EEK! MY GILDED HAS JUST ARRIVED!! I'm so exited!!

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 04 Aug 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

blackroseivy	04 Aug 2004
Yep, I opened it up & everything Lark said is in here - this is *one* box from Llewellyn that's a keeper, fer sher! I just put my "Ex Libris" stamp on the white box, like I always do - my Sacred Circle was entirely wrapped in handmade paper & decorated, plus I lined it with black chipboard. I don't want to have to go to all *that* trouble for my 2 new decks, so I'm happy that this one comes with its own bag! About the deck: Looking through the cards, I am uniformly impressed & pleased (both) with the artwork. I absolutely *love* the quasi-medieval costumry - makes me feel right at home! The Eight of Swords looks more dreamy than nightmarish, but then this is a dreamy deck. The 5 of Pentacles is strikingly lovely in this respect, too. All of the people are lovely & beautifully rendered. I have high hopes for the book! With this *&* the "SoF's", I really have my work cut out for me!!! :D <- gleeful grin

13thFaeChylde	04 Aug 2004
OOOHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Did you order yours from Tarot Garden? If so, did it ship on Monday? 'Cause if you did, that means mine could be at home, waiting for me!!!!!!!!!!!!! Congrats on your new deck(s)...aint life grand?! :)

Mimers	04 Aug 2004
I got mine today too! What a gorgeous deck! I can't wait to use it!

blackroseivy	04 Aug 2004
My deck came from Amazon, I'm afraid - but to make up for that, I'll give 'em a fairly large sale when they find the Alchemical for me!

13thFaeChylde	04 Aug 2004
Hubby just called to say I have THREE packages waiting for me, and that one is from IOWA!!! Thank you Jeanette!! (watches the clock.... ...tick tock...tick tock tock tick...tock tick) How am I supposed to wait till 5:00 to leave? 30 minute drive home Prepare for 6:00 phone interview It's going to be 8 or 9:00 before I get to open the box :eek:

blackroseivy	04 Aug 2004
Oh you poor thing! Well, at least you have a good reason not to be there when it arrives, etc...

morandia	04 Aug 2004
mine arrived yesterday - YEA Tarot Garden!!!! it is the most beautiful deck I now own. My only criticism is that some of the faces look too photographic for me. It's a minority of them but..... It is still my favorite Deck. The pentacles are stunning. I've never seen any done quite like this. WOW!

tao51	04 Aug 2004
This is a beautiful deck. I am so glad that I ordered from Tarot Garden!--Tao

Keslynn	04 Aug 2004
I got mine too and I've been dancing around the house with pure glee (I also got a shipment of books and the Baroque Bohemain Cats Tarot)!!! The Gilded is so beautiful. I love the jewel tones. I also like the fact that it's RWS based enough to be able to read out of the box, but there's a different perspective to make it interesting to read with. Not to mention, some of the most expressive and easy to read court cards I've ever seen. Kudos to you, Ciro!!! And kudos to Tarotgarden for getting it to me fast! :) Kes

Pook	04 Aug 2004
Uuggghhhh.....why ever did I ask for media mail?????? :( Well...I guess I can just live vicariously thru you guys til mine gets here.... So, who's done a reading with it yet?

Phantom Goddess	05 Aug 2004
Ohh, I'm so jealous of all of you. I am dying for this deck. I keep hearing fab reviews of it and I just can't help my self. I'll get it soon though :)

Majecot	05 Aug 2004
I got mine yesterday also :D:D:D How exciting.. it is even more beautiful in my hands than on the Web, Lark you are soooooo lucky to have been holding this wonderful deck for so long. And your right about the smell, it does smell like acrylics ;) And yes I will be keeping this box as well, the bag will only be temporary as I like something with a bit more substance to protect my cards, but it was a nice bonus. I haven't had a chance to read the book yet, but I do like the size of it. *Majecot runs to check her stash of material to find something suitable*

mercenary30	05 Aug 2004
What a sweet deck!! I think I have a new favorite Death card!!! Plus I had to take a pause to look at Temperance...... hehehe :D

13thFaeChylde	05 Aug 2004
Ohh, that is my favorite Temperance ever! She is mucho caliente :smoker: Since Temperance corresponds with my sign, Sag, I finally feel like I've found the card that I can relate to. I love the color of her hair and dress.

blackroseivy	05 Aug 2004
Not me - I don't want to read with it until I have thoroughly read the book, same with SoF's - I've got my work cut out for me!!

cirom	05 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by 13thFaeChylde Ohh, that is my favorite Temperance ever! She is mucho caliente :smoker: Hey you guys, can you take it easy with this Temperece thing....thats my wife you're talking about, and if she gets to read these posts she'll either charge me for modelling fees or demand breakfast in bed every weekend from now through Christmas.

Moonbow*	05 Aug 2004
Hey Cirom So that IS you in the Magician (with long hair) is it? :D Any idea when the Gilded will be available here in the homeland? Mine has been on pre-order with Amazon UK and they still insist it's not published yet.......

cirom	05 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Moonbow* Hey Cirom So that IS you in the Magician (with long hair) is it? :D Hmmmmm !!!!!!!!! Regarding availability in the homeland I'm really not in the know abouit these things I'm afraid. I think I heard or read something about the first week of September, but now I can't even remember where I got that from.

13thFaeChylde	05 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by cirom Hey you guys, can you take it easy with this Temperece thing....thats my wife you're talking about, and if she gets to read these posts she'll either charge me for modelling fees or demand breakfast in bed every weekend from now through Christmas. Lucky man!! :P

Cerulean	05 Aug 2004
These two models seem similar. Which is actually nice when doing a storylike spread, because similar motifs or models work well when I use the Ananda to map a movie story that I like. The models are very beautifully portrayed in unique poses, so I may be only seeing a filtering tint or hair color that seems similar. Nice additional way of looking through a deck to familiarize oneself--do some of the models seem similar to you? What story would they seem to tell you if you laid them out together...I like to do this with my other art decks... Regards, Cerulean

Keslynn	05 Aug 2004
I agree that you're wife is beautiful, Ciro. And shouldn't she get breakfast in bed anyway? ;) I really like the dynamic pose of the Temperance card. I feel like it conveys the meaning much better than the static standing angel. :) Kes

Tarot Sparrow	05 Aug 2004
I got my deck from Tarot Garden on Wednesday morning (thanks Jeannette and Umbrae :D) and it's GORGEOUS! Isn't it?? Damnnn Ciro. The bag was a nice touch--though personally I like more structure to my bags (and I make them all myself :D) so the Gilded now sleeps in the beautiful bag I made for my Quest (the deck that just isn't working out and I'm going to trade). The black bag is excellent for my new set of runes, though! The cards are all beautiful, I especially love the High Priestess and the Knight of Wands--not to mention all the other knights! They're so otherworldly. Beautiful colours in this deck--excellent artwork. I'm as impressed as I hoped I'd be! :)

The 78th Fool	06 Aug 2004
MINE ARRIVED THIS MORNING!!!!!!!!!!!! I thought when I received my commercial deck that I'd honourably retire my limited edition from its reading duties. Now I don't think I will. Both are gorgeous in very different ways and I can see that I'll gravitate between one or the other as the fancy takes me. It's been really fun comparing the differences between the two. Even a cursory glance shows that I've got four different cards in my limited deck. I'm going to have a proper scan when I've got time later! In the meantime - the best present the postman's delivered in ages! Thanks Jeanette for speedy delivery!

Kittaine	06 Aug 2004
What is it about this deck? I keep hearing rave reviews about it, but when I look at the scans, pffft...The symbolisms don't even appeal to me (another RWS clone with its own take). And the lines...too straight. The colors...too...shiny...like robots. I'm confused. What do you see in this deck?

September Pixie	06 Aug 2004
I still haven't gotten mine *pout-pout-pout* Kittaine, different strokes for different folks I guess pretty much sums it up :) I'm a digital artist (I can work with any medium but I prefer digital painting), and I not only love and respect the time it takes to make something like this, but the added vibrant colors, traditional symbols mixed here and there make this deck very recognizible for me, and quite honestly, it has the prettiest fool card I have ever seen!! I could give you a billion reasons why I love this deck :)

Mimers	06 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Kittaine What is it about this deck? I keep hearing rave reviews about it, but when I look at the scans, pffft...The symbolisms don't even appeal to me (another RWS clone with its own take). And the lines...too straight. The colors...too...shiny...like robots. I'm confused. What do you see in this deck? I like the jewel tones he uses in the deck. I also like the nice clean lines. Digital artwork is not for everyone though. I tend to go more with decks showing very limited symbols, otherwise they are too busy to read with. I prefer decks that are Rider Waite Clones because that is the deck I learned with. I don't want to learn a whole new system. Why should I when the Rider Waite works so wonderfully for me. I love the colors and I think the artwork is phenominal. That is why I like this deck. It is not my favorite, but it will not collect dust either. Not for everyone I suppose.

The 78th Fool	06 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Kittaine What is it about this deck? I keep hearing rave reviews about it, but when I look at the scans, pffft...The symbolisms don't even appeal to me (another RWS clone with its own take). And the lines...too straight. The colors...too...shiny...like robots. I'm confused. What do you see in this deck? As Pixie says - different strokes!! The Thoth Tarot is a really good example for me. It's one of the most universally celebrated decks of all but I just can't work with it. I love several decks that use the Thoth system, such as the Quest and the Cosmic Tribe but as soon as I pick up a THoth itself and see that 666 inscription on the ace of disks I just go cold!!! In this case, too much or Crowley and Harris's symbolism is either alien to me or just straightforwardly opposed to my worldview. However, it's an artistic masterpiece and it can't be a poor deck when you consider just how many people use it! For me, I love the richness, depth and solidity of the Gilded artwork. Technically it's just so far advanced and artistically it transports me into a world of fantasy without becoming twee or sentimental. We may not share a love for the Gilded Tarot but I noticed on your profile that one of your favourites is the Celtic Tarot - now there's something we can agree on! I don't know which one you've got - mine's the Courtney Davis/ Harper Collins one. Whichever it is and there are several, I usually go weak at the knees for most things Celtic. A really good one I've just seen is Kayne's: http://www.geocities.com/kaynes_celtic_tarot I hope this gets published someday because it's really something else. Chris. xx

contrascarpe	06 Aug 2004
I picked up my copy of the Gilded last night at the shop I read at. With anticipation, Gardener and I drove to our local Starbucks (alas, yes, due to her influence, I have regressed into an S-bucks zombie) and eagerly opened the box ...... Welllllll, I was a bit disappointed (I don't want to speak here for Gardener) ..... true, the images are vibrant and many of the cards had an "Ooh" and "Aah" vibe to them. However, my first reaction is that the card stock was very flimsy. It reminded me of the Shapeshifter stock - when I first got that deck, I noticed fading and imperfections in the coloring. I had the same sense with this deck. My next reaction is how similar it was to the Quest. Not to say that I don't like the Quest - I find many of the cards to be nice, but the deck itself to be overly ambitious. Overall, I tend to like the Gilded more than the Quest, but like Kittaine, not sure what the fuss is all about. I hesitated posting this because Ciro is here on the boards and I didn't want this to appear to be a slam. The love and hard work is evident and I applaud him for that. And, with time, I am sure I will love the deck - I truly feel I could read with this deck and may offer up a reading soon to give it a whirl. But my initial reaction was one of disappointment, especially in a week where I received this one and the Baroque Bohemian Cats ...... that is a hard act to follow (just hoping the Folchi deck I am expecting doesn't disappoint). Dan

baba-prague	06 Aug 2004
I feel I have to say this, as I know it's sometimes difficult for a designer to say much about their own work without sounding defensive. But I just want to point out (though everyone knows of course) that with a large publisher the designer will get NO control over issues like card stock and print quality. If these things are not quite up to expectations then probably no-one is more frustrated than the designer themselves. In no way does it reflect on the designer, or on their care. (not exactly sure why I so much want to jump in and say this, except that Alex and I had a long conversation last night about how hard it is if you put in your all and then get a bit let down at some stage in the process - in our case we have just agreed with our packer that they will unpack 1000 decks as we have found three or four so far with a card missing - which was somehow disproportionately worrying). I haven't yet seen the Gilded so I can't make any judgements of course.

contrascarpe	06 Aug 2004
baba-prague - I totally agree with this, and I meant to bring that out in my post. In fact, I have a feeling that the special edition Gilded that Ciro put out is vastly superior than the Llewellyn. I was hoping my post conveyed that somewhat. I cannot criticize any deck that is produced with the love and care this one had in it (and I apologize if the comparison to yours may have embarrassed you a little ..... I am just so taken with it). I can see over time that the Gilded will be one of my top decks - it already has a place in our newly formed "Tarot Altar", which Gardener assembled with love (we have combined my 70+ decks with her 40+ decks). I do commend Ciro on a brilliant deck - one thing I DO like about it ...... I am not a big fan of photo montage decks - this is one of those decks which doesn't FEEL like it fits in that genre. That is why it already has moved ahead on my list above the Quest and the Sacred Circle. The card I was drawn to immediately was the Ten of Swords - it was nice to see a figure captured without the swords sticking out of his back. Dan Quote: Originally posted by baba-prague I feel I have to say this, as I know it's sometimes difficult for a designer to say much about their own work without sounding defensive. But I just want to point out (though everyone knows of course) that with a large publisher the designer will get NO control over issues like card stock and print quality. If these things are not quite up to expectations then probably no-one is more frustrated than the designer themselves. In no way does it reflect on the designer. I haven't yet seen the Gilded so I can't make any judgements of course.

latinmoon	06 Aug 2004
We all have our opinions and preferences regarding the artistic merits of our decks, thats what makes these forums so interesting. So I respect that some may not share my absolute love of this deck (both LE and mass version) but I do feel its misleading to describe it as merely abother RWS clone, for it most certainly contains sufficient new touches and interpretations to be simply dismissed as such. As far as Kittain's comments of the lines being too straight, I don't actually understand what that means. It does'nt look like a computer drawn deck to me. Take a good look at say Temperence, does she look like a robot .........??? Personally I have no time for all these silly novelty decks with strange themes that seem to have been created simply to try something new. Give me a deck with reasonably familiar images that both I and my customers can relate to, and if like the Gilded it can be beautifully drawn, add something new without being so "out there" that I'm forced to learn every artists personal whim, then even better.

contrascarpe	06 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by latinmoon I do feel its misleading to describe it as merely abother RWS clone, for it most certainly contains sufficient new touches and interpretations to be simply dismissed as such Perhaps people are overusing the word "clone". Any deck which is completely familiar with RWS is RWS-"like". Personally, I enjoy an RWS-like deck with subtle differences. When I read, I don't mind being reminded of the RWS images for familiarity but LOVE subtle differences which add to the card and trigger new ideas in my readings. Quote: Take a good look at say Temperence, does she look like a robot .........??? I'm glad you brought up Temperance. As I was going through the deck, card by card, there were several which really jumped out at me. Unfortunately without the deck at my side, I couldn't remember all of them. I do know I liked the Hermit but I must admit, I was particulary drawn by Temperance. The fire erupting from one of the cups really had an impact on me. Quote: Personally I have no time for all these silly novelty decks with strange themes that seem to have been created simply to try something new. Give me a deck with reasonably familiar images that both I and my customers can relate to Depends on how out there the new themes are. I like a deck not afraid to take chances. One of my personal favorites is the Tarot of the Imagination because it allows me to use that - my imagination. It speaks to me on many levels. And I also find that the more foreign a deck is to my customer, the better the reading. If they have had many readings with the same style of deck (aka, RWSlike), they tend to form their own opinion based on what someone else told them before and really interrupts the flow of any intuitive images I receive. I found my best readings have come from "novelty decks". Dan

cirom	06 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by contrascarpe96 I hesitated posting this because Ciro is here on the boards and I didn't want this to appear to be a slam. Hi Dan, and anyone else for that matter, please don't concern yourself on that score. As any creative person, its very satisfying to read compliments about one's work. But all opinions and observations are equally received with interest, and as appropriate, to be learned from for the future. I certainly didn't interpret it as a slam. Having said that, of course I'm glad that in general you like the deck. Regards Ciro

latinmoon	06 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by contrascarpe96 If they have had many readings with the same style of deck (aka, RWSlike), they tend to form their own opinion based on what someone else told them before and really interrupts the flow of any intuitive images I receive. I found my best readings have come from "novelty decks". Dan I have to admit, you have a good point there. But its just that for me they are just that "novelties" that seem to be mere personal indulgences of the artist, which is ok I guess, but of little use other than collecting. I don't want to mention any specific decks as it is my personal opinion, but hypothetically how can you give a comprehensive reading that may have to deal with serious issues with say a "Nickelodeon" deck. (just made that up, I hope there isn't one :-)

Jeannette	06 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by contrascarpe96 ...I found my best readings have come from "novelty decks". Dan, honey... why haven't you posted to my thread calling for feedback on such decks? I need your input! :* http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28985 Sorry for the digression... we now return you to your regularly scheduled Gilded Tarot discussion... ;) -- Jeannette The Tarot Garden

13thFaeChylde	06 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Kittaine What is it about this deck? I keep hearing rave reviews about it, but when I look at the scans, pffft...The symbolisms don't even appeal to me (another RWS clone with its own take). And the lines...too straight. The colors...too...shiny...like robots. I'm confused. What do you see in this deck? Kittaine, here's what I like about the Gilded: ~ the colors are very vivid. the candlelight from the candleabra on the 6 of Pentacles seems to be glowing. the man's robe shimmers and seems to be fluid, capable of movement. the gold seems to be just that...gold ~ the attention to detail. again, on the six of pentacles (just happened to be the card I turned over to comment on) the crackling effect on the columns is very distinct ~ the use of actual pentagons for the pentacles suit ~ the mixing of mystical and machinery ~ the amazingly beautiful women :P ~ oh, and the guys aren't too shabby themselves ~ the Knights...they just rock those are a few of my reasons. I hope to read with it before the weekend is through.

Kittaine	06 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Mimers I like the jewel tones he uses in the deck. I also like the nice clean lines. Digital artwork is not for everyone though. I tend to go more with decks showing very limited symbols, otherwise they are too busy to read with. I prefer decks that are Rider Waite Clones because that is the deck I learned with. I don't want to learn a whole new system. Why should I when the Rider Waite works so wonderfully for me. I love the colors and I think the artwork is phenominal. That is why I like this deck. It is not my favorite, but it will not collect dust either. Not for everyone I suppose. The Gilded is a pretty deck, but I don't see what's all the fuss about? lol. I don't know. Maybe it's just that I equate great digital work to something that looks like Final Fantasy 8, 9, 10 and the FF movie too. Anything that doesn't look like SquareSoft material just isn't good enough for me. Speaking of which, they should have an FF-inspired deck. That would be a DREAM!

cirom	06 Aug 2004
Dear Kittaine, I've read your comments with interest, and absolutely respect your opinions and preferences. However I feel I must clarify some issues, not as the artist of the Gilded, but general technical ones that are relavent both to your comments but also to many other threads especially in the deck creation forums. As I also own a graphic design company, lecture on digital imagery at the Art Institute, and have received various Photoshop awards I feel qualified in offering my personal opinion, which is as follows There is a lot of misconception about the whole issue of digital art. Various programs can generate, or render increasingly sophisticated and photorealistic imagery (Final Fantasy as you mentioned being perfect examples) however the quality that you refer to derives as much from mathematics and raw computing power as any human artistic input. 3D software such as Maya, Bryce and Poser, image editing software such as Photoshop can also be used by people who might not necessarily even be technically good at drawing or painting to nevertheless produce some very artistic and creative images. This for me is digital art for want of any better description, and very often looks "computer like" as a result, and many Aeclectic members have commented for and against this look. Other uses avoid this artificial perfect look and produce different results and we are blessed with wonderfull tarot decks as a result of it.i.e Tarot of Prague, Bohemian Cats, etc etc. In my case while I do indeed produce my illustrations with a computer, using a pen and tablet, so technically speaking, yes they are digital, the actual process is very traditional and similar in approach to my pre "digital" days. I produce the image literally with a pen (albeit digital) in my hand. The line, shadow, highlight, reflection, texture or whatever is there because I put it there not because a computer algorythm has calculated that its should be there. So my point is that like every other medium or artistic style, it can and will be disliked by some, thats fine, but let it at least be judged in the correct context. Not as a comparison to Final Fantasy which is like putting me in the same ring as Mike Tyson. No contest and the result is 10 of wands,

Kittaine	06 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by cirom Dear Kittaine, I've read your comments with interest, and absolutely respect your opinions and preferences. However I feel I must clarify some issues, not as the artist of the Gilded, but general technical ones that are relavent both to your comments but also to many other threads especially in the deck creation forums. As I also own a graphic design company, lecture on digital imagery at the Art Institute, and have received various Photoshop awards I feel qualified in offering my personal opinion, which is as follows There is a lot of misconception about the whole issue of digital art. Various programs can generate, or render increasingly sophisticated and photorealistic imagery (Final Fantasy as you mentioned being perfect examples) however the quality that you refer to derives as much from mathematics and raw computing power as any human artistic input. 3D software such as Maya, Bryce and Poser, image editing software such as Photoshop can also be used by people who might not necessarily even be technically good at drawing or painting to nevertheless produce some very artistic and creative images. This for me is digital art for want of any better description, and very often looks "computer like" as a result, and many Aeclectic members have commented for and against this look. Other uses avoid this artificial perfect look and produce different results and we are blessed with wonderfull tarot decks as a result of it.i.e Tarot of Prague, Bohemian Cats, etc etc. In my case while I do indeed produce my illustrations with a computer, using a pen and tablet, so technically speaking, yes they are digital, the actual process is very traditional and similar in approach to my pre "digital" days. I produce the image literally with a pen (albeit digital) in my hand. The line, shadow, highlight, reflection, texture or whatever is there because I put it there not because a computer algorythm has calculated that its should be there. So my point is that like every other medium or artistic style, it can and will be disliked by some, thats fine, but let it at least be judged in the correct context. Not as a comparison to Final Fantasy which is like putting me in the same ring as Mike Tyson. No contest and the result is 10 of wands, Cirom, thanks for explaining. So what I'm getting from this is, the technique you used is a bit old and traditional compared to what they usually use in...well, for lack of a better comparison, Final Fantasy? (Even Shrek's digital artwork leaves me cold) Although decks like the Gilded and Quest Tarot look pretty, I'm one of those people who find it somewhat cold and artificial. I've yet to encounter a fully "digital" deck that invokes the same emotions as screenshots of some computer games out there. I understand that you put hard work into the Gilded, and you did a great job. I hope someday you'll create another deck that would cater to people with my tastes. :D

cirom	06 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Kittaine Cirom, thanks for explaining. So what I'm getting from this is, the technique you used is a bit old and traditional compared to what they usually use in...well, for lack of a better comparison, Final Fantasy? First of all if you're based in the Philipines, what are doing awake at this hour :-) Secondly without getting too technical. The high end digital images such as those that appeal to you, start with a wire frame structure of the face or object. The computer is then instructed to cover that structure with a surface that has the colour texture etc of say human skin. That the light source will be say a red light and coming from a particular direction at a particular strength etc etc. The results depending on how sophisticated the instructions are and computers number crunching capacity is either obviously plastic and false i.e. Toy Story, or scarily realistic Final Fantasy. My technique is not so much old as a deliberate choice, I simply like to paint it myself rather than push a keybord instruction that says "render". But you have a point I must admit. After having spent so many hours on an image and knowing that technology exists that would have done it quicker and "subjectively" better , it does cause you to question your motives or sanity. Oh well it keeps me out of trouble I guess.

OakDragon	06 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by cirom First of all if you're based in the Philipines, what are doing awake at this hour :-) Secondly without getting too technical. The high end digital images such as those that appeal to you, start with a wire frame structure of the face or object. The computer is then instructed to cover that structure with a surface that has the colour texture etc of say human skin. That the light source will be say a red light and coming from a particular direction at a particular strength etc etc. The results depending on how sophisticated the instructions are and computers number crunching capacity is either obviously plastic and false i.e. Toy Story, or scarily realistic Final Fantasy. My technique is not so much old as a deliberate choice, I simply like to paint it myself rather than push a keybord instruction that says "render". But you have a point I must admit. After having spent so many hours on an image and knowing that technology exists that would have done it quicker and "subjectively" better , it does cause you to question your motives or sanity. Oh well it keeps me out of trouble I guess. I personally think the combination of traditional drawing/painting techniques and touches of computer-based "perfection" is part of the deck's appeal for me. I hope you don't intend to give up on the style completely.

Pook	06 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Kittaine Maybe it's just that I equate great digital work to something that looks like Final Fantasy 8, 9, 10 and the FF movie too. Anything that doesn't look like SquareSoft material just isn't good enough for me. Speaking of which, they should have an FF-inspired deck. That would be a DREAM! LOL....Kittaine you sound like my fiance..."It's squaresoft or nothing!!" And every month when the new PlayStation Magazine or other gaming zine gets here it's "Ooooo, baby! Check out these graphics! I'm definitely getting this game" And I agree...by all standards, squaresoft has definitely got an edge over many of the digital companies out there. But that is their intended effect.....to be just that real and detailed. Not to beat a dead horse here, but every artist has their own style, and perception is everything in the art world. (And most of the rest of the world, too, for that matter) Edited to add To be fair, I have not yet recieved my copy of the gilded, so I can't really say whether or not I am as impressed with the finished product as I am of the scans on Ciro's website.

baba-prague	07 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by cirom My technique is not so much old as a deliberate choice, I simply like to paint it myself rather than push a keybord instruction that says "render". I don't want to get into the discussion too much as I seem to remember getting into very deep water last year when a somewhat similar discussion arose ;-) But I would just say that a computer is a very flexible tool that can be used in many ways (of course, this is saying the obvious, but maybe worth stating again). We too prefer to use the computer as something that helps us "draw" and "paint" - we like to have something manual and craftsmanly about the final images, because in the end it gives a different result and, (IMO) not an inferior result, to the use of many filters and digital effects. I've been involved in computer graphics since the very early days (and I LOVED the excitement of all that) and I think it's made me very inclined simply to select what seems to add to the work and leave what doesn't. Our personal decision (and it's only personal, not a qualitative judgement) is to try to avoid Photoshop effects that look like Photoshop effects. I gather that in a different way - and in a different style - Cirom is saying something similar about a broad range of digital graphics effects. But in the end it comes down to preference. For example, we've had people say "why don't you blend the edges of your images more?" - and the answer is simply that we don't like the effect, it isn't "us", although it works well for some artists. Cirom has a very particular and accomplished style (I don't think ANY of us would argue about the sheer accomplishment) that is simply different from some of the other digital art you see. Thank goodness for difference and individuality, otherwise all art would look the same :-) Anyway, that's my tuppence worth - and you don't have to agree with me!

Lee	07 Aug 2004
I find this to be a fascinating discussion, and I love reading the viewpoints of the artists involved. But I just want to say, as someone who knows absolutely nothing about art and even less about computer-aided art -- all I know is, I love Ciro's and Karen's & Alex's images. For myself, I don't think I would like a tarot deck that looks like a computer game. -- Lee

cirom	07 Aug 2004
We may be getting somewhat off the subject of this particlualr thread, but I would add the following observation as it may be something worth considering for members who use the internet to view references to decide wether a deck would be somthing that appeals to them or not. Unlike ads or images from computer games printed in glossy magazines, and viewed on monitors at full screen size. Its worth bearing in mind the obvious, that tarot decks are relativley smaller, and that the internet is a "low resolution" medium (approximately 25% less resolution than the same image when well printed) plus the fact that most artists are wary of putting their work on the internet at larger or higher resolution because of the risk of piracy. This translates to an inferior image, if detail is something you like and are looking for in art style. As an example here is an image from a tarot project I'm working on, and then in the next post will be small section of it enlarged, to demonstrate the inherent limitations of seeing images on line.

cirom	07 Aug 2004
Full image

Frank Hall	07 Aug 2004
I got a set from Borders Friday, having eavesdropped on discussions and having viewed all the images at the artist's website. This is an astonishing work of art , unique in the successful synthesis of traditional painter's technique and digital technology. Actually, I like the achieved unity and coherence, the flow and flash of vivid color inside crystalline bounds-- better seen than verbalized. ( On each card and on the whole.) I like the colored gems for each arcanum-- they add a meditative ambience . And the accompanying book while simple encourages creative interactions and underscores the major arcana as the journey of the self/Self. So many images are striking in beauty and truth. Such blend of scientific instruments and nature's creatures and archetypal mysteries. What a trio of Star,Moon,and Sun. Bravo!

cirom	07 Aug 2004
Section of previous image enlarged to demonstrate extra detail not perceptable at the previous size. In other words when you see previews of decks on the web, there's a lot you don't see.

Kittaine	07 Aug 2004
I looked at the scans of this deck in a couple of websites, found them unappealing. But I just looked at the closeup of the details you attached; then I checked out the scans in your website, and they look markedly different from the other scans! The ones in your site look way, way better! I don't find them as cold and "robotic" as those other scans show. In fact, I think they look just like computer-game screenshots! :D Okay, I'm really curious now! If this is what it looks like up close and personal, then no wonder people are "eeking" over it! Hm...I think I'm gonna buy this!

September Pixie	07 Aug 2004
Ciro, I think you have out done yourself and I haven't even recieved mine!! I should have paid for express shipping :( Maybe I will recieve it today (will be 7 days on Monday), and I cannot WAIT to see this in person!!!! Kittaine, just curious, which sites did you see the scanned samples?

Kittaine	07 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by September Pixie Ciro, I think you have out done yourself and I haven't even recieved mine!! I should have paid for express shipping :( Maybe I will recieve it today (will be 7 days on Monday), and I cannot WAIT to see this in person!!!! Kittaine, just curious, which sites did you see the scanned samples? AT and Tarot Garden

September Pixie	07 Aug 2004
Nearly all the images on AT are compressed to load faster and to save bandwidth I assume ;) The Giger deck on AT, I thought was really unflattering but in person its MUCH prettier.. the cards on AT look grey and flat while in person they are like a brushed silver finish.. and the colors are also a little brighter.. I bought it for a guy who ended up loving it :) They are only sample images and nearly every deck looks better in person I think :) Once I get my deck I can scan a sample if youd like? :)

September Pixie	07 Aug 2004
I JUST GOT MINE!! WOOHOO!!!!

WolfSpirit	07 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by cirom Section of previous image enlarged to demonstrate extra detail not perceptable at the previous size. In other words when you see previews of decks on the web, there's a lot you don't see. New tarot project you are working on ? You are not trying to make us curious are you ? Well it is working anyway ;) I think this looks awesome - is it the ace of wands ?

blackroseivy	07 Aug 2004
May I step in here? I *did* originate the post, after all! Yes, AofW was what I assumed for that there image. I just wanted to say that my first reading with the deck went like butter - smooth 'n' sweet! This will be a very easy deck to get used to, different as it is from my (very few!!) previous decks! Just wondering about the painting process, as an artist: I do *some* digital work, but it isn't this advanced stuff. How in the *world* do you get a pen on a tablet to do all of *that*????!!!! Gonna drive me nuts 'til I manage to get to see it someday!

September Pixie	07 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by danubhe Just wondering about the painting process, as an artist: I do *some* digital work, but it isn't this advanced stuff. How in the *world* do you get a pen on a tablet to do all of *that*????!!!! Gonna drive me nuts 'til I manage to get to see it someday! Well, I cannot speak for Ciro.. but I start with a lot of caffiene, Corel Painter & Photoshop, a graphics tablet, and a lot of free time! lol I am currently working on a painting of my boyfriend's sister, I am nearly finished.. If you are doing a portrait, you begin with measurments of the face (so that things align properly) and then pretty much the same way you work with oils and a brush... If you are interested in learning about it, I would advise you to read some books about digital painting and texturing. :)

cirom	07 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by danubhe MayJust wondering about the painting process, as an artist: I do *some* digital work, You may find an article in the next issue of Llewellyn's New World Magazine interesting. It shows the strength card from the Gilded in various stages from sketch to final version. This is how I go about things, but certainly not the only way or even the right way. But my overall point with this and my previous posts is that digitally created images don't have to necessarily look like computer generated ones. They can have the richness and subtlety of texture that more traditional drawing tools would have. I reinforce this point to my students constantly because very often they assume that software such as Photoshop is primarily to retouch, make photomontages, or modify existing imagery with filtered effects, which of course it does very well. But with the right approach, namely thinking of the digital pen as a "real" pen, your monitor as a blank canvas, then Photoshop or whatever has great potential for producing original images as well. And doing so in a style that can be very similar to your non digitasl work if that is your aim. In that sense the computer is relegated to being merely the tool of choice. Think about it, we don't describe pencil drawings as pencil generated images. "We" do the generating, the pencil is merely the tool we manipulate for producing it. Well thats how I see it anyhow.

Pook	07 Aug 2004
Wow!...This has become a lively discussion, hasn't it?...LOL Kittaine, I would highly recommend checking out Ciro's website...Not just for the tarot cards, but for his other works as well...Some of them are just jaw-droppingly amazing!

lunakasha	07 Aug 2004
Just wanted to let people know, in case you had not noticed..... There is a new thread in the Your Readings forum where we are having some discussion of the Gilded.....by pulling a daily card and posting our interpretations of it. Anyone who might be interested in exploring this amazing deck..... come over and join us!!! :D Luna Here is the link: http://tarotforum.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29725

blackroseivy	08 Aug 2004
hehe Sounds great, will do!! (I'm all hyped from having the artist talk to me!) Someday, maybe I'll be able to do that kinda work, when there's *money* around... Someday. Meanwhile, I have to finish my montages & try to figure out how to paint them the old-fashioned way! :D

blackroseivy	08 Aug 2004
"Gotta get the Gilded!!!" :D

Leleii	09 Aug 2004
I received my Gilded in the mail. I really like the cards. I love the black background and the matte finish. I thought they would have been larger but I like the smaller size. I looked over the cards and I like the animals in each card, it gives the cards something extra. I can't wait to do my new deck spread with the cards. Good work, Ciro.

The EEK! MY GILDED HAS JUST ARRIVED!! I'm so exited!! thread was originally posted on 04 Aug 2004 in the Tarot Decks board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Decks, or read more archived threads.