Poor man's tarot ..

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 15 Aug 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

ferrous	15 Aug 2004
Oh my goodness. You have to see this: the Poor Man's Tarot on ebay. Top marks for trying to make a buck (or 9.99 bucks as the case may be), but if that's the poor man's tarot, then I'm not sure I want to see the expensive version. Make sure you look at the second picture to see how the cards are 'slightly' arched. My goodness. rotfl! :D

ferrous	15 Aug 2004
I think I'm going to add this one to my watch list, just to see what happens to it. :D

Shalott	15 Aug 2004
UGH! The cards i drew for myself when I was 13 looked better! And I can barely draw stick figures! :P

Le_Corsair	16 Aug 2004
He can't be that poor; you can get a nice used RWS or Miss Cleo deck for less than five dollars on eBay..... :D Bob :THERM

Kittaine	16 Aug 2004
WAHAHAHAHHAHA!!!!! My God...how pathetic can people get? Tsk, tsk, tsk...*shakes head*

Little Baron	16 Aug 2004
But remember guys!!!!! This is a 'one off'! As he said, if he painted it again, it would never be EXACTLY THE SAME! Hahahaha Definitely is a 'one off'! Paint it again? I wouldn't bother if I was you, Poor Man! Thanks for that. Yaboot

ferrous	16 Aug 2004
I honestly can't say that my artwork would be that much better (you'll see when Kittaine's deck is given to her) but at least I'm not trying to sell mine. I looked at some of the other things from that seller (from previous auctions) & I guess he (she?) is hoping that it might be a collector's item one day, beceause they've done some original artworks. I couldn't really tell from the pictures if they were any good, because the photographs were quite dark. I guess I do admire them for being enterprising .. heh. *shrugs*

rota	16 Aug 2004
I'm going to watch this one, too. You have to give him points for effort... :P

Majecot	16 Aug 2004
"One Off????"... lets hope he never does that again, I hope no one thinks this is a bargin!! It is certianly not to my tastes. This one is worth watching to see if anyone gets it.

Candra	16 Aug 2004
As someone who would actually like to make an anime deck (and since I'm also trying to become a proffessional artist, I'm not bad) I would like to say that this enterprising fellow obviously needs his next months rent, and probally spent all of 10 min TOTAL working on that deck. The hard part must have been waiting for the paint to dry...although, with the way he had the cards laid out, I'd hazard a guess that he didn't even wait for the paint to dry before he took the pictures and put it up for sale!

ferrous	16 Aug 2004
Still no bids, but the number of watchers (& the number of hits on the page) must be growing by the minute. hehe. :D

magpie9	16 Aug 2004
Perfectly hideous, but wonderfully enterprizing. Lets hope he never tries Art forgery, he'd be busted in a minute :D

Little Baron	16 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by magpie9 Perfectly hideous, but wonderfully enterprizing. Lets hope he never tries Art forgery, he'd be busted in a minute :D This person couldn't forge his own signature! Ohhh, we are awful, arn't we, hehehehe. Yaboot

ferrous	16 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Yaboot001 Ohhh, we are awful, arn't we, hehehehe. Yes, indeed, but surely this person can't be serious? I mean, if it's just a joke to see if anyone really will buy his deck, then I don't feel so bad, but if he seriously thinks that it's .. well .. good art, that is a tad sad.

Little Baron	16 Aug 2004
You never know! This deck could be the 'one'! The one with the 'power'. Maybe it can move furniture and stuff!!! The little tag that went with it seemed pretty serious. Look forward to hearing more of it's progress. Yaboot

WooMonkey	16 Aug 2004
Well I guess I have to agree with everyone's general assessment of this. Too bad though, when I first saw the thread title I thought "How interesting, a deck based on being poor!". Kind of like the 5 of Pentacles taking over the whole deck... :D

fyreflye	16 Aug 2004
I confidently predict that within five years some members of this forum will be frantically outbidding each other in a desperate attempt to add this RARE O/P deck to their collection ;)

ferrous	16 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by fyreflye I confidently predict that within five years some members of this forum will be frantically outbidding each other in a desperate attempt to add this RARE O/P deck to their collection ;) Oh my goodness! I'd better grab it now then!!

magpie9	16 Aug 2004
I'm pretty sure you could move furniture with it if you laminated the cards and then slipped them under the feet (or edges) of heavy furniture. Then you could just push the furniture easily where you wanted it to go. So certainly it must be The One. Too bad I'm too broke to buy it right now. I'll have to wait until it comes around again, at great expense--and beat out fyreflye, too boot!!

Niomi	17 Aug 2004
Who knows? There's a fine line between complete crap and misunderstood art... Too bad you really can't make money on either, or else I'd be rich right now. :(

fyreflye	17 Aug 2004
Quite a bit of money is being made every day on complete crap.

ferrous	17 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Niomi Who knows? There's a fine line between complete crap and misunderstood art... I suspect that truer words were never spoken. lol! :D

ferrous	22 Aug 2004
Damn it!! I *missed* it! ;) Oh my goodess!! Look who bought it!! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5514214105 Jeannette, you *have* to tell us about buying this. It *is* going to become a collector's item! rotfl!! :D

magpie9	23 Aug 2004
And I was so attached to the Art on the majors.................sigh, that's how it goes, the big-time collectors outbidding the impovrished masses.....whine, whine, groan. :D *little magpie slinks off, intent on art forgery - she knows she has some index cards and ink around somewhere...* :D :D :D But seriously, Jeanette, why did you get them? Was it out of Curiosity, or Kindness?

Eco74	23 Aug 2004
With a discussion like this popping up - it surely WILL be a collectible some day. - Legendary even... ;)

ferrous	23 Aug 2004
.. & with this discussion getting longer & longer each day. I mean, it's three pages long already! rotfl! :D It's fast becoming legendary.

Jeannette	23 Aug 2004
Y'know... I've been so busy the last several days that I've not been able to check in on the forums much. So I completely missed this thread. I'm only posting now because ferrous was kind enough to PM me after the auction to let me know this discussion was in progress. Obviously I don't have the cards in hand yet, but I'm not expecting any surprises. Hey -- my job is just to document them, not love 'em all... ;) Just think: now you'll be able to critique them in the Tarot Garden database for all eternity. :* -- Jeannette The Tarot Garden

Majecot	23 Aug 2004
Now that Jeannette's bought them, they probably will be a collector!

Jeannette	23 Aug 2004
LOL! Well, by buying it, I've probably encouraged the seller to make more copies (we've had that happen with our "OOAK" purchases in the past). Sorry 'bout that, everyone. :| -- Jeannette The Tarot Garden

crystal cove	23 Aug 2004
Hmmmm. My daughter made her own cards and they run circles around that one. Maybe I should have her make more and sell them. LMAO

Diana	23 Aug 2004
Jeannette: If I make a Tarot deck, will you also buy it? How about the Rich Man's Tarot, as opposed to the Poor Man's Tarot. You could put them side by side. Just let me know and I will have it finished in an hour. How much will you buy it for?

ferrous	23 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Jeannette LOL! Well, by buying it, I've probably encouraged the seller to make more copies (we've had that happen with our "OOAK" purchases in the past). Sorry 'bout that, everyone. :| -- Jeannette The Tarot Garden OOAK? Do you mean that when you see them you say, "Ooh! Ack!!"?

Jeannette	23 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Diana Jeannette: If I make a Tarot deck, will you also buy it? How about the Rich Man's Tarot, as opposed to the Poor Man's Tarot. You could put them side by side. Just let me know and I will have it finished in an hour. How much will you buy it for? Well, as you can plainly see, I'll pay ten bucks for just about anything... :joke: Actually, I paid $250 for this one, and it's really extremely nice: http://www.tarotgarden.com/database/dbsearchengine.php?view_title=atherton After I bought it, the artist started making more, all unique. I would have bought every one of them if I could have afforded it. The one I got is one of those types of things that you really have to see in person to appreciate it fully. It's not only visually appealing, but tactile-ly appealing as well. The collage technique the artist used almost makes the cards "3D." It was truly worth every penny I paid. -- Jeannette The Tarot Garden

Jeannette	23 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by ferrous OOAK? Do you mean that when you see them you say, "Ooh! Ack!!"? LOL! Oh, that's good. That interpretation would probably fit a lot of the decks I've purchased over the years. OOAK = "One Of A Kind" -- Jeannette The Tarot Garden

Gerbear	24 Aug 2004
Quote: [i] . Hey -- my job is just to document them, not love 'em all... ;) -- Jeannette The Tarot Garden [/b] Perhaps then, some of the decks by Paula Gibbey, (Blue Rose, Animal), and Carol Hertzer/Dirk Gillabel (Cosmotarot, Magical Mystery, Brain & Heart) will get into the Tarot Garden database. They sure beat the Poor Man's Tarot.

Jeannette	24 Aug 2004
When we asked three years ago, the Gillabels denied us permission to include their decks in our database. I have several of their decks here that I'd dearly like to include. -- Jeannette The Tarot Garden

Diana	24 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Jeannette Well, as you can plainly see, I'll pay ten bucks for just about anything... :joke: I'll get it made asap. Do you need a scan of all the cards, or just a few? I accept PayPal.

Kissa	24 Aug 2004
This is a gorgeous deck. i've had my eye one this artist's work for a long time. she sells a lot on eBay. as you mentioned, all her decks are unique, expensive and gorgeous. she does jewelry and all kind of cards too. i think there is a moving story behind all that, if i remember properly, she started her little business after becoming a widow. her artwork has probably helped her in many ways. one of the first decks i'll buy when i win the loto. well, right after this $605 greenwood deck on amazon marketplace, that is... Kissa Thanks for this, Jeannette, i didn't know you had scans of Laraine's artwork in your database and your scans are much better than eBay pics! Stunning... Quote: Originally posted by Jeannette Well, as you can plainly see, I'll pay ten bucks for just about anything... :joke: Actually, I paid $250 for this one, and it's really extremely nice: http://www.tarotgarden.com/database/dbsearchengine.php?view_title=atherton After I bought it, the artist started making more, all unique. I would have bought every one of them if I could have afforded it. The one I got is one of those types of things that you really have to see in person to appreciate it fully. It's not only visually appealing, but tactile-ly appealing as well. The collage technique the artist used almost makes the cards "3D." It was truly worth every penny I paid. -- Jeannette The Tarot Garden

Jeannette	24 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Diana I'll get it made asap... :laugh::laugh::laugh: LOL! Oh, Diana, you are so totally wicked. }) As if I'm not already in enough trouble for encouraging this kind of slap-dash tarot once... :| Actually, if you folks think the one on eBay is bad, you should check this one out. It actually got published (not my fault, I swear!): http://www.tarotgarden.com/database/dbsearchengine.php?view_title=energetic -- Jeannette The Tarot Garden

littlehermit	24 Aug 2004
Oh, my gosh! Now there's a minimalist deck for you. I bet I can do better though. I'll go load up my toothbrush with paint and spatter it on 72 cards, while meditating in turn on the "energies" of each one. If you ask me nicely I will even use more than one color.

Kittaine	24 Aug 2004
WAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *choke choke* "Simple yet evocative" indeed!

baba-prague	24 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by littlehermit I bet I can do better though. I'll go load up my toothbrush with paint and spatter it on 72 cards, while meditating in turn on the "energies" of each one. Why bother to use paint? You could use that stripey toothpaste and call the result "The Toothy Tarot" - and the advantage is that you could clean your teeth at the same time as making the deck - really meditative multi-tasking!!! Little bit messy though, but well, sometimes you have to suffer for your art... edited to add - if Diana DOES do her deck, I bet there will be an unseemly scramble to bid for it - I have a feeling it really will be a once in a lifetime thing ;-)

littlehermit	24 Aug 2004
Or maybe I could just lay out 78 pieces of paper and get my 4 cats to walk in paint and across them. it would be called the "Broke Bohemian's Cats Deck". :D

Jeannette	24 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Kittaine "Simple yet evocative" indeed! Oh, yes -- quite. You'll notice that I didn't comment on exactly what kind of reaction I thought the deck would evoke. ;) -- Jeannette The Tarot Garden

baba-prague	24 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by littlehermit Or maybe I could just lay out 78 pieces of paper and get my 4 cats to walk in paint and across them. it would be called the "Broke Bohemian's Cats Deck". :D ROTFL! Worth a try I think. Have you seen the book "Why cats paint"? - you never know, your cats might do something very evo - cat - ive (sorry, that must put me in line for the " AT worst pun of the year" award)

Lee	24 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by littlehermit Or maybe I could just lay out 78 pieces of paper and get my 4 cats to walk in paint and across them. it would be called the "Broke Bohemian's Cats Deck". :D LOL! I think littlehermit should win the award for the cleverest Aeclectic Forums post ever. -- Lee

WolfSpirit	24 Aug 2004
And as a prize, she actually gets to make the deck. We will be awaiting it on ebay.

littlehermit	24 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by WolfSpirit And as a prize, she actually gets to make the deck. We will be awaiting it on ebay. Do you promise to bid on it - or at least watch and point and laugh while Jeannette buys another Oooh! Ack! deck? ;)

Kissa	24 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by baba-prague ROTFL! Worth a try I think. Have you seen the book "Why cats paint"? - you never know, your cats might do something very evo - cat - ive (sorry, that must put me in line for the " AT worst pun of the year" award) i've seen that book!!!! the authors are maaaaad! they even had a theory that a cat installs dead mice IN A CERTAIN WAY on your carpet, it is art, folks, not cold blood murder!!!! "Broke Bohemian's Cats Tarot" excellent littlehermit, excellent! ROTFL! Kissa

Imagemaker	24 Aug 2004
Quote: If you ask me nicely I will even use more than one color. Oh, no--I was hoping for a black and white spatter-splatter deck! How about a quick collection of majors made with bar codes (like UPC ones). I think there's a site where you put in words and generate UPC codes. That would be a fast project!

rabble	24 Aug 2004
I love the Broke Bohemian's Cats Tarot! :) That energetic deck... energetic??? what's energetic about that? It looks very like confetti flecked paper. Is there meant to be a message in those cards? I do like simplicity, but there's simplicity, and then there's.... simplicity.

Jeannette	24 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by rabble That energetic deck... energetic??? what's energetic about that? :confused: Ya got me. The book's in German, and thus far, I've been entirely un-motivated to try and translate it. -- Jeannette The Tarot Garden

rabble	24 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Jeannette :confused: Ya got me. The book's in German, and thus far, I've been entirely un-motivated to try and translate it. -- Jeannette The Tarot Garden ROFL!!!

le pendu	24 Aug 2004
Always on the side of the underdog... I *like* this deck. Is it great? Not as great as many, but I find a real honesty in it, and feel it probably has some wonderful power in it because it IS handmade. It's actually the backs that I think are really interesting. If I had seen it while it was still up, I would have bid on it. I would rather have spent $10 on a handmade deck than 2 or 3 times as much on some of the "professional" decks I've foolishly purchased over the years. robert

magpie9	24 Aug 2004
I don't know if i would buy the Broke Boheimian Cats Deck, But I certainly would pay money to see a vidio of the making of it!! I too have 4 cats.....................they're probably as artistic as any other 4 cats.......they like to sleep on decks.........roll in laid-out spreads. Hmmmmm....... I never did like the carpet here, anyway.......................They don't seem interested in getting into modeling, let alone holding down a regular job---perhaps they too are Artistes? Here, kitty kitty......here kitty......................Come to mama, Cupcake, here kittty. :D

Cerulean	25 Aug 2004
1. Here's the words: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0785819053/qid=1093408417/sr=1-92/ref=sr_1_92/102-8395661-2128160?v=glance&s=books 2. Here's the pictures: http://www.tarotnorge.com/books/tarotbooks/holmsen-tarot.htm Roll over little circle....and fly away! Pretty colors, though. Cerulean

Jeannette	25 Aug 2004
Oh, so we're moving on to bad computer graphics decks, eh? }) Try this one: http://www.tarotgarden.com/database/dbsearchengine.php?view_title=little+astrology If you don't think this one is too bad, trust me -- the sample scans actually look better than the real thing. -- Jeannette The Tarot Garden

magpie9	25 Aug 2004
What's that on top of the Wheel, a Hamster? and the Star is short 1/2 a leg.....not even a wooden leg. what could possibly be the significance of this? Watch out for Pirates and rabid hamsters? y'think? The Poor Mans tarot is not looking quite so bad, anymore.

fyreflye	25 Aug 2004
Someone qualified to do so should give this thread a four star rating - less than five stars only because the De-enabling thread is still on a roll ;)

Eco74	25 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Cerulean 1. Here's the words: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0785819053/qid=1093408417/sr=1-92/ref=sr_1_92/102-8395661-2128160?v=glance&s=books 2. Here's the pictures: http://www.tarotnorge.com/books/tarotbooks/holmsen-tarot.htm The Lovers card in this deck is adorable though... I wonder if one could get only that one card. But then there is the shipping cost and getting the whole thing would probably wind up cheaper in the end anyway.. ;)

ferrous	25 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Jeannette When we asked three years ago, the Gillabels denied us permission to include their decks in our database. I have several of their decks here that I'd dearly like to include. -- Jeannette The Tarot Garden Hmm. That's odd. Why would someone not want to let people enjoy their art work & perhaps have the chance to purchase it one day?

ferrous	25 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Jeannette Actually, if you folks think the one on eBay is bad, you should check this one out. It actually got published (not my fault, I swear!): http://www.tarotgarden.com/database/dbsearchengine.php?view_title=energetic *ferrous blushes furiously* :| You know, I actually like the samples there with the more bold lines. *hold hands up to fend off the laughter* I'm not saying I'd actually use it as a divination deck, but I might frame it & hang it on my wall in a series of little art works. I dunno .. it could be kind of cool .. .. maybe ..

Jeannette	25 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by ferrous Hmm. That's odd. Why would someone not want to let people enjoy their art work & perhaps have the chance to purchase it one day? We never figured that out. Not that they owed us an explanation for their refusal, but we were curious enough that we actually did eventually write back to politely inquire if they'd mind sharing a few more details (in case it was something that could be worked out, worked around, whatever). No reply was ever received, although in fairness to the Gillabels, I vividly remember that not long after that message went out, we had one of the worst crashes of our email system ever (and we've had a few in our day). So it's possible they replied, but that the message got swallowed up in the nasty, unforgiving "bit bucket." -- Jeannette The Tarot Garden

Savoyali	25 Aug 2004
Quote: How about a quick collection of majors made with bar codes (like UPC ones). I think there's a site where you put in words and generate UPC codes. That would be a fast project! You knew this was coming. So, with extra special thanks to Imagemaker and profound apologies to the community, I present to you The Barcode Tarot And even though this alone was immensly labour-intensive, I managed a second set, for the Marseille lovers: Le Tarot Marseille de Barcode With great thanks to Barcodes Inc. for invaluable artistic input. :D

ferrous	25 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Savoyali So, with extra special thanks to Imagemaker and profound apologies to the community, I present to you The Barcode Tarot And even though this alone was immensly labour-intensive, I managed a second set, for the Marseille lovers: Le Tarot Marseille de Barcode Wow. So intuitive. I think these could be read very easily without a LWB to help explain the inherant intricasies of the artwork in each card. :D

WolfSpirit	25 Aug 2004
Savoyali, you put me to shame. While I was just pottering around you managed to make two (TWO !) decks, an RWS and a Marseilles style. But maybe I can get my cats to make something artistic today.

Jeannette	25 Aug 2004
Ooo! Ooo! Savoyali! Quick! PM me with the reseller's wholesale cost and minimum quantity order! Oh, never mind. Guess I can just get out the scanning wand and figure it out myself. :laugh: ROTFLMAO!!! :laugh: -- Jeannette The Tarot Garden

Imagemaker	25 Aug 2004
Oh, I feel so proud and humbled to have provided the seed for not only one, but two truly memorable decks by Savoyali!! May they go forth into the world to offer users great spiritual insight and practical power. Savoyali, congratulations on future entrepreneurial success!

WolfSpirit	25 Aug 2004
New, and already classics !! :laugh:

Jeannette	29 Aug 2004
Drum, roll, please: http://www.tarotgarden.com/database/dbsearchengine.php?view_title=poor+mans And now my job here is done. (As the Aeclectic membership breathes a collective sigh of relief...) -- Jeannette The Tarot Garden

ferrous	29 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Jeannette http://www.tarotgarden.com/database/dbsearchengine.php?view_title=poor+mans "Unpretentious." rotfpml!!! :D

fyreflye	29 Aug 2004
"80 cards" Just like a commercial deck. A stroke of genius.

MariposAzl	29 Aug 2004
I wonder how much thought actually went into this deck? Did she just put it together for the heck of it, or was she really trying to create something meaningful (however misslead that was)? Hmmmmm.

fyreflye	29 Aug 2004
Who's got the nerve to write her via her eBay link and ask her to join the discussion?

ferrous	29 Aug 2004
I think fyreflye's right. It's commercial genuis. She's done it to see how far something like this will go.

MariposAzl	29 Aug 2004
Quote: Who's got the nerve to write her via her eBay link and ask her to join the discussion? Just a minute..... OK, done. Let's see if she shows up!

fyreflye	29 Aug 2004
I already wrote her myself })

magpie9	30 Aug 2004
*breathlessly waiting*

Nycelle	30 Aug 2004
ROTFLMAO :) I love this thread :)

Kiama	30 Aug 2004
I have been following this thread and ongoing saga of the PoorMan's tarot for some time now and with some trepidation. And I have come to my conclusion... *Stands up and applauds creator of Poor Man's Tarot* I think the Poor Man's Tarot asks an important question: how far will they go? What is Tarot? How far can I push it before it's not Tarot? And how much attention will a deck such as this get from the Tarot community? Well, somebody purchased the deck. There's also a thread here with nearly 80 posts in it. A lot of people now know of the Poor Man's Tarot. And it was a rushed job, with no artistic merit. Now that's class. :D Kiama

MariposAzl	30 Aug 2004
But really, how do we seriously know if this wasn't an honest attempt at making a deck? What we see as a joke may be in the creators eye their masterpiece. (Playing devil's advocate }) )

ferrous	30 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Kiama I have been following this thread and ongoing saga of the PoorMan's tarot for some time now and with some trepidation. And I have come to my conclusion... *Stands up and applauds creator of Poor Man's Tarot* I think the Poor Man's Tarot asks an important question: how far will they go? What is Tarot? How far can I push it before it's not Tarot? And how much attention will a deck such as this get from the Tarot community? Well, somebody purchased the deck. There's also a thread here with nearly 80 posts in it. A lot of people now know of the Poor Man's Tarot . And it was a rushed job, with no artistic merit. Now that's class. :D Kiama I'm taking the same stance as Kiama, but she said it so much better than I have previously been able to explain to my (non-tarot, but not against tarot) husband. *joins Kiama in her standing ovation*

fyreflye	30 Aug 2004
Quote: And it was a rushed job, with no artistic merit. Now that's class. If you'd had as many professional artist friends as I've had, and sat through as many "What is Art?" discussions as I have, you wouldn't be so quick to judge the "artistic merit" of this project. The artist's intention is everything; and, as I read her intention, her project (which is not necessarily the same as the cards themselves) has succeeded far beyond her expectations. The evidence? The very existence of this thread.

MariposAzl	30 Aug 2004
Now THAT'S what I'm talking about fyreflye! We just don't know where her heart was when she was creating this deck. It may look as if she "splattered" it out in a matter of minutes, but truely there could have been alot of thought and meaning for her in these cards. Now don't get me wrong, I don't think the artwork is something to be admired, I'm just saying we may be placing her in the category of some just out to make a quick buck and that may not be the case. Ya never know! (again, just playing the role of }) 's advocate here :D )

Jeannette	30 Aug 2004
Some other thoughts: Artistic Merit: As someone who is about as far from artistically talented as you can get, I can't speak to the issue as to whether or not there's any real "art" in these cards. I would say that they're certainly not much to look at. But -- there's another aspect that I think is being overlooked, that could be given equal (or, depending on your POV, greater) weight with the cards' artistic value: their utilitarian function. For someone who is perfectly comfortable with intuitive readings, a deck this minimalistic might be ideal. (See Ravenswing's post on Sweet-and-Low readings for an example). Of course, even artistically-challenged I could put together a deck like this on my own. BUT... Making a "Quick Buck": ...I wouldn't expect to get rich selling them, and I doubt that the seller did, either. You can do the math: I paid $10 for the cards. eBay took 88˘ of that amount for the "privilege" of listing with them. I paid by PayPal, which took another 60˘, leaving the seller with a gross profit of $8.52. (We'll assume for this scenario that the seller had the stuff needed to create the deck just lying around waiting to be used, so we won't subtract out any materials cost.) Now, how long did it take to actually create the deck and prepare it for listing on eBay? Even working top-speed, it's going to take some time to paint the symbols on the fronts and backs of 80 cards, and hand-cut them so that they're more-or-less the same size. And for determining the return on one's time, it's perfectly fair to consider how long it took to do up the digital photos, write the auction text, etc., as the deck wouldn't have been sold had it not been listed on eBay. So I don't think it's unfair to estimate that the seller had at least two hours of her time invested in the project. So: ($10.00 - $0.88 - $0.60) / 2 = $4.26 per hour. Even in the current pathetic-wage U.S. economy, she could have made more money in that time working at McDonald's. I don't think we're going to be seeing much more of this sort of thing on eBay for a while. Unless the seller wants to do it for the sheer fun of it. And if so, there's nothing wrong with that. I just wouldn't wager that she could make yet another $4.26/hr on the next go-around. ;) -- Jeannette The Tarot Garden

ferrous	30 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by fyreflye If you'd had as many professional artist friends as I've had, and sat through as many "What is Art?" discussions as I have, you wouldn't be so quick to judge the "artistic merit" of this project. The artist's intention is everything; and, as I read her intention, her project (which is not necessarily the same as the cards themselves) has succeeded far beyond her expectations. The evidence? The very existence of this thread. We could compare it with the piece of music which was called, if I remember correctly, Three Minutes Thirty-three. It was made up of three movements, the sheet music on which was written 'Tacit' (which in musical terms means silence) for each movement. It was written for piano. At the performance of this piece, he sat at the piano in silence for each of the three movements. The members of the audience began to mutter to each other. As each minute passed, they muttered louder, some perhaps even calling out to the pianist, telling him to "Play something!" Now the music was not the sound of the piano, but the sound of the people listening to the piece, or, perhaps more to the point, their reactions to the piece. Thus, we have this thread in response to "The Poor Man's Tarot". People, I give you music. [edited to fix mixed tense. it's late & i should be sleeping.]

MariposAzl	30 Aug 2004
Quote: People, I give you music. :joke: :joke: :joke:

fyreflye	30 Aug 2004
Quote: We could compare it with the piece of music which was called, if I remember correctly, Three Minutes Thirty-three. "4'33" (1952) by John Cage; the subject of innumerable "What is Music" discussions among composers and music listeners for over half a century.

ferrous	31 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by fyreflye "4'33" (1952) by John Cage; the subject of innumerable "What is Music" discussions among composers and music listeners for over half a century. I was so close. Just one minute off. Thanks, fyrefly. :)

Kiama	31 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by fyreflye If you'd had as many professional artist friends as I've had, and sat through as many "What is Art?" discussions as I have, you wouldn't be so quick to judge the "artistic merit" of this project. The artist's intention is everything; and, as I read her intention, her project (which is not necessarily the same as the cards themselves) has succeeded far beyond her expectations. The evidence? The very existence of this thread. I'm not going to get into a full-blown discussion of Aesthetics and Art Criticism here, but I'll just add that I studied that at Uni for 2 years... And I disagree that the artists' intent is everything, because there are many more things that we use to categorize something as 'art' than 'intention'. Is art in the eye of the beholder or the creator? Now that's certainly a question that can be applied to the Poor Man's tarot. Kiama

Kittaine	03 Sep 2004
http://www.tarotgarden.com/database/dbsearchengine.php?search_type=blob&pageenter=0 Thanks, Jeanette, for the great, big, hearty laugh you've given me. I've never had one in awhile. And, of course, how can I forget the creator of the deck who started it all? Thank you. There's a special "aura" emanating from this deck now...I can feel it...

Jeannette	03 Sep 2004
Kittaine: Glad you got a chuckle out of the results of this whole affair. I figured this would be just another "grab-and-scan-and-dump-it-on-the-pile" acquisition for us, but it's turned out to be great fun. But, you might want to know that the URLs generated by performing a "Deck QuickSearch" on our website don't include the necessary info embedded in them to reproduce the search results. The QuickSearch passes too much info to the system via "invisible" form variables. In order to isolate the "Poor Man's Tarot" in our database for others, you'd need to provide this link instead: http://www.tarotgarden.com/database/dbsearchengine.php?view_title=poor+mans More info on linking directly to specific items in our database can be found here: http://www.tarotgarden.com/faq.html#db_3.1 -- Jeannette The Tarot Garden

The Poor man's tarot .. thread was originally posted on 15 Aug 2004 in the Tarot Decks board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Decks, or read more archived threads.