Keep on Dreaming

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 02 Nov 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

cirom	02 Nov 2004
I've just added four more images to my web site from the Tarot of Dreams. http://www.ciromarchetti.com/ciro/t_dreams/t_dreams_home.html If anyone is interested in receiving more regular updates on this project and having access to view a fuller selection of images from this deck, just send me an e-mail.

WolfyJames	02 Nov 2004
Talking about dreaming, when the deck will come out, will it be as expensive as the first version of the Gilded? If it is the case, I'm afraid I will have to keep dreaming about it.

cirom	02 Nov 2004
Quote: Originally posted by WolfyJames will it be as expensive as the first version of the Gilded? If it is the case, I'm afraid I will have to keep dreaming about it. WolfyJames, both this and a response you posted on an earlier occasion seem to suggest you are less than convinced by this project. After numerous hours invested in these images to date, I was hoping for feedback from that perspective, (yes even critisim) is price your only comment? The first version of the Gilded as you know were hand made, and took many hours to produce. Expence is relative to that input and corresponding quality of materials used. I'm satisfied to say that all who bought one have indicated that they are happy with their purchace. But to answer your question. No the Tarot of Dreams will not be in that price range, as it won't be produced in the same way. It will be considerably less expensive. There won't be any wooden poses either :-)

shadowdancer	02 Nov 2004
I love the Gilded tarot - it is up there as one of my favourite decks. Could you let me know if you are near to posting a few more cards on your webiste? Also, do you have a rough idea of when they are likely to be made available for general sale? In the meantime, good luck with the project! In anticipation. Davina

dolphinprincess	02 Nov 2004
Cirom- The deck is beautiful - but I LOVE the Moon! How beautiful and mesmerizing :)

shadowdancer	02 Nov 2004
Ignore part of my last.....lol now re-read it and seen the images. I caught my breath when I saw the moon and the chariot. They are awesome. The wolf is amongst my favourite of animals, so I was pleasantly thrilled to see they had been included. Take care, and again all the best for the remainder of the project Davina

rabble	02 Nov 2004
These really are beautiful. However long it takes for this deck to be completed, will surely be worth it. Quote: Originally posted by cirom The first version of the Gilded as you know were hand made, and took many hours to produce. Expence is relative to that input and corresponding quality of materials used. I'm satisfied to say that all who bought one have indicated that they are happy with their purchace. But to answer your question. No the Tarot of Dreams will not be in that price range, as it won't be produced in the same way. It will be considerably less expensive. Is there a thread anywhere, or have you documented on your site, the process you used to create your hand made decks?

WolfyJames	02 Nov 2004
Quote: Originally posted by cirom WolfyJames, both this and a response you posted on an earlier occasion seem to suggest you are less than convinced by this project. After numerous hours invested in these images to date, I was hoping for feedback from that perspective, (yes even critisim) is price your only comment? It's not that I'm not convinced and that I don't like what you do, on the contrary, and I find that even very sad to see how poor artists are, and how much money publishers make. I discovered it when I decided to become a writer and noticed I was just going to get 5 to 10% of the profit. Of course, in the book, the author tries to tell you how legit the parasites are but I still haven't swallowed it yet. The problem is that I'm poor. With 800$CA (650$US) a month, I have to be careful what I do with my money. Now it's better than a few years ago because I had less and I lacked of so many basic stuff. Now, I have the basic stuff and I can invest elsewhere, the stuff that isn't necessary, the fun stuff. :D Last year, I saved all my money all year long and bought myself a very neat computer for Christmas, which I'm very proud of. :) I acquired lately the I Tarocchi Gitani. At 60$US it was too expensive for me, I noticed it a while ago and didn't even put it in my wishlist, but I got it in a reverse auction at Tarot Garden at 32$US. :) As for your tarot, when you were working at first on it, I liked the images, but when I was told the price, I never went there ever again. I don't like seeing constantly stuff I can never have. I had erased it so well from my memory that I didn't understand people's enthousiasm for the market version. When I checked it out, I recognized it and was glad to see it was affordable (for me). I got it in a trade, by the way, and my critics about it were less harsh than the first owner of the deck. ;) You should say on your website how much you plan to sell the Tarot of Dreams, to give an idea to people, and to me, how much it would be. I could save some money each month, and once the deck would be published, I could check out how much I have saved and how much more I need. I don't remember the price of the Gilded, but I think 2 or 3 zeros were involved: 300$? 500$? more?

lunakasha	02 Nov 2004
Thanks for the update and new images, Ciro.....I am among the many here who are anxiously awaiting release of this deck!!! :D I agree with dolphinprincess....the Moon card is absolutely GORGEOUS!!! The Moon is my favorite card anyway....and I love wolves too, so this one really took my breath away.... WolfyJames: I can understand where you are coming from....my financial situation has been pretty dire lately, and it is frustrating to find a deck you love that is way out of your price range. However, I can attest to the high quality of the Limited Edition Gilded, and although I was very lucky to have had mine gifted by an anonymous ATF member....I do feel that it was well worth the price. Which is not to say that everyone can afford it....just that the price for producing a handmade, high-quality deck can get pretty high. I think Ciro did a great job with this deck....no complaints here. Having said that, I am happy to hear that the Tarot of Dreams will be more affordably priced, for poor folk like me, hehehe!!! :) Luna

rosyelf	02 Nov 2004
Ciro, I am really looking forward to the completion of this project. Whenever-I know such work takes time. I too love the wolves on the Moon card. And the Sun embodies so well the bright MALE energy of this card. And I'm interested and intrigued to note that you have depicted Justice as a man not a woman-don't think I've ever seen that before. best wishes and, yes, I'm still enjoying my precious Gilded deck rosyelf

Kahlie	02 Nov 2004
I really love the Tarot of Dreams... The bad part is that I would be buying the gilded but will wait for the Tarot of Dreams. (Limited funds as a student). The only other minor criticism is the following: The borders all have different colours, and the checkered pattern behind the name is a bit too busy for me to truly concentrate on the art. I don't know if anybody else has this problem, but I certainly do. It's truly marvelous, and I will be keeping my eye on it =)

Little Baron	02 Nov 2004
Ciro, your artwork is beautiful - both decks. I love the 'Moon' and 'Emperor' cards from this one. So deep and mesmorising. Congrats. Ya

cirom	02 Nov 2004
Quote: Originally posted by WolfyJames You should say on your website how much you plan to sell the Tarot of Dreams, to give an idea to people, and to me, how much it would be. I could save some money each month, and once the deck would be published, I could check out how much I have saved and how much more I need. I don't remember the price of the Gilded, but I think 2 or 3 zeros were involved: 300$? 500$? more? The reason I haven't indicated a price on my web site, is because I don't have one yet. I will be publishing this project myself, not through a major publisher. There is still approximately four to five months of work just on the illustrations. For production I will probably be using a slightly thicker card than say the Gilded, and the cards will be bigger. Along with a smaller print run than the standard commercial decks. So there are several unknown factors here. Then there is the programing involved to produce the CD, animation, interactivity, music, voice overs etc etc. I believe I'm breaking new ground here at least within the context of the tarot. So I simply don't know. Therefore I'd rather delay announcing prices now and avoid the risk of having to announce a different one later. If you care to e-mail me I will keep you informed. I appreciate that the vast majority of tarot collectors could neither afford or justify the expense of a limited edition Gilded. It was never assumed that they would, simpy an option for some. I glad that you managed to obtain one in a trade. Hopefully you enjoy it, that the main thing. Which was the point of my previous post. Do you have any comments about the images of the Tarot of Dreams rather than the cost? Thats the purpose of my showing them, get feedback from the community and with time still available, possibly modify things.

Moonbow*	02 Nov 2004
Ciro..... you have done it again... Fabulous deck, I have never seen any other deck (other than the Gilded) that uses the colours you do. It's that turquoise-y colour that I just love. Another vote for the Moon here, but I also love the Chariot which is usually not one of my favourite cards......... the horses are truely magical Moonbow*

cirom	02 Nov 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Kahlie The only other minor criticism is the following: The borders all have different colours, and the checkered pattern behind the name is a bit too busy for me to truly concentrate on the art. I don't know if anybody else has this problem, but I certainly do. It's truly marvelous, and I will be keeping my eye on it =) That is a good point, and a feature I'm aware of and may be re considering. The borders, both their colours and symbols do have rational to them, which will be fully explained in the CD, but nevertheless I may tone down the colour so they don't visually compete with the images themselves.

WolfyJames	02 Nov 2004
Quote: Originally posted by cirom Do you have any comments about the images of the Tarot of Dreams rather than the cost? Thats the purpose of my showing them, get feedback from the community and with time still available, possibly modify things. Sure! Your cards are lovely and breathtaking. I'm speachless. The only issue I have is with the Death card. I find it freaky and scary. I used to read this collection of horror books when I was a teenager (15 years ago), the books were filled with demons, ghosts, zombies, vampires, witches, curses... and the covers were well done and chilling. There was a cover that was very similar to your Death card. And when I look at your card, I shiver with fear. Is it the effect you were looking for? The Death card is usually one of my favorite among the majors. I find the Death card of the Gilded quite lovely with the skeleton holding the black flag with the white rose, sending a hopeful message. Which makes me wonder what you had in mind when you created the Death in your Tarot of Dreams.

cirom	02 Nov 2004
Quote: Originally posted by WolfyJames Sure! The only issue I have is with the Death card. I find it freaky and scary. . Interesting! I didn't want it to come across quite that strongly. I feel it will work on the CD as the image will cycle through a sequence of death and re-birth. The tree in the background, and the dead leaves on the floor will all change from green to brown etc etc. Even the snake, a creature that sheds its skin is used to re-inforce that message. Nevertheless I'll bear your comments in mind before deciding on a final version of the actual card. Having said that, considering your reaction to this card you're going to hate the devil image when you see it.

Cerulean	02 Nov 2004
I was sad to see Justice was blind in the card version--I guessed that she would be 11 in a RWS based deck. Sometimes when I see Justice with her eyes shut in an older deck, I still can imagine the eyes...but the blur on the face seems to have a being without eyes. Perhaps in the animation it's a eyeblink or possibly it is logical to be eyeless in the sequence of the card storyline? I didn't mind Death, it was somber, but I could see it in a reading and I don't think I would be frightened. Justice does seem to have made an unusual impression on me. Of course there are many beautiful cards, especially the Aces and Knights that I saw. I like the way they look---perhaps it is the way my screen shows the cards, but I think the color schemes for the minors seem richer to me because they seem analagous (similar color families). Thanks for the peek. Cerulean

WolfyJames	02 Nov 2004
Quote: Originally posted by cirom Having said that, considering your reaction to this card you're going to hate the devil image when you see it. No sexy toy boy like in the Gilded? :D

starsongs	02 Nov 2004
Cirom, 2 of my favorite cards so far are the Knights. Knight of Cups astride a Seahorse and Knight of Wands riding a Dragon really feel right. Love the astrological wheels in the background. The colorings are beautiful too... thanks for the preview...:-) starsongs

Gerbear	02 Nov 2004
Although feedback from the community is probably valuable, I think you should stay mainly with your vision. As we are all on a path of enlightenment, those with issues concerning any one facet of your deck, must realize that they have one more barrier to break down, one more obstacle in their mind, that prevents them from advancing.

HOLMES	02 Nov 2004
i loved your gilded ,, however i didnt' buy it,, i got it as a birthday gift from someone in the states. i looked for it every time i went to winnipeg, yet it never happend. i wouldn't put out 65 bucks for the quest tarot, and i am not going to pay 350 bucks for your limited edition tarot of dreams.(using the price of your limited gilded tarot as guideline i know you didnt' name a price ) I AM SPEAKING AS MAJORITY OF POOR TAROT USERS . not to insult you.. i mean 65 canadian will get me two tarot admitedly without books. YOUR ARTWORK is awesome, i am sure if you talk to llewyn now,, they will help you out. although i heard that they made robinwood signed a contract that she never release a deck to compete against the robin wood,, if they made you sign such a copy,, you could away says this won't compete ,, it will just enchance by reputation the quality of both decks. now i love your artwork however on the judgement card there is no horn , (why can't it be a guitar or fiddle i don't know eheh ) perhaps you can augment it by having musical notes coming from the judgement card.. as the song of the creation is made. ? i dont' see nothing scary about the devil card just took me a min to realize it was a snake instead of a metal structure he was trying to make into something. anyhow, please think of us poor (in my case cheap for i am going to put 450 for the afa super natal astrology course but not that much for a deck, ) souls and work out a deal with a publisher. :) (LLEWYEN WOULD BE NUTS NOT TO TAKE YOUR NEW DECK AND SO WOULD LO SCARABO, OR US GAMES)

Lee	03 Nov 2004
Hi holmes, don't worry, as Ciro has already said, the Tarot of Dreams is not comparable to the Gilded Tarot Limited Edition. The Tarot of Dreams will be produced using a different process and will be considerably less expensive. Also, please be assured that Ciro is self-publishing his deck because he wants to, not because of fears of rejection from publishers, who I'm sure would be delighted to have a chance to publish his work! -- Lee

The Keep on Dreaming thread was originally posted on 02 Nov 2004 in the Tarot Decks board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Decks, or read more archived threads.