubis nv seen this deck be4... gt any link to a review of that deck? anubis, Try this: http://www.advancenet.net/~jscole/tarotpostmodl.htm The first entry on this page is about the Light and Shadow deck and gives many different links to other reviews and pictures of the cards. Enjoy! Be well, Ellie

Trogon	28 Aug 2004
Chiming in to this thread a little late... ;) I picked up the Light and Shadow Tarot Tarot almost a year ago now. I fell in love with it immediately. The images, while based in tradition have a modern feel to them ... which doesn't make sense since they're created using a very old type of media (wood cuts). Hmm... maybe not entirely "modern", now that I think about it... in fact, I think the images have a kind of '70's or '60's feel to them (to me). In any case the images are very meaningful and have lots of symbolism in them. The book that comes with it, as has already been mentioned is excellent. One interesting tidbit... my original book was "faulty". About 3/4 of the way through the Minors, it restarted with the pages from the middle of the minors. But, I contacted the publishers (web site on the copyright page) and they immediately sent me a new book. The cards are rather large, but not so large that I can't shuffle them. The card stock is slightly thinner than some decks, so does need some careful handling. Overall, it's an excellent deck and I highly recommend it to anyone who's interested in a black and white deck.

Cerulean	28 Aug 2004
The Light and Shadow is a great deck. My copy is a little quirky and woven with personal stories... Grab your deck and hope you see this too: 4 of Swords The Boy is sad and contemplating the illness of his mother. He asked her what she wanted to make her happy. She lay back on her bed and spoke about her memories of when she was healthy. 10 of Wands She had been so stressed and tired. Her husband had gone and cut back the flowering rosemary that autumn, saying the big sticks were overpowering the other garden herbs. The herb merchant would give him a good price for the huge stalks. He was a thorough and good man, slightly too methodical. He had chopped up all the rosemary, even yanked up the potted plants and sold it all. He gave her the money while he was away on a trading trip to the city, so she would 'have no cares.' But here she was, ill and stressed, not able to sleep. Moon She listened to the odd sounds at night, worried about the dogs and wolves, wondering about things that had no answer.."Why does the lobster emerge from the sea when it has food aplenty at its home in the ocean?" She asked the boy. "Why does Daddy and Uncle go to the City when we could buy food here?" asked the boy to his mother. "I don't know why the lobster wanders," said the boy. "But they do." "I don't know why the men go away," said the mother. "But they will. Even you will go away when you grow." Five of Cups. So the woman was fretting after the men and things she could not change. An abundance of money and her son and the garden should have satisfied: but she was tired and the days and nights were too long, too much the same. So she dragged through her days with head and heart hurts and the boy hurts as well, because he loves her. Five of Swords Because the boy tired her so with his questions, she said she would be better 'if only we had some rosemary like before." She said. "I could cut some for storing my linen, we could sprinkle some on cooking our potatoes--it would be both sweet and savory. I only need the rosemary that your Dad dug up. Then everything would be fine." The boy ran to his granddad's house by the shore, to see if there was any in the garden. No rosemary. But when he was walking, he saw five dragonflies together and thought it must be a good sign. He followed them, for dragonflies fly like hummingbirds, on a known trail, for all their zipping and zinging. Ace of Wands And there they were, the flower of inspiration! Of three plants, the boy dug up one very carefully. Six of Cups And when the boy brought the plant to his mother, she had to smile. He was so serious and she saw for the first time the dried tears and smudges under his eyes. She saw the scratches on his arms and did not say anything more about her worries. Instead she told the boy as she laundered the linen for storage how carefully she would cut the small stocks of rosemary. The plant did so well, it was flourishing as she trimmed it carefully. And as she put it in pots, it grew in abundance and yet was contained--she had more than enough for soups, stews, linen, and even made up bouquets for the neighbors. All this activity made for happiness and memory. The Empress The house closets was smelling of fresh-air-dried linen and sweet of rosemary. The porch smelled of drying herbs, including rosemary in the bouquets. The house smelled of savory as the potatoes and carrots cooked with rosemary and thyme. When the Father came home, he was happy at the activity and saw the error of his too-meticulous pruning. "So you did find lots to do," he said, bringing in more money bags and goods for her, "Did you miss me much?" "Oh like a lobster would miss it's sea-cave, " she replied and she and the boy laughed and laughed. Father looked from one to the other and saw he would have to catch up on the family news and jokes. "Glad to be home," he said, looking anew at the woman and the boy, and taking off his hat gingerly. "I see I've been away too long." I have other stories about this deck...but I think this will do for now...my original deck is a reprint with two Prince of Swords... Thanks for the thread! Cerulean P.S. I found an online link to the original story about "The Jar of Rosemary" that I had read decades ago--it involves a prince, queen, a golden ball...it looks like I changed it to reflect my odd observations with the Light and Shadow and my use of rosemary at home. We have it in pots because it took over a central garden plot. Please excuse that the sponsor of this version is a religious organization...I wanted readers to know what I remember and what I changed in my own quirkiness... http://www.backtothebible.org/gateway/today/18542

Cerulean	28 Aug 2004
The scan in the book is tiny. If anyone sees a scan on the web for the Queen of Cups in the Light and Shadow, that would save me the price of a new deck. My sister bought this for me two years ago and it's only now I had time and space to appreciate this deck. I took up half of the den' floor to lay out the deck and my husband asked if I was making a tarot collage rug for study. I've been known to do such odd things, so it's not out of the realm of possibility... Thanks in advance! Regards, Cerulean

Trogon	29 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Cerulean If anyone sees a scan on the web for the Queen of Cups in the Light and Shadow, that would save me the price of a new deck. My sister bought this for me two years ago and it's only now I had time and space to appreciate this deck. I took up half of the den' floor to lay out the deck and my husband asked if I was making a tarot collage rug for study. I've been known to do such odd things, so it's not out of the realm of possibility... Thanks in advance! Cerulean... You can go to the publisher's web site; http://www.innertraditions.com/index.jsp and click on the "Contact Us" link. There are phone numbers and e-mail addresses for contacting them. "Orders and Customer Service" are right at the top of the list. I had a problem with the book that came with the deck and they replaced it with no cost to me. Try contacting them, they might be very willing to send you a replacement for the Queen of Cups.

darwinia	29 Aug 2004
Mari, I had to post this for you as it turned up in my Poet's Corner Knowledge Card for the day: Time has an end, they say sea-walls are worn away by wind and the sea-spray, not the herb, rosemary. This was written by the poet H.D. (Hilda Doolittle) around 1957. I've never heard of her but she was briefly engaged to Ezra Pound and underwent psychoanalysis with Sigmund Freud himself apparently. She was also a renowned translator of the fragments of love poems by Sappho which I discussed in relation to the Mantegna Tarot in the Oracle forum under Poet's Corner Knowledge Cards. I'm getting some mileage from these simple cards. The other thing I wanted to tell you is that your story reminds me a bit of C.S. Lewis's book "The Magician's Nephew" from the Chronicles of Narnia. There is a scene where Digory brings his mother an apple from Narnia to cure her illness, for she has been languishing in bed for some time. Then he plants the core and the apple tree that grows is eventually cut down by Professor Kirk, who makes a wardrobe for his spare room out of it. Remember the magic!! Doesn't Rosemary smell wonderful?

Fulgour	29 Aug 2004
Selected Poetry of H. D. (Hilda Doolittle; 1886-1961) http://eir.library.utoronto.ca/rpo/display/poet99.html The threat of being labeled lesbian became a tool used against the New Woman, and the bisexual writer Hilda Doolittle, known as H.D., responded to that threat by obscuring her depiction of lesbian sexuality in her novel HERmione or leaving more explicit texts like the fragment Paint It Today unpublished. However, because her poetry was less obviously autobiographical, H.D. felt more freedom in exploring same-sex relationships in that genre. http://www.poetryconference.stir.ac.uk/HD39.html

Cerulean	29 Aug 2004
came from a Scholastic book and I'm trying to find out if it's Hans Christian Andersen. It was originally set at Xmas time and the boy exchanged the toy he loved the best, a golden ball, for the Jar of Rosemary. I cook and air linens with rosemary, so I wrote the part of the Mom with a reminder for me to enjoy the garden growth....and it came from seeing the Light and Shadow...beautiful illustrations. It's fun when classic tales remind us of something else! I started a "What Pictures Do For You" thread to see if I can hear more about this topic... I had laid out the Light and Shadow on the den floor, trying to find out which card I was missing yesterday. I also wasn't feeling very well, but I am glad I went to Nephews and Lab-Sitting Night yesterday. I reread the Magician's Nephew recently and remembered that Aslan allowed Digory to pick a second apple after the temptation scene--very Garden of Edenesque with the "son of Adam" and "Daughter of Eve". I do see what you are saying, although Hans Christian Andersen lately seems on my mind. And Trogon, thanks for the link. Regards, Cerulean P.S. I forgot to say, HD was a long time favorite. By the way, I thought she was in Nine Gates of Poetry---but it turns out Ezra Pound and Noel Stock translated the poem that I thought in the book by Jane Hirshfield---fun cross-threads! (Corrected for attributions)

baba-prague	29 Aug 2004
Oh goodness, I NEVER expected anyone here on AT to begin talking about HD. I had a friend (who oddly enough became a colleague a few years later - we were both uni lecturers) who did her PHd thesis on HD. So HD was for years a topic I heard about - though I only knew a little about her I have to admit. HD seems to have really been remembered about in the last few years, after a period of obscurity. Anyway, sorry, don't want to derail this thread...

Fulgour	29 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by baba-prague Anyway, sorry, don't want to derail this thread... HD extensively studied Greek religion and mythology as well as spiritualism, numerology, Tarot, and the Kabbalah. Fulgour ___________________________________ edited to add photo http://andrejkoymasky.com/liv/fam/biod2/dool2a.jpg hd :from andrej koymasky site

baba-prague	29 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Fulgour HD extensively studied Greek religion and mythology as well as spiritualism, numerology, Tarot, and the Kabbalah. Fulgour I knew about her involvement with Greek mythology, but not about Tarot. How interesting - I think maybe I need to read something?

Fulgour	29 Aug 2004
You are as gold as the half-ripe grain that merges to gold again, as white as the white rain that beats through the half-opened flowers of the great flower tufts thick on the black limbs of an Illyrian apple bough. Can honey distill such fragrance As your bright hairó For your face is as fair as rain, yet as rain that lies clear on white honey-comb, lends radiance to the white wax, so your hair on your brow casts light for a shadow. H. D.

baba-prague	29 Aug 2004
I meant a book or article about her interest in tarot. I didn't expect a poem - but it's better. Thank-you.

Fulgour	29 Aug 2004
...just my way of saying hello - don't know if many biographers would dare mention tarot... have a grand day :laugh:

darwinia	29 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Cerulean P.S. I forgot to say, HD was a long time favorite. Jane Hirshfield's Nine Gates of Poetry writes beautifully of several topics--one includes an H.D. poem. My poetry teacher also spoke of HD as well---fun cross-threads! I love tangents in the sprintime, I love tangents in the fall..... Mari, I have the Jane Hirshfield book and I can't remember HD at all. I am scandalized since I read the book twice--for some reason assimilation of HD seems to have not occurred. I was too busy reading and rereading her chapter on translation, which bowled me over and left me gasping for breath and comparing translations of Beaudelaire. Thanks also to Fulgour for the links--I will have to explore further. (I am aghast that Karen didn't realize we are all up on our poetry ) See, there's something spooky about these Poet's Corner cards, I tell you. Look at this thread--light and shadow and I could have turned the card yesterday but I left it because I wanted to ruminate on the Countee Cullen card. So I turn it today and boom....rosemary......HD.......light and shadow in the HD poem posted by Fulgour.

Imagemaker	29 Aug 2004
Wonderful thread! I read HD's poetry a lot in the 90s when I was working on a grad lit degree. Back to your regularly scheduled tarot discussion . . .

Cerulean	29 Aug 2004
the attribution. it was Ezra Pound, actually, who translated an Egyptian poem which I thought HD did. My poetry teacher has spoken and given us poems attributed to HD and the Ezra Pound connection fertilized a silly link in my odd imagination. I'll send you a pm with the information. Regards, Cerulean P.S. THANK YOU, 78th Fool for inspiring a whole Light and Shadow Story and Poetry Thread. I now also am tucking the Nine Gates of Poetry beside my Light and Shadow tarot and book this month (and will keep an eye out for an HD reference).

The Just bought the Light and Shadow Tarot thread was originally posted on 27 Jul 2004 in the Tarot Decks board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Decks, or read more archived threads.