BBC Tarot & Others - Sadness While Reading?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 06 Nov 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Tarot Sparrow	06 Nov 2004
This may be an odd thread :)...but I figured I'd post anyway. I've had the Baroque Bohemian Cats' Tarot for a little while, and I love it--I think it's beautiful and though I haven't had really much time for tarot lately I would love to use it for readings. But I have trouble reading it emotionally when I see certain cards. I am a very big animal lover--and cats are way up there on my list of lovables. Certain, shall we say, negative cards in the deck, such as the 3 of Swords, 5 of Swords, 8 of Swords, 10 of Swords, 10 of Pentacles, 5 of Cups, and the Devil, make me very sad when I look at them. Even some of the other cards, such as the Wheel of Fortune, 8 of Cups, the Hermit, 10 of Wands, 5 of Pentacles, and 9 of cups, also trouble me somewhat, even if it's not exactly sadness they bring about--although maybe I should read what the book has to say about these cards. The reason is because in all of these cards, to me, the cats look either troubled, bitter (9 of Cups), or just downright sad! In other tarot decks, these same types of images do not bother me, whether they be people, mythological creatures, etc, because mythological creatures usually don't feel "real" in tarot art to me, they are just drawings....and because I am quite used to seeing people in pain, that's life, violence and pain is all over the place and in media and in movies all the time, so we are often desensitized to it. But since I have such a deep affinity with animals and believe they are so pure of heart and deserve no pain, and the fact that these cats are so real, it somewhat pains me to see them like this. Pictures of these cards can be seen here: http://www.bohemian-cats.com/tarot/home.htm Now don't get me wrong--I still think this is a very well-done and lovely deck, and I'm sure there was no intention to harm the animals in the artwork (they're just pictures, traditional tarot card symbolism!) and yet when I look at some of these poor cats and their sad faces I feel like my heart is bleeding. In reality I can't stand to see an animal in pain, physically or emotionally, and although these are just cards, the realistic pictures have a kind of effect on me. Am I being ridiculous? Does anyone else have this problem with this deck, or any other deck for that matter? Moreover, does anyone have any suggestions as to how I might get past this? It's hard because I think about the things animals have to go through every day and these sad faces just upset me. The 3 of Swords is actually my favourite card in this deck, and I feel so bad for that poor kitty who looks so solemn and depressed. Oddly, the image of the cats falling from the Tower, although troubling, doesn't upset me so much...why? Because I know cats always land on their feet and they will be fine...as if this image is even real! Now isn't that just the dumbest thing...? :rolleyes: I love this deck and want to be able to use it without feeling like there are actually animals suffering in these cards as I use them. On a good day I can look at them and be fine, knowing they are just pictures...but at times it gets to me. Any suggestions? I would greatly appreciate any advice, or similar stories anyone might want to share! Sorry for such a long thread.

WolfSpirit	06 Nov 2004
I know just what you mean, Dead Star. I haven't really felt inclined to read with this deck - I only start reading with a deck I have when I feel a "click" that it is time to use it - and this may be the reason. I know baba meant it as a reading deck, but I think for me it will be more of a nice one for the collection (also because I recognize a lot of the background sceneries from a holiday). I also just got the Tarot du Chat - that has drawings of cats and they have more of an abstract expression, I think that will definitely be one to read with.

Alta	06 Nov 2004
This is one of my main reading decks. For some reason having the figures as cats rather than humans makes it easier for me to read with, not more difficult. I find the 8 of swords, the 8 of cups somehow deeply poignant, but not sad or worrisome. I do not think about the actual cats, knowing well they are digitally manipulated images. I fall into the atmosphere of the cards instead. Pictures of people in such difficult situations is what sometimes makes me sad. With the cats I can understand the situation without the other feelings.

Myrrha	06 Nov 2004
I found the Ten of Swords, the Tower, and Judgement very off-putting in this deck. Judgement just makes me think "support the hind legs!". Even with less difficult cards the combination of tarot and dressed-up cats is uncomfortable. It is like I'm being asked to laugh and find the cats amusing in a way that doesn't feel right to me (Four of Pentacles for example). The deck is well-done though and it is impressive that the creators managed to capture those kitty facial expressions. --Myrrha

ambermoon	06 Nov 2004
This is one of my main reading decks, also. I guess my view of the feline experience parallels much of the human experience, so it's easy to translate between the two worlds. This deck speaks most strongly to me for readings about group dynamics, intrigue, and the undercurrents running through small, closely-knit communities. The fantasy of cats walking upright in clothes is convincing enough that the realities of feline anatomy don't intrude on my readings. I just accept it as a pleasant fantasy. It's such a treat to go pathwalking, in feline form myself, into these cards. The Star is one of the sweetest cats I've ever met. As for the expressions on their faces, well, that is something that cats do so well, if only to tease us. Amber, my cat, is smiling in her sleep as I write this, and she is quite the one for making such a displeased face, with her mouth drawn up into a little circle of annoyance. I always tell her to stop making cat faces when she does that. But getting back to the pain you feel. The deck must speaking very powerfully to you, and that is a burden and a gift at the same time. hugs and purrs, ambermoon

HudsonGray	06 Nov 2004
Cats weren't harmed in the making of the deck, so you're mostly seeing cats looking suspiciously at a camera held by strangers, not anythat are in pain or have any super high stress levels coming through. Some pictures, I think I remember hearing, were taken by the owners to avoid this particular 'look'. I don't have any problem with the expressions, the cats are all healthy and only minorly inconvenienced at the time of the photo shoot.

WolfSpirit	06 Nov 2004
I don't think Dead Star or anyone else in this thread meant the cats used to make the deck were actually suffering, but that the tarot card has a sad meaning and she can't handle it when there is a cat involved - not the actual cat in the making of the deck, but the cat in the story that the deck is telling, you could say she is getting too much emotionally involved in the fiction :) For me, I think animals dressed up as people don't really work, unless it is done in a more cartoonish way. At least that is what I have found so far. I have enough other decks I can read with, so I just let this one be an art deck.

baba-prague	06 Nov 2004
Oh dear, I'm so sorry that you find some of these cards sad. But on a practical level please don't worry - all the images are done under VERY close cat supervision! In fact, the cats looking less happy are just about all taken from the owner's own photographs at cat shows - and we do a lot of redrawing (please remember we do redraw the expressions very often - they look natural but they are considerably redrawn) to emphasise this look. As Hudson says, in the original the cats were more cross than distressed - no responsible owner would allow their cat to be really upset by a cat show - we also attend ourselves and find the cats are mostlly used to shows and fine with it. When we photographed cats at home we tended to hang around the owner's home for quite some time until the cats were comfortable with us. The "Judgement" cats were standing on the floor (we only hold them for a second or two, not longer). We also did discuss supporting their legs on the card, but decided that as it's the spiritual body rather than the actual one that we wanted that slightly floating look. The snarling Knight of Swords (a cat we know well, we are spending the evening with her owner tomorrow) had a fierce "feather stick" in her mouth ;-) We had a meeting this morning with the head of the Cat Society here (we are doing another project, but not a deck) and he - as well as finding us the breeds and colours we need - looks for cats that are happy with new people and won't be upset by our being there - fortunately most cats are pretty sociable as long as you give them some time. We also take presents like fluffy mice and treats - that always helps! I have to say that the BIG problem we had in many cases was that some cats tried a little too hard to help. In the cats' shelter here one silver tabby stuck by us throughout and kept gently batting the lens at the crucial moment. I almost took her home but in fact they were looking for a home without other cats for her - they said she can't leave a person or a cat alone and that while people like it, other cats don't! She is now safely homed. While photographing the Persians we also attracted one little girl who got very into the whole process and again, rather got in the way (we didn't tell her that as she was purring throughout - and clearly felt herself essential to the whole thing). I have a standing arrangement to have first option on taking her in a year or so when she has finished breeding (the lady who owns her will only allow her to have two litters) as her owner felt she would settle with us. Apart from that I'm honestly not sure what to say about sad reactions to some pictures. I understand what you mean I think but we did try to be very careful to show a happy side of cards such as Judgement (and in fact to me that's been an important card). But cards such as the Three of Swords need to be heart-rending I think - personally I don't think they should be softened. However, we tried to make the sadness a human or fairytale kind of sadness, not a "real" sadness for a cat. In many ways this is quite a fairytale deck, but I mean the older, more odd and powerful fairytales rather than modern ones. I think it's true to say that it does show a world in which there are intrigues and secrets, as well as a lot of happiness and fun. Our intention is that each card is like a scene from that world - you half have to guess what's happening in the full story. Perhaps we just react very strongly to any emotions around our animal companions? But then, I honestly think this is one reason that the deck reads so strongly. It is very emotional (NOT graphic though - far from it).

Cerulean	06 Nov 2004
While I figured the digital manipulation was due to the talents of the artists, I didn't realize that many different cats were actually photographed with the deck in mind--I thought the authors and artists were drawing from their great supply of cat resources! I appreciate the update. Cerulean

M-Press	06 Nov 2004
I find that every deck has a life of it's own, especially after the publication date, regardless of the creator's intentions. If someone feels sadness, then this is of course not something to argue about-it is someone's feelings. But even though this could be considered a negative trait about the deck, i actually think it gives it depth and a even more unique quqlity. Not many decks can make you feel that way. Evocative is good, no matter where it takes you. The BBcats is a strong deck. It has plenty of personality and that goes beyond the artistic mastery. personally, i discovered I'm totally afraid of the BBcats King of swords. I have "issues" with him, and it has nothing to do with cats. I actually hold this as an opportunity for inner work. Why I feel that way, what it reminds me, what is the spot that it triggers, and so on. Not many decks offer that "platform", and I'm very greatful for it.

baba-prague	06 Nov 2004
Not all were photographed specially - we arranged to use both photos taken directly by people (I don't much like the word "owners" - though I do use it). One breeder in the UK was particularly great at sending good pictures - as was one AT person :-). We also used a lot of photos taken at cat shows here (by breeders, not by the public). But a lot of the cats were photographed particularly, and by us - and we certainly did not use library images or anything like that. For the next project ALL the cats will be photographed by us probably. It's a story with strong characters, so we are effectively doing "casting" right now. We'd like even more expression this time around so we will use only a few cats and really get to know them. It IS hard though to get this kind of thing right for everyone. We knew at the outset that not all tarot lovers (or even all cat lovers) will relate to this deck - although those who do seem to get a lot out of it. In some ways, think "Puss in Boots" - it's a fantasy deck. You know, I thought See of Logos would be THE controversial deck for us - but in some ways I see that BBCats is also a deck that will arouse some strong emotions. I hope it's mostly to the good!

Tarot Sparrow	06 Nov 2004
Thanks for your posts everyone. Wolfy James had it right... Quote: I don't think Dead Star or anyone else in this thread meant the cats used to make the deck were actually suffering, but that the tarot card has a sad meaning and she can't handle it when there is a cat involved - not the actual cat in the making of the deck, but the cat in the story that the deck is telling, you could say she is getting too much emotionally involved in the fiction. This is exactly what I meant. I know no cats were harmed, we're all nice people here :) I just wanted to say baba_prague, that I don't think the card images should be "softened" either. It is a very well-done deck just the way it is and I wouldn't want it to be changed. The only thing I want to change is my sad reaction to some of these sad-looking faces. I guess animals just have that effect on me--they seem so real in this deck to me, even dressed up in clothes and standing on two legs. It's the faces that show the emotion and that is not masked for me. I know that the cats were not harmed and were probably not upset when the pictures were taken--it's just the CONTEXT in which the pictures were used--when you put that slightly annoyed or tired face on a body that is bound and surrounded by swords (8 of Swords) it causes the cat to look distressed to me. After all, a traditional meaning of the 8 of Swords is confinement, even if it is somewhat voluntary, we still feel trapped. When that face is put in this card, the meaning influences the facial expression for me, because who wouldn't feel sad in that situation? And, of course, a certain face wouldn't have been used unless it did look somewhat distressed in that particular context, rather than just simply tired or annoyed. I hope that makes sense. It's subconscious for me. For another example, the cat in the 10 of Pentacles looks terribly sad to me, until I read the explanation from the book that he is "thoughtful." It's easier to picture him that way once I understand the context being used, and he seems less sad looking and more thoughtful, as he was meant to look. I just take images and situations from real life and apply them to these cards on my own, thinking automatically that this poor kitty is sad and needs help. But now when I look at him it's easier for me to see that he's in deep thought, instead. So the book meanings do help. I think it also helps just to separate the actual images from the contexts of the card. When I take the kitty in the 10 of Swords away from the image, and the knowledge that he is about to be stabbed in that card, it's easier for me to feel okay about it because I know that when the picture was taken he was probably just playing on the ground, with his paw over his face, or sleeping. It makes it seem more comical for me to be feeling so sad for him. I hope this all makes sense. I think these posts have helped somewhat, thank you. I just wish animals were treated so well in real life; then I wouldn't feel like they were being tortured whenever I see them with fake swords dangling above their heads :) I suppose my real-life compassion just interferes with my understanding of images. I really hope I can start using this deck--I do love it.

HudsonGray	06 Nov 2004
Having certain cards come up and plain bother a person was covered in some tarot book I read a while back. They were referred to as 'gate cards', indicating something that needed to be looked at further by the reader as they happen to touch on something that needs a conscious look-see. It's where we get 'stuck' or have a blind spot of some sort. But it also depends on whether the person feels that it's time to take a closer look, too. It's an individual decision.

Alta	07 Nov 2004
I agree with that! When a card, of whatever deck, just gives you the willies, at some point you have to examine the issues that it shows you in symbolic form.

Kissa	07 Nov 2004
Myrrha wrote: Judgement just makes me think "support the hind legs!". --Myrrha Cannot discuss whether you like the deck or not, connect with it or not. The only thing I can say is that IMVHO BBC's Judgement card is the best Judgement card around. It is the less depressing, the most positive, colour-speaking comfortable (I hate angels with blueish faces that can be seen sometimes). Our old lady cat was very very sick last summer, just at the time the deck was going to be published. Seeing our lady cat getting worse and worse depressed me so deeply and the only light I could find at this moment didn't come from the vet or the support of my family but from this card. As a cat lover, I cannot think of any better way of imagining my beloved friends' departures... Kissa

Ace	07 Nov 2004
Dead Star wrote: I've had the Baroque Bohemian Cats' Tarot for a little while, and I love it--I think it's beautiful and though I haven't had really much time for tarot lately I would love to use it for readings. But I have trouble reading it emotionally when I see certain cards. I am a very big animal lover--and cats are way up there on my list of lovables. Certain, shall we say, negative cards in the deck, such as the 3 of Swords, 5 of Swords, 8 of Swords, 10 of Swords, 10 of Pentacles, 5 of Cups, and the Devil, make me very sad when I look at them. Even some of the other cards, such as the Wheel of Fortune, 8 of Cups, the Hermit, 10 of Wands, 5 of Pentacles, and 9 of cups, also trouble me somewhat, even if it's not exactly sadness they bring about--although maybe I should read what the book has to say about these cards. The reason is because in all of these cards, to me, the cats look either troubled, bitter (9 of Cups), or just downright sad! It may not be the cats at all, but the emotional messages these cards are sending you as part of your reading with them. You may be communicating via this deck on a deeper or different level than you are used to and you find it upseting. Myself, I went back to look at the swords cards to see what you mean. I found the 3 of swords cat looking rather smug and smirky to me, like ("I'LL get you yet!") and I have always felt the persian on the 4 of pentacles looks so wonderfully annoyed and possessive! I find it charming but for you it is difficult. It may be because it works SO WELL.

Tarot Sparrow	07 Nov 2004
Quote: I find it charming but for you it is difficult. It may be because it works SO WELL. It does work well, that's the problem! :D But I think I'm warming up to it now with all this wonderful feedback. Quote: Our old lady cat was very very sick last summer, just at the time the deck was going to be published. Seeing our lady cat getting worse and worse depressed me so deeply and the only light I could find at this moment didn't come from the vet or the support of my family but from this card. As a cat lover, I cannot think of any better way of imagining my beloved friends' departures... Kissa, that is lovely. What a wonderful way to think about it. I think you all have put me in a more positive light, I look forward to using this deck now...it's just nerves perhaps...

baba-prague	08 Nov 2004
Dead Star. I just wanted to say again that I DO relate to what you are saying. I found the deck just too emotional myself in one particular reading - it is a deck that doesn't know how to hide what it feels, if you know what I mean. It can purr and it can scratch perhaps? I also understand what you mean about the look on some of the cats' faces - but well, we did see some very sad cats at the rescue home here, and we didn't want a "fluffy" deck, but rather one that acknowledges all the facets of life. Ill treatment of animals makes me terribly angry and by blurring the edges (are these cats, or people in cat form, or cats in people form or ...?) the images do tend to combine some of the strong feelings we have for animals with some of our own human experience - and that's a powerful and rather surreal mix. But it's hard to get this right for every user - and we wouldn't expect it to work for everyone. I think we will always do work that is quite strong in its emotions - it's just the way our work comes out (and one reason perhaps that Tarot of Prague has attracted - as most people here know - a web stalker, as well as a lot of loyal users - love and, unfortunately, hate?) So, I just wanted to be quite clear that I'm not dismissing what you say - and in fact I'm very glad that you say it, as it's good to hear all the different feedback - we need to hear this you know. But basically, I don't want to feel that the cards in any way upset anyone - challenge yes, upset no. :-)

Tarot Sparrow	08 Nov 2004
baba-prague wrote: I also understand what you mean about the look on some of the cats' faces - but well, we did see some very sad cats at the rescue home here, and we didn't want a "fluffy" deck, but rather one that acknowledges all the facets of life. Ill treatment of animals makes me terribly angry and by blurring the edges (are these cats, or people in cat form, or cats in people form or ...?) the images do tend to combine some of the strong feelings we have for animals with some of our own human experience - and that's a powerful and rather surreal mix. So, I just wanted to be quite clear that I'm not dismissing what you say - and in fact I'm very glad that you say it, as it's good to hear all the different feedback - we need to hear this you know. But basically, I don't want to feel that the cards in any way upset anyone - challenge yes, upset no. :-) Very true. But the cards don't upset me per se, I upset myself with my own emotional connection to animals. The cards are beautiful and I love them. It's just my own inhibitions that are a problem sometimes. I also hate the treatment of animals, when I see a sad cat it reminds me of the shelters and thigns like that, which hurts me to think of them because every time I go to one to get a new kitty or just to look at the animals, I always want to bring them all home with me and it pains me to know what will happen to a lot of them. I wish our society wouldn't kill animals like this and I wish a lot more people would adopt from shelters. But I just want you to know that I enjoy this deck and after all this support I think I'll be able to use it now without getting too upset. Thanks again and congrats on a great deck :)

The BBC Tarot & Others - Sadness While Reading? thread was originally posted on 06 Nov 2004 in the Tarot Decks board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Decks, or read more archived threads.