Lets talk about the Gill ...

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 10 Sep 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Jewel-ry	10 Sep 2004
I have had this deck for a while and yesterday I decided to blow off the cobwebs and have another look at it. What a great deck? I bought the book at the same time and my first impressions of the book were that it was a bit too 'religious' for me and also I found a lot of the kabbalah stuff rather confusing. However, I have begun reading this little book again and its quite a gem. A lot of it is beginning to make sense. I suppose this is because I have a little more experience now than I did have. Anyway, I would like to know who uses it. How do you get on with using it for readings? Has anyone tried out the Gill spread and what do you think? I have just done it and found it really enlightening. Also, I have noticed a couple of things in the cards which I hadn't seen before. For instance, the hermit card does have a face on it, its in the background. I have put a link in here because you can see it quite clearly. How clever? The head of the full figure hermit just sits in the ear of the larger picture (does that make any sense?) http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/gill/ So, has anyone else noticed any subtle/hidden messages in this deck? Opinions?/Observations?/Comemnts? ~

Centaur	10 Sep 2004
Unfortunately, I don't have this deck, but I would definetly buy it. Very nice artwork!!! And that Priestess card is quite spooky and amazing looking. I like the idea of the Empress as built into a hill also. It looks very cool. Does the book include a chapter on the Tree of Life and stuff like that? Is that what you meant by reference to Kabbalah? I'd be interested in hearing how you get on with any readings with this deck. :D

Jewel-ry	10 Sep 2004
Yes Centaur, The book does have a chapter on the Tree of Life with its corresponding pathways to the tarot. The back of the cards has the Tree of Life depicted on it together with the different colourways for each sephira (sp) and most of the minor cards incorporate these colours. You can see the backs here: http://www.tarotwisdomreadings.com/TarotDecks/Gill.html The Majors have quite a chunky write up which, to be honest, I found rather heavy going first time round, but I just think this is one of those books which requires more than one read. The book goes on to explain many of the minor cards in the light of the sphere that they are associated with and their virtues and vices. I havn't got to the court cards yet but there does seem to be some sort of system. I shall let you know more when I have read more of the book. In the meantime, perhaps someone else can explain? The one thing which I found off-putting originally was the piercing eyes on some of the people but funnily enough this doesn't seem to be bothering me now. The minor cards have the number on them together with some sort of depiction to help get the message. They are totally different to anything I have ever seen before but I quite like the original portrayal. More tomorrow if I have time. J.

Leleii	10 Sep 2004
I love my Gill Tarot Cards. I get very deep readings with it. I think it is THE Tarot Deck for me. I have fifty decks, I like them all but I never really connected with a deck. I connected with the Gill. When I use the cards, it almost feels like I am having a conversation with them. The cards just flows. The deck is simple yet deep. I am very happy with my deck. I tried the spread from the book and it is right on. I am just learning about the Tree of Life with the corresponding cards, I am a beginner. I really, really, really love this deck. If you are interested in doing a study group on the Gill, count me in.

ladymermaid	10 Sep 2004
yes i also have the gill deck. my mom gave it to me it was her deck. i love that deck. the art work very nice.

WooMonkey	11 Sep 2004
I have the Gill deck, but not the book. I was initially attracted by the elemental aspects of the minor arcana, and was not disappointed! Beautiful, striking art--truly a deck with a difference! :)

northsea	12 Sep 2004
I have the Gill on my wishlist for the art, and the book looks like a good intro to the kabbalah, but the only turn-off is the keywords on the courts and minors. I especially don't like keywords on the court cards since I usually disagree with them. But nevertheless, one of the best decks I've seen.

BlueLotus	12 Sep 2004
I also have the Gill deck but not the book. I didn't like the deck when I first saw the images online, but with time I realized I actually want it. It is a rather unusual deck in its depiction of the images, and I particualry like the Majors but the Minors have taken me longer to grasp and get used to since unfortunately I haven't worked long enough with this deck in order to get used to them. But looking at it now, I realize what I have been missing. The little book that comes with the deck does a good job at explaining the cards, and I am not sure I am quite ready for deeper meanings, as in a book. I will probably join any study group which will help me get to know this lovely deck better . . .

Little Baron	12 Sep 2004
Just have to say - completely off of topic ..... byt Feebie, I thought I was going mad then! I was sure your avatar winked at me ... completely stopped me in my tracks while reading. Great avatar ... what was we talking about again?, hehe. Yaboot

Little Baron	12 Sep 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Yaboot001 Just have to say - completely off of topic ..... byt Feebie, I thought I was going mad then! I was sure your avatar winked at me ... completely stopped me in my tracks while reading. Great avatar ... how did you get it to do that. I would love my clown to give a mysterious and cheeky one eye wink. What was we talking about again?, hehe. Yaboot Edited to add: see what you have done to me Feebie!; you have got me all on edge, rather than edit my post, I quoted it, lol. What I was meant to add was 'how did you get it to do that? I would love my clown to have a one eyed cheeky wink'.

BlueLotus	12 Sep 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Yaboot001 Just have to say - completely off of topic ..... byt Feebie, I thought I was going mad then! I was sure your avatar winked at me ... completely stopped me in my tracks while reading. Great avatar ... what was we talking about again?, hehe. Yaboot Yes, Yaboot, it does wink at you if you look at it long enough. And Thank you. This special avatar had been saved in my pictures since a long time, and I don't even remember who sent it to me, and quite frankly I was as surprised as you to see it blinks. I will have to investigate into this myself. . .

lunakasha	12 Sep 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Feebie Yes, Yaboot , it does wink at you if you look at it long enough. And Thank you. That is SOOOOOO cool Feebie!!! I never noticed the blink/wink until Yaboot pointed out, but I was already admiring it....just GORGEOUS!!! :D Luna

Sulis	12 Sep 2004
Yep, it's an awsome avatar, even before it winks - I bet it'll freak a few people out though. ....... Anyway, back to The Gill :) I used to have it, I really liked the majors - I thought that the minors were quite good too - hated the keywords, I can't stand keywords and because the minors weren't really that pictoral the keywords seemed to stand out more - that happens with me and the Thoth deck too. Traded it away because I thought it was a deck which deserved to be used. Love Sulis xx

Jewel-ry	12 Sep 2004
Well, totally off topic now. Feebie Wow!!!! That is soooo coool. Anyway, the Gill. The book is deep but its cleverly written. I just hadn't read it with any true focus before. I agree with many of you, that the keywords are an issue (and of course they are not as easy to chop as the Rohrig ;) ), however, I still think that given enough time this deck will be a little treasure. It still requires some study though! I am just looking at what the book says about the 8 Cups and one of the things I don't quite understand is when it quote the associations of the colours as in the following statement - 'the figure is breaking up, as is the orange background, the color of Briah in Hod' http://www.tarotpassages.com/gill2.jpg Does anyone know how we know what the colour of Briah is? I know we have the colour associations on the back of the card but they are the colours of the spheres. Also, would still be interested to know if any of you have done the Gill spread, its laid out like the Tree of Life and you don't need a question but I found it quite insightful. ~

anubis	12 Sep 2004
Oh my god! If i come across this deck, i would certainly buy it. Its Death stands out to me

genna	13 Sep 2004
Yes,it does,doesn´t it?I´ve even dreamt about that card.

Rusty Neon	13 Sep 2004
The Gill Tarot uses the Golden's Dawn [kabbalistic] colour scales. There are four scales, one corresponding to each of the four Kabbalistic Worlds. The only other deck that does this systematically is Duquette's deck. The Thoth deck does so to a limited extent. Atziluth (World) - Fire (element) -- Wands (suit) - King Scale Briah - Water - Cups - Queen Scale Yetzirah - Air - Swords - Emperor (or Prince) Scale Assiah - Earth - Disks - Empress (or Princess) Scale For example, for the Eights (Hod on the Kabbalistic Tree) of the minor suits: 8 of Wands - Violet Purple (King Scale's colour for Hod) 8 of Cups - Orange (Queen Scale's colour for Hod) 8 of Swords - Red Russett (Prince Scale's colour for Hod) 8 of Disks - Yellowish brown / flecked white (Princess Scale's colour for Hod) There are 32 colours per scale (thus corresonding to 10 numbers plus 22 trumps). The pips use one scale's colour per suit. As for the major arcana, it doesn't seem that Gill uses the GD colour scales in the colour scheme of those cards, whereas Duquette, for each major arcanum in Duquette's deck, uses the corresponding scale colours from all four scales (from each scale, the colour from among the colours for #11 to #32 that corresponds to the major arcana card).

Jewel-ry	13 Sep 2004
Thanks Rusty, This is really interesting. How can I find out what the 32 colours are that relate to each scale? And is there only one system of colours? I have always been able to see that there is some colour system but could never work it out. For instance all of the fives are a red or russet. ~

Rusty Neon	13 Sep 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Jewel-ry This is really interesting. How can I find out what the 32 colours are that relate to each scale? And is there only one system of colours? I can't see to find anywhere on the Web any handy lists of the 32 colours of the four colour scales of the Golden Dawn. Such lists are set forth in Regardie's black-covered Golden Dawn compendium and also set forth in Crowley's book _777_. I have seen a couple of places on the Web where _777_ can be downloaded for free. You can find the write-up on the four colour scales at Columns XV to XVIII in _777_. If you look in places on the Web to download Golden Dawn materials, look for the Fifth Knowledge Lecture which is where the colour scales are discussed. Quote: I have always been able to see that there is some colour system but could never work it out. For instance all of the fives are a red or russet. According to the four colour scales: 5 of Wands - Orange 5 of Cups - Scarlet Red 5 of Swords - Bright Scarlet 5 of Disks - Red and Flecked Black

Jewel-ry	14 Sep 2004
Rusty, I found this site in which you point to the sphere or the pathway and a colour scheme comes up. It seems to tie in with what you have already said. Could you have a quick look at let me know what you think? http://www.polarissite.net/TOL/Default.htm In some ways the colour similarities are amazing. I wonder why the Majors in this deck have not been similarly depicted? Also, what about the Court cards. Where do they fit into the grand scheme of things? For others who have this deck, it is well worth looking at this site. I have just clicked on Malkuth (the sphere at the bottom of the tree of life) and the colour scheme is so accurately depicted in the tens. It definately has a Wow! factor. ~

anubis	14 Sep 2004
is it a 22-card deck or a standard 78-card deck?

Jewel-ry	14 Sep 2004
Hi there anubis, It is a full 78 card deck. I noticed your comment on the Death card and in fact the link I put up before did not do that card justice. It is much better in the flesh! ~

Rusty Neon	15 Sep 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Jewel-ry Rusty, I found this site in which you point to the sphere or the pathway and a colour scheme comes up. It seems to tie in with what you have already said. Could you have a quick look at let me know what you think? http://www.polarissite.net/TOL/Default.htm In the Tree of Life at the above link, the colours of the 10 sephiroth and 22 paths, totalling 32 'colours', are the colours of the Golden Dawn 'Queen Scale'. Quote: Also, what about the Court cards. Where do they fit into the grand scheme of things? Unfortunately, as with the majors of the Gill deck, the court cards of the Gill deck don't appear to employ the colour scales either. If the court cards of the Gill deck had been coloured to correspond to the colour scales, one way consistent with Golden Dawn tree of life assignments would have been to give the King of a suit, whatever colour is assigned to the 2 of that suit. To the Queen, whatever colour is assigned to the 3 of that suit. To the Prince, whatever colour is assigned to the 6 of that suit. And to the Princess, whatever colour is assigned to the 10 of that suit. This is because, in the GD system, the King is placed on the 2nd sephira of the tree (along with the 2s), the Queen is placed on the 3rd sephira (along with the 3s), the Prince is placed on the 6th sephira (along with the 6s), and the Princess is placed on the 10th sephira (along with the 10s). For comparison sake, here's what DuQuette does for the court cards in his deck: He appears to use colours suggestive of the element assigned to the suit. (I don't know if there is anything deeper behind those particular colour choices.) All Wands courts have yellow backgrounds, all Swords courts have blue backgrounds, all Cups courts have bluish-green backgrounds, and all Disks courts have green mid-grounds and brownish backgrounds.

Jewel-ry	15 Sep 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Rusty Neon For comparison sake, here's what DuQuette does for the court cards in his deck: He appears to use colours suggestive of the element assigned to the suit. (I don't know if there is anything deeper behind those particular colour choices.) All Wands courts have yellow backgrounds, all Swords courts have blue backgrounds, all Cups courts have bluish-green backgrounds, and all Disks courts have green mid-grounds and brownish backgrounds. This is obviously the way the Gill has been done too! Each 'set' of court cards is done in similar colours to those mentioned here. Thanks a lot Rusty, plenty to keep me occupied! ~

firelite	04 Oct 2004
I love the Gill deck! I don´t mind the keywords; actually I find them helpful, since I´m not all that experienced. My only problem with the Gill is its extensive use of the Jungian-ish "male=conscious, female=subconscious" symbology, which doesn´t appeal to me; I prefer to think more androgynously. But I can overlook this flaw since it is a deck that clearly speaks to me.

lunakasha	06 Oct 2004
I just had my first readings with the Gill today.....and I have to admit I was very pleased with how clearly the cards spoke to me. I met with some friends who wanted readings....thought I would try out the Gill, as it seems to be one of those "non-scary" decks that appeal to most people. But I was a little nervous because I had never read with them before. The pips are very unusual in the way they incorporate the symbolism with the actual number for the card....but they were very effective in conveying the message of the card. I felt very comfortable with them, AND my friends thought they were beautiful!!! One of the cards that came up was the Four of Cups.....and my friend was really moved by that image. "My cups runneth over," she said with a smile.... I look forward to spending more time with these cards....and I have yet to read the book, but it sounds like it is worth checking out!!! :) Luna

The Lets talk about the Gill ... thread was originally posted on 10 Sep 2004 in the Tarot Decks board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Decks, or read more archived threads.