Celtic Wisdom Makeover

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 13 Jan 2005, and now archived in the Forum Library.

RedMaple	13 Jan 2005
After being very uncomfortable with the suits of this deck, I made the decision to trim off the bottom border with the words, and the deck is now beautiful and unencumbered. Matthews made the decision to change the suits to Battle, Art, Skill and Knowledge, thus taking away all the resonance of the images of Swords, Cups, Wands, and Pentacles, and replacing them with abstractions that limit the meanings of the cards. Then she replaces the numbers with words that are just so cumbersome, my brain hurts. What exactly is "combat of battle?" Maybe this kind of word-play juxtapositions work for some people, but for me, it just muddies the waters. It reminds me of the worst of graduate school -- words that obscure rather than reveal, words that make things unnecessarily difficult. So, off with them! Now I'm wondering whether i want to get a little stamp kit and stamp numbers and symbols on the cards themselves, to give my memory a jolt, and connect the images to the Tarot I know. I can't say enough good things about the beauty of the images. This may be another example of a brilliant artist, Olivia Rayner, teamed up with a way-too-intellectual-and-ambitious tarotist. From now on, I'll refer to it as the Rayner Celtic Wisdom, (sans words.) :) I haven't read with it yet, and need to trim the corners -- but I feel relaxed now looking at the cards, they feel right. I'm looking forward to using them for a reading.

Dark Inquisitor	13 Jan 2005
Oooo- shocking !! I am tempted to do similar things to decks too . But I think I will give the CW more time and try to learn the ins & outs before taking any action. I am looking at it almost more like an oracle based on tarot , and perhaps a method of teaching me to think in new ways and learn some different concepts . It's hard though . So many different new tarots changing things around. Impossible to keep up on them all.

SongDeva	13 Jan 2005
I just read with the pretty pictures. hehehehehehe

darwinia	13 Jan 2005
Just ordered it, thanks for giving me a nudge as I've been keeping a print-out of this in my purse since July of last year. While tempting to trim decks, I would find the lack of precision worse than reading the keywords etc. that might annoy me. I also bought The Power Deck and the Well-Being Cards and a book called The Zen of Seeing which is about drawing. You know, you have to order extra to get the free shipping. (cough)

Imagemaker	13 Jan 2005
Ok, I ordered it too, with an extra thing or two for free shipping. It's a plot, and I'm in deep!

darwinia	13 Jan 2005
Imagemaker wrote: Ok, I ordered it too, with an extra thing or two for free shipping. It's a plot, and I'm in deep! It's the C-W3 meme: You order the Celtic Wisdom deck and then have to buy three other things to get the free shipping, and this volume of items justifies the story you tell your significant other about the "research" project you are doing. I've been doing a lot of research, I'm a very hard worker.

RedMaple	14 Jan 2005
darwinia wrote: Just ordered it, thanks for giving me a nudge as I've been keeping a print-out of this in my purse since July of last year. While tempting to trim decks, I would find the lack of precision worse than reading the keywords etc. that might annoy me. I also bought The Power Deck and the Well-Being Cards and a book called The Zen of Seeing which is about drawing. You know, you have to order extra to get the free shipping. (cough) Hope you enjoy it. The lack of precision in the edges, you mean? I thought it might annoy me, too, but I find it is more like the edges of old books, which I always loved. It is precise enough to handle well, and now it feels hand-crafted, which I have always liked, so the slight irregularities actually add to a good feeling for me. If you need perfectly aligned edges, it could be a distraction. Off-topic: tell me about the Zen of Seeing.

RedMaple	14 Jan 2005
Imagemaker - I knew you lusted after this deck -- LOL Enjoy SongDeva - I'm just enjoying the pretty pictures now, too. How did you ignore the words? They just annoyed me so much.

Dark Inquisitor	14 Jan 2005
RedMaple wrote: The lack of precision in the edges, you mean? I thought it might annoy me, too, but I find it is more like the edges of old books, which I always loved. A very good and artful point !! I have had some precise success with a paper cutter though.Then one just has to round the corners by hand.

Fulgour	14 Jan 2005
I like Olivia Rayner. :)

darwinia	14 Jan 2005
RedMaple wrote: The lack of precision in the edges, you mean? Yes. I have terrible problems with arthritis and tendinitis, trust me when I say I would never cut any of my cards. I'm sure it's easy if you don't have physical problems but I know I'd wreck them big time. Anyway, I love to feel the smooth edges of cards--I rub them along my cheek--it's like getting a hug! Quote: Off-topic: tell me about the Zen of Seeing. I read about it in a book on creativity called The Creative Artist by Nita Leland. It's supposed to be similar to Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain by Betty Edwards but with a more spiritual outlook. Spiritual meaning a personal, reflective/meditative spirituality rather than straight Buddhism, although he uses "zen" in the title. Zen of Seeing : Seeing/Drawing as Meditation by FREDERICK FRANCK Paperback: 160 pages Publisher: Vintage (September 12, 1973) ISBN: 0394719689 As you can see, it's still in print 32 years later, which tells me something as well. Read the reviews at amazon.com. I find this approach to artwork works very well with tarot study, because tarot is about reflection and meditation to me, rather than divination. And thanks to Fulgour for posting the link to Olivia Rayner. Isn't she something? I think the artwork was what got me to buy the deck. I love illustrators, they do such wonderful work. The lady who did the Tree Magick deck is also a children's illustrator--lots of whimsy.

Imagemaker	14 Jan 2005
Zen of Seeing is still in print partly because Frederick Franck is still alive and producing at age 96. I met him 3 years ago when I visited his place in New York, Pacem in Terris. Amazing sculpture garden, ongoing concert series in an incredible mill-building, and more. Here's a link to an interview, of several on the web: Franck His work would translate wonderfully into a tarot deck!

RedMaple	14 Jan 2005
Yes, it is gorgeous. Thanks for the link.

darwinia	15 Jan 2005
Imagemaker wrote: Zen of Seeing is still in print partly because Frederick Franck is still alive and producing at age 96. Whew, a remarkable person. He's had a remarkable life and written many remarkable books. I respect people like this who make a difference. Quote: His work would translate wonderfully into a tarot deck! It sure would, both in artwork and writing. Still, you could make your own meditative deck and clip some of his pictures and collage some of his words and have a little deck containing his philosophy and "seeing." I get tired of the R-W mish-mash prettified up and regurgitated endlessly. I bet something based on Franck's work would also have some energy to it, some strength and value. It's NOW, not 1909, and Arthur Waite never met and worked with Albert Schweitzer! I've often thought that one reason Caitlin and John Matthews are so popular is that they write different things. There's nothing wrong with producing different decks with modern illustrations. Before a moderator decides we are merely "chatting," and deletes all this, I think it important to note, and I think it has relevance to the Celtic Wisdom deck. "Wisdom" did not stop in 1909.

Imagemaker	15 Jan 2005
Franck's art clearly comes without commercial agenda, dogma, or celebrity intent--so rare! And to have that connection to Schweitzer . . . he continues a line of true loving hearts. And he inspires more of the same.

RedMaple	15 Jan 2005
Imagemaker, I finally got a chance to read the Franck page, and I see where you got your name. Lovely. An incredible man, and story. His work would be amazing on Tarot cards, I agree.

Imagemaker	20 Jan 2005
Isn't he inspiring and amazing? My screen name doesn't come from him, though, it came out of a writing forum and my passion for metaphor and writing imagined scenes--making an image with words. But I'm honored to have any association with Franck! I got my Celtic Wisdom deck yesterday and read the book last night. Outstanding on card use. I especially like the questions she lists for digging into the meaning of a card. For those don't have the book, a sampling. The names in parens are what the Celtic Wisdom labels are: 0. Fool (Soul) Where are you seeking wisdom? 1. Magician (Decider) What is manifesting in your life? 2. High Priestess (Guardian) What is the source of your truth? 3. Empress (Shaper) What spiritual nurture is your soul seeking? 4. Emperor (Keeper) What is the source of your own authority? 5. Hierophant (Rememberer) What song is guiding you? 6. Lovers (Lover) Where is love in your life? 7. Chariot (Mover) Which energies need to be harnessed? 8. Empowerer (Strength) What power lies untapped in you? 9. Counselor (Hermit) What seeks to be born in the silence? 10. Wheel of Fortune (Spinner) What patterns are unfolding in your life?

RedMaple	21 Jan 2005
Imagemaker wrote: Isn't he inspiring and amazing? My screen name doesn't come from him, though, it came out of a writing forum and my passion for metaphor and writing imagined scenes--making an image with words. But I'm honored to have any association with Franck! That's funny. About half way down the page about him the words "image maker" appear -- and so naturally I made the association. LOL Quote: I got my Celtic Wisdom deck yesterday and read the book last night. Outstanding on card use. I especially like the questions she lists for digging into the meaning of a card. Her questions are really useful, I agree. And I can go with the change of names on the Majors without too much difficulty. The images, undoubtedly, are beautiful and evocative. I'm finding myself just reading from the images, quite successfully. At present, I'm completely in love with the card where the man lies sleeping, dreaming, and the deer is standing over him with two suns in the sky. Incredible. How do you feel about the names on the minors? I am really glad I've trimmed the cards. Finally I can use them. I'm realizing that clutter really interferes with my reading - visual clutter, or in this case, intellectual clutter. In any case, Enjoy! RedMaple

Imagemaker	21 Jan 2005
I agree with you about the unusual names--though after reading the book they make sense in a coded way. She substitutes her own words for both numbers and suits, so a dialogue of battle is a 2 of swords. (Doesn't contribute anything to my reading.) To take a number and represent it with one word is such a huge limitation of what the number could imply--but as an artist's eccentric creation, they make sense in *her* world. They'd made a fun addition to a collage!

RedMaple	22 Jan 2005
Imagemaker wrote: To take a number and represent it with one word is such a huge limitation of what the number could imply--but as an artist's eccentric creation, they make sense in *her* world. They'd made a fun addition to a collage! Yes, it's very limiting, and cumbersome. But as collage possibilities -- I just dumped all the trimmings today,after keeping them nearly two weeks. I'm going to dig them back out. I can just see them in a collage -- very provocative phrases! Thanks.

Satori	05 Feb 2005
I also just acquired a Celtic Wisdom in trade here on AT. I love it. I love the book as well, love the stories with the cards and love the questions...everything you've all said. Interestingly, and Songdeva just might scold me for this, I'm a little afraid of it for intuitive reading! The pictures seem to me to be so specific to Celtic mythos and symbology that I'm a little hung up on the book....which is not me anymore. I used to labor over the book, but I've freed myself of them for the past year or more. So I really need to try doing some readings with this deck, but I admit I'm a little overwhelmed by it! And as for the card titles, I understand what you mean RedMaple. What the hek is Elopement of Art? I'm not ready to cut anything off of the cards just yet, LOL, and I have no experience with trimming decks mind you, but I too am confused by her titles and suits. But the artwork is truly exquisite isn't it? Just gorgeous. I'm interested in the idea too that most of the people who populate the deck are pretty young looking. Even the people who have the grey hair seem to have a timelessness to them. I tend to like to see a nice mix of ages in a deck, old to young and in between, but I'm not hung up on it. In this deck the people really do look to me like they've stepped out of a myth, and I think that was the idea. Glad to see people talking about this deck though. I really want to work with it, and knowing others are working with it too makes me feel good!

RedMaple	05 Feb 2005
I found that when I cut off the card titles, my intuition was able to click in with these images quite well. The stories are beautiful, and sometimes relevant, but sometimes the images are from a different world than the Celtic for me, and easy to read outside that system. I like it when decks work on many levels. I still have a lot to learn with this deck, and I can't say we've completely bonded, but I am using it, and having interesting readings.

The Celtic Wisdom Makeover thread was originally posted on 13 Jan 2005 in the Tarot Decks board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Decks, or read more archived threads.