Osho-Zen Tarot

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 13 Nov 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Deus Ex Machina	13 Nov 2004
A few weeks ago I was absolutely determined to get the Osho-Zen Tarot. I can't say why exactly - maybe the art, maybe the non-traditional trumps and suits, but something about it hit me the right way. Now I'm not sure - i like Zen and its teachings, but I'm not sure how I feel about Osho, he seems a bit arrogant and...culty. The deck seemed perfect, but I don't know now whether I should get it or not. As I mentioned in an earlier thread, I'm interested in using Tarot cards for creative writing. I'm not sure of Osho Zen's focus on personal growth would be the best thing for that, but at the same time, the fact that all of the cards are named with concepts rather than numbers, suits and kings/queens/knights/pages makes them appealing from a writer's perspective. Does anyone have an opinion that might help me make up my mind?

darwinia	13 Nov 2004
Deus Ex Machina wrote: Does anyone have an opinion that might help me make up my mind? Yup. I'll tell you what people told me about Aleister Crowley and the Thoth--think about the artist Frieda Harris. It worked, and it's now a favourite deck of mine. So, with regard to the Osho Zen, think about Ma Deva Padma and her wonderful art and the thoughts translated through her art. Osho was a typical guru, heavy on the bafflegab, and fond of culling cant from every other major religion in the world, but I think there are Universal truths that apply to the human experience and it doesn't matter who says them, they are true. That has nothing to do with Osho, and yet these truths are reflected in the Osho Zen Tarot.

Chronata	13 Nov 2004
Osho Zen...worth the price if only for the beautiful art, the new take on tarot suits and the great readings it gives. If in doubt...don't use the companion book...but just intuitively interpret the cards. And yes...an excellent deck for storytelling, and help with any creative process.

Alta	13 Nov 2004
I like this deck very much. I removed the Master card, and use the deck as it is. Not quite tarot, but not really an oracle. It is well imagined and takes you very far. I would think it is excellent for the creative process.

magpie9	13 Nov 2004
I've had this deck for a few years, and plan to never be without it. It is SO GOOD. It's very straightforward and honest, direct but gentle. I don't really quite see it as a tarot, and I don't do that translation bit in my head, (5 rainbows, Um, that's 5 Pents,) and this lets me perceive it clearly as just itself--more of an Oracle deck to me. I have resisted "learning" the "meanings" for the cards so that they come to me each time as still new and fresh. I never do big layouts with it, it dosn't seem to need to have many cards out to speak clearly. the Master card does not trouble me as it does many. I use it as the Hierophant (nobody ever said you had to agree with the hierophants teachings, attitudes, etc...) I read the card numbered 5 how its explained in the book, which never seemed very hierophant-ish to me in the first place. It strikes me that it must be a wonderful thing for Ma Deva Padma to have had the experience of meeting her great teacher in person. To me, this deck is like looking at colored stones below still water, that wonderful clarity, that enterance into another world. It speaks directly to my heart and spirit, even though my spiritual path is very different. Truth is truth, wisdom is wisdom, where ever you find it. I think that it would lbe very interesting and useful as a writing tool. Except if you're wanting to plot Action Stories or Thrillers with it... :D

tatsi	04 Dec 2004
This is a beautfiul deck. It is worth buying just for the artwork itself. I agree that it's not a true Tarot, but it has more Tarot-ness than most Oracles. It is somewhere in between. I'd classify it as "Oracle-like-Tarot". I know people who love the deck, but not the Osho-ness imposed in this set and I agree. If you feel the same way, you could do the following. First, remove the 79th card: The Master, which is a rendering of Osho himself. For me the card seems out of place and shoe-horned into this set. Second, you could stick with the book's more straight-forward card interpretations OR don't use the companion book. Many people prefer not to use companion books* for their interpretations, preferring to use their intuition of the images themselves. And then referring to the book to see if the author's meaning matches or somehow enhances their intuitive meaning. It's also nice to know what went into a card's image and why. Sometimes, this in and of itself will enhance your intuitive interpretation. It's a personal choice. Oh, and by the way this deck IS excellent for storytelling and such. * This philosophy applies to other Tarot decks AND not just the Osho Zen Tarot. tatsi

Sparrow	04 Dec 2004
darwinia wrote: Osho was a typical guru, heavy on the bafflegab, and fond of culling cant from every other major religion in the world, but I think there are Universal truths that apply to the human experience and it doesn't matter who says them, they are true. That has nothing to do with Osho, and yet these truths are reflected in the Osho Zen Tarot. I agree. The art inspires the imagination, particulary as it is non-Western. Go for it. Good luck.

WhiteWolf	13 Jan 2005
I thought I would add a few thoughts here regarding the Osho Zen Tarot. As you might have noticed, it is my primary reading deck (when reading for others) and I use it for myself as well in addition to several others. I highly recommend getting this deck, even if you are drawn to it by the artwork alone - that's what sucked me in! I do want to state something clearly about this deck, at least from my perspective. First of all, I do not follow the teachings of Osho - he quite turns me off, actually. I do think he's arrogant and there seems to be a lack of spiritual or emotional depth to his philosophies and teachings. As you may notice, there is an additional 79th card entitled "The Master" and it is a painting of Osho himself. I use it as a bookmark. Although the painting is well done, I prefer to have him out of the deck. The card has never spoken clearly and I always get his weird vibe from it. The cards have worked just fine since I took it out. Ma Deva Padma, the artist and author (excluding the Osho exerpts), is brilliant in my eyes. Sometimes the student surpasses the teacher and she seems to radiate an added emotional depth to his dry teachings. I am grateful for Osho for whatever he may have offered other people, especially Ma Deva Padma!... but for me, I resonate not with his teachings! I am not a Zen practitioner (although I appreciate the philosophy) but I am very well aquainted with the cards and would encourage anyone who feels a tug to buy them to do so. I can't imagine you'd be disappointed.

fyreflye	13 Jan 2005
-delete-

rosyelf	13 Jan 2005
I too love the art in this deck, and I too am turned off by Osho himself, who comes over as arrogant, culty and-in my opinion-rather sinister. He is better known as the Bhagwan Rajneesh, who was clearly corrupt on various levels, not above amassing dozens of limousines -paid for by his devotees-and not above various forms of, shall we say, inappropriate sexual behaviour. HOWEVER, I do like the deck itself. In fact, I gave it away a couple of years ago and hope shortly to replace it.I took from the book what spoke to me. . .and left the rest. And I NEVER used the Master card, because it gave me the heebie-jeebies. I think the advice to concentrate on the artist herself is excellent.:) love rosyelf

WhiteWolf	13 Jan 2005
Hi Rosy, I couldn't find much credence in Osho's lifestyle either! lol I tried, I really did! He seems more like some weird concoction of an irresponsible zen hippy! I'm actually quite pleased to hear that someone else felt the inclination to remove the Master card from the deck. Also, just as pleased to know you understand how this deck is very valuable despite the Osho influences. Ma Deva Padma has another deck out called the Tao Oracle which is also beautiful, but I couldn't relate to it very easily. If you're interested, here's the link: http://www.taoracle.com/ Take care, WhiteWolf

Moongold	13 Jan 2005
Hi Deux ex Machina ~ I think this deck is so beautiful, but thrilling as well. Images such as "Trust" and the "Fool" simply take your breath away. Like others, I don't use the Mastercard at all. The deck gives gentle but accurate readings, and acompletely fresh perspective. For creative purposes, and everyone has different needs here, this deck places one in a quiet and reflective space. It clears the rubbish out and helps create a space where useful thoughts come easily. Best wishes ~

rosyelf	13 Jan 2005
Thanks, Whitewolf. The few scans I've seen of this do appeal. I think this will go on my wishlist. I am trying at the moment not to explore too many philosophies at the same time LOL. what an interesting thread. Puts me in mind of the can-you-work-with-Thoth-even-if-you-don't-like-the-sound-of-Crowley debate. But whereas I have worked with the OSHO ZEN deck and will do so again, I found the Crowley Thoth rather. . .disturbing. I know it's "difficult", all that symbolism, but that's not it-Haindl is "difficult" too, and I love that deck. The person behind the deck DOES matter. Especially if they are an extreme personality in some way. All the more credit to the Osho Zen artist for somehow transcending the Osho-ness . Of course , this is only my opinion, and I don't want to upset anyone who has received great blessings from this or any other guru. Slightly off-thread, I think I read somewhere that the creators of Songs of the Journey Home were once Osho devotees who became disillusioned-I don't know the details. The few scans I've seen of that deck lead me to feel it is a very individual deck indeed, not at all culty. love to all, rosyelf

September Pixie	13 Jan 2005
I will pretty much second everything thats already been said here.. buy the deck, don't read the book, and toss the master if you want to erase the 'Osho' from it.. but I find the deck beautiful the way it is.. the book isn't too preachy in my opinion but if you find it to be.. dont use it.. I don't use the book and neither does my sister in law .. and quite honestly.. it reminds me of the whole Thoth thing.. I don't have to know anything about Crowley to use the thoth.. I can hear arguments about missed symbolism but you do NOT need to know it to read it.. same for Osho.

WhiteWolf	13 Jan 2005
Hello again, Rosy, rosyelf wrote: Thanks, Whitewolf. The few scans I've seen of this do appeal. I think this will go on my wishlist. I am trying at the moment not to explore too many philosophies at the same time LOL. what an interesting thread. Puts me in mind of the can-you-work-with-Thoth-even-if-you-don't-like-the-sound-of-Crowley debate. But whereas I have worked with the OSHO ZEN deck and will do so again, I found the Crowley Thoth rather. . .disturbing. I know it's "difficult", all that symbolism, but that's not it Not a problem! It's a beautiful deck and is a nice take on the I-Ching. I can't agree with you more about the Crowley Tarot. The reason I bought it was simply for it's title - Thoth Tarot. At the time I was interested in this Egyptian god and thought the tarot deck looked interesting. When I got it, not knowing anything about Crowley, I felt VERY uncomfortable with it. The art is well done and beautiful, but what came to mind immediately was "dark" - in the energetic sense of the word. I happen to like dark imagery and gothic style, but this was a deeper dark that made me uncomfortable. I may have done one reading with it before I decided to give it to someone who could appreciate it more. Then I learned more about Crowley and it made a bit more sense. No disrespect to those who like him or the deck, of course. I realize that he has made a contribution to the occult and tarot world, but... you know what? I don't like jazz but I love some of the music influenced by jazz! Take care, WhiteWolf

Emily	14 Jan 2005
I like the Osho Zen too - I remember when I first took delivery of it and all the cards were out of order - it took me ages, at least a few hours if i can think that far back, to get them all back in order and counted and because they were non-traditional it made it all harder. But once I had spent so long with them by the time it was done I'd familiarised myself with the whole deck. I always leave the Master card in but I've never had it in a reading. I don't look on it as a tarot either for me it's more of an oracle deck. I knew nothing of Osho Zen himself and am not in the least bit religious but what little bit of the books I have read I do like them. I agree he does write like a teacher/Guide but the books read with an open mind are very interesting. The second book that came out is all new material about the cards with nothing duplicated from the first older book - but I don't think you need the books to read the cards, the artwork of the Osho is so beautiful and inspiring you wouldn't need anyone elses interpretations to read them. :)

Cielo	14 Jan 2005
Well,- I'm a big fan of the Osho Zen deck (and also of Osho the person, not necessarily the Guru,- as my signiture might give away :D....). It was the first deck I got and one I used for many years before getting the regular RWS clones. I have also removed the Master card and it has given me incredibly accurate readings over the years, it's been communicating directly with my intuition in ways no other deck has since. I love the art and I love the positive vibes I get from it. But I also love Osho and don't find him neither a typical guru nor arrogant,- that might appear so on the sufface but it's worth to read his books in order to get to know his philosophy on a deeper level. Just for the record, I do not practice Zen and have no desire to, but I do recognize that he has a very interesting way of portraying what would be considered universal truths....One does not have to agree with everything he has to say, nor does one have to embrace everything that he stood for, like with every other philosophy or religion, this is what is so great about the human mind and spirit,- we get to choose what fits and improves our lives, the rest we can just put aside.:) I don't think you will be disappointed in the deck, whether you improve of Osho as a teacher or guru or however you choose to view him. In the end, it's just a beautiful deck with wonderful energy. Blessed be all! Cielo

rosyelf	14 Jan 2005
Whitewolf, that's fascinating-that you got this weird feeling off the deck before you knew ANYTHING about Crowley himself. I really do believe people leave their energies in the things they have made and the places they have been-positive or negative. Cielo, thank you. Your differentiation between the person and the guru is a helpful one. As for Thoth the Egyptian god, I'm going off to check him out ! I've got really interested in Egyptian religion in the last few months, but I don't know much about Thoth. Except that he was very important.

skh	14 Jan 2005
I first learned about Osho when he was still alive and called himself Bhagwan. I was a child, and some friends of my parents went to Poona, India and came back changed and orange-clad. It was not a happy sight, and I remember the cult to yield rather selfish followers gladly leaving family and friends behind to begin their true life and path to enlightenment, no matter what. Maybe we were prejudiced or just "didn't get" it. I don't want to judge (I can't anyway, nobody can judge the spiritual path of another), but I still carry heavy scepticism to Osho and his teachings with me from that time. But: I love the deck. I even love the book, and some of the snippets from his writings cited in there really touch me with nuggets of wisdom, or comfort, or new insight. Some cards make me smile as they feel like fast-food Zen for westerners to me (Ice-Olation), and very few I don't like at all (Mind). I still can only read Osho in these small doses (I tried a book, too, but stopped reading after a few pages). I don't think what he taught is Zen, though I'm very ignorant on that scale anyway. I'm still suspicious. But everything has at least two sides. Sonja

Skydancer	14 Jan 2005
Quote: To me, this deck is like looking at colored stones below still water. I really like the way you worded it - I agree. Which is probably why I like the way you worded it. ! As for writing, I think the cards are a great inspiration. Many images - some you atune with right away, and others you see later. Some you don't see at all. Makes for a fine story starter. I am still connecting with it as well as the Tao - but they are both on my "10 to buy back" list! Just my 2˘ ~ *S*

WhiteWolf	14 Jan 2005
Hi Cielo :-) Cielo wrote: One does not have to agree with everything he has to say, nor does one have to embrace everything that he stood for, like with every other philosophy or religion, this is what is so great about the human mind and spirit,- we get to choose what fits and improves our lives, the rest we can just put aside.:) You know, I have to agree with this statement completely. First of all, although I can't say I care for Osho much from what I've read about him, I have read some insightful things by him. I don't adhere to his teachings as a whole, but like you said.. we choose what fits and as a good friend of mine says.. with a breath of kindness, blow the rest away. Thank you for sharing your thoughts, they are much appreciated :-). Toksha, WhiteWolf

WhiteWolf	14 Jan 2005
On a slightly different note, there is one particular card in the deck that was the most difficult to get to know and I still can't find much interpretive value in it except for what I know in the book. I don't have the cards in front of me right now, but I believe it's the 6 of Rainbows (Pentacles) where it has the two identical men on the cover, both are samurais with disgruntled looks - I think the card is called Compromise. I'd spend quite a bit of time trying to interpret this card before I gave up and looked it up in the book - in fact, I'm still trying to remember what the book said lol. I think it had something to do with using castrated criminals in the legal system but I can't remember how that applies. Anyways, I would love it if anyone has any of their own interpretations on this card or if you simply want to express your mutual feelings lol. WhiteWolf

northsea	14 Jan 2005
They may be looking at the RiderWaite image of two men receiving coins as ...graft. So the keyword "Compromise" would be compromising principles to receive money that should be going to people in need...like a grant program that sends money to rich folks.

magpie9	14 Jan 2005
I think the "compromise" of the 6 Rainbows is literal. they are dressed like Samuri, swords and all. They seem to me unhappy and angry, and like they would rather fight it out, but for some reason (society or Boss's or other authoritys' demands?) have been refused permission to do that. So they are in the act of agreeing to a specific compromise, which niether really likes, but both will honor. The linked/touching pinkie fingers are the pledge. The "word" they give will be good. It seems to me that a lot of time in this deck the corespondences to the "traditional" RWS meanings are not used.

cSpaceDiva	15 Jan 2005
I too am an admirer of the Osho Zen deck and the one other book I have read by Osho, No Water No Moon. I don't use the Master card, not because of negativity, just because it doesn't fit with the rest of the deck. rosyelf wrote: Slightly off-thread, I think I read somewhere that the creators of Songs of the Journey Home were once Osho devotees who became disillusioned-I don't know the details. The few scans I've seen of that deck lead me to feel it is a very individual deck indeed, not at all culty. I also read with Songs for the Journey Home, and in that book the creators describe their experiences as devotees and how creating this deck was part of the healing process. You are correct that it is not at all culty, in fact, I don't recall the words Zen or Buddhism being mentioned at all, except for the creators personal stories. However, one who is familiar with Zen principles will recognize them in this book. WhiteWolf wrote: On a slightly different note, there is one particular card in the deck that was the most difficult to get to know and I still can't find much interpretive value in it except for what I know in the book. I don't have the cards in front of me right now, but I believe it's the 6 of Rainbows (Pentacles) where it has the two identical men on the cover, both are samurais with disgruntled looks - I think the card is called Compromise. Ironically, I think this card may describe some of those in Osho's organization. It is saying not to compromise your own set of values or your own truth. If you do, don't be surprised if you find yourself in a, well, compromising situation. My take is that the characters on this card are engaged in some dirty dealing that will be mutually beneficial, but only if it is not made public.

The Osho-Zen Tarot thread was originally posted on 13 Nov 2004 in the Tarot Decks board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Decks, or read more archived threads.