Interesting Statistics

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 06 Jan 2005, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Kath	06 Jan 2005
Looking back over the Top Ten tarot decks for a few years, I’ve noticed some interesting things. The Robin Wood and Thoth decks have come in the top three since 99. The Osho Zen and Rider-Waite have come in the top ten every year, same with the Sacred Circle Tarot. There have been a few ‘one hit wonders’, that were in the top 10 for a year, then disappeared. The highest ranking ‘wonder’ was the Victoria Regina which came in at #3 in 2002, then disappeared. There are a few ‘new’ decks in the 2003 list, and it will be interesting to see how they score in 2004 (particularly Tarot of Prague, which was #1). Just so that there is something to discuss in this thread, why are some decks constant ‘winners’, and others fall by the way-side? What has kept the Thoth, Robin Wood, Osho Zen, RWS and the Sacred Circle in the top 10 year after year? Why do we come back to these decks as our favourites? What makes a deck a ‘stayer’?

Fulgour	06 Jan 2005
Is there any way to see the actual sales figures. Also, how do deck/book sets fare vs decks only?

Scion	06 Jan 2005
That is interesting... I love tracking that kind of popular interest and longevity. They all have bold, evocative visual styles that are immediately identifiable, but no "theme" decks there. None of them are "offensive" or "radical" in approach, (although I'm sure some Crowleyphiles are gonna nail me on that), which means they can all be used in many settings. Still, they all feature nongratuitous nudity to reassure us that they haven't been sterilized and defanged. They are all "situated" historically and they all draw strongly upon a singular occult tradition, which probably makes for a richer field of symbols and alllusive subtext. All are nonChristian in slant, possibly as a rejection of orthodox patriarchy, possibly just because users are oversaturated already by the increasingly exoteric Christian traditions. Most have illustrated pips, and the Thoth and Sacred Circle have what I think of as evocative pip, no scene, but a sort of mood paiting of the suit and number. Also, am I wrong or aren't most of these decks illustrated and/or designed by women? Also interesting is the continued dominance of the RWS practically a century after its creation. The Thoth has history on its side and is kind of a Law unto itself... which is just how Uncle Al would've wanted it: Popular, but on it's own terms (like your crazy-but-prescient Aunt Zelda in the corner at a family reunion). And I'm guessing that perhaps Marseilles decks show up less because North America is more acquisitive than most regions and is driven by RWS literature. I, too, would be interested in the Tarot of Prague's status this year... I figure the one-hit-wonders tapped the zeitgeist but once they'd landed in people's hands, didn't have staying power. My guess is that the Gilded is going to be the favorite for 2004 because of the fervor around its release and the interest created by the initial limited release. What will be more interesting is if that translates into a recurring appearance in years to come. There is a pattern here, though who knows what it indicates beyond publishing/purchasing trends. It's sort of the New York Times bestseller list syndrome: People buy books that are listed BECAUSE they're listed, which drives those books' sales exponentially. My assumption would be that the "Top 10" decks are reflective of the ubiquitous decks with broadest appeal because it's calculated on raw numbers. So that while a Tarot obscurist may seek out decks far afield, most folks head for the most popular with the assumption that "all those Tarot readers" can't be wrong. Human nature. Would love to hear more takes on this... Scion

baba-prague	06 Jan 2005
Kath wrote: Looking back over the Top Ten tarot decks for a few years, I’ve noticed some interesting things. The highest ranking ‘wonder’ was the Victoria Regina which came in at #3 in 2002, then disappeared. There are a few ‘new’ decks in the 2003 list, and it will be interesting to see how they score in 2004 (particularly Tarot of Prague, which was #1) Interesting! I think that Victoria Regina sort of reappeared this year - I noticed it was discussed again. Personally I took mine out quite recently and realised again what a well thought-out (and well done) deck it is. I think it may have quite a long life-span, though perhaps with less attention than at the beginning. Tarot of Prague? Well, we don't expect it to be no 1 this year - not at all, as there are many other contenders. But I'd like to think it won't vanish either. It seems to be a deck that needs time - and to some extent grows over time and with use. But in general, I think the traditional decks such as RWS and Thoth will always turn up on the "most popular" list, while other decks may come and go in appeal. I suppose a full answer to this question would also involve talking about the difference between small publishers and bigger ones. I think that small publishers can go on giving more attention to their publications whereas notoriously big publishers do tend to 'drop" things that are more than a couple of years old. In the end, that may make a difference. I think we'll be able to keep the "mass market" edition of Prague in print for some time yet - and we'd like to edit and add to it from time to time too, just to reflect things going on in our own minds about the city and its symbols. If we were a big publisher we might not be able to do that - just because of commercial pressures to keep going on to the next new thing. So to some extent, I think this affects the life of a deck. Although in the end it must mostly come down to the real quality of the cards when they are used. What makes a "classic" - maybe that's a whole other thread?

mzoltarp	06 Jan 2005
When a person begins studying tarot it makes sense to select a mainstream deck. I'm guessing that the number of people who try out tarot are greater in number than the ones who stick with it over time. Thus a lot of discussion and publication will center on the standards. I also think that not all seasoned tarot readers are necessarily into finding abstract decks; some stay with the standards because they will be reading for people who may be clueless about tarot. I tend to dislike the adobe photoshop, acid-trip collage card genre others may flock to them.

full deck	06 Jan 2005
Statistics have been used many times to misrepresent everything from public decorum to good taste. It really depends upon the population sample that participates in the poll, for example, in South Korea, one newspaper recently stated that the majority of Koreans did not want the North Koreans to escape to South Korea. Upon inspection, it turns out that the statistics were from a questionable source (Ministry of Unification, more commonly known as the Ministry of S***). It is not bad that some prefer one deck over another, it is simply a matter of taste and education. What decks a person chooses tells me something of their mindset anyway so . . .

DollieAnna	06 Jan 2005
maybe because they same people on ATF are voting? ;)

WolfSpirit	06 Jan 2005
It would be interesting to know how many people voted in total and how many votes every deck got - as there are so many popular decks it could turn out that even the number one is only a small portion of the total number of votes. Although I do love some of the decks in the top ten, my number one favourite was never one of those ten. Oh - and many people find it impossible to choose one favourite deck, as they have several favourites. So their vote is maybe not completely "accurate". Fulgour wrote: Is there any way to see the actual sales figures. Well there is a sticky thread ("What decks do you have in your collection ?") where people can post a list of all decks in their possession. From time to time all decks have been tallied, so that tells which decks have been bought most, but not every AT member has listed his/her decks. As it is an enormous task to count all decks, it may not be done again, and I don't know where the past results are or when the last count was held, but it must be somewhere...

Flavio	06 Jan 2005
There are decks which are linked to people with an enormous reputation who represent a complete philosophical system or set of beliefs like the Osho and Thoth decks, Osho and A. Crowley bring a sense of mystery and validation to those decks, by this I don't mean the deck itself lacks any value. I think Robin Wood although a RWS clone is a favorite because the dynamic art and the pagan oriented design. So, to me the permanence as favorites of some decks depends on the good connection with the personal set of beliefs and aesthetic sense on large groups of people.

Emily	06 Jan 2005
It'll be interesting to see the results this year - My favourite the Morgan Greer made the top ten for the first time ever last year but its a deck that seems to fall in and out of favor quickly. There have been so many beautiful and useable decks released last year that maybe some of these will make the new top ten. :)

Cocobird55	06 Jan 2005
I think the Rider-Waite-Smith will remain on the top ten for a long time. It's not my favorite deck, but when I got seriously interested in tarot, it was the one that most of the books referred to, so I had to have one...

Diana	17 Jan 2005
I wonder also if some people maybe vote more than once. (Hmmm... maybe this is a way to get a Tarot of Marseilles up in the top ranks one day. Trouble is, I'm too honest for that kind of stuff. Perhaps someone else?)

RedMaple	17 Jan 2005
It's definitely possible to vote more than once. I did, just to see if it was possible, and it took my second vote, as well as my first. So the results are perhaps not as valid as we might like. Is it possible to fix the program so each person is allowed only one vote? Ah, the problems of electoral politics! ;)

DollieAnna	17 Jan 2005
RedMaple wrote: It's definitely possible to vote more than once. I did, just to see if it was possible, and it took my second vote, as well as my first. So the results are perhaps not as valid as we might like. Is it possible to fix the program so each person is allowed only one vote? Ah, the problems of electoral politics! ;) Well, I didn't vote! So your voting twice can make up for me. ;)

cirom	17 Jan 2005
RedMaple wrote: It's definitely possible to vote more than once. I did, just to see if it was possible, and it took my second vote, as well as my first. So the results are perhaps not as valid as we might like. Is it possible to fix the program so each person is allowed only one vote? Ah, the problems of electoral politics! ;) Oh Dear, does that mean people will now question the result ?? It was bad enough people thinking I look like George Bush in the Fool card, now that you and Diane have suggested the idea, they'll think I won the vote like he did as well, in the first election. :-) Oh well there goes my 15 minutes of fame.

RedMaple	17 Jan 2005
cirom wrote: Oh Dear, does that mean people will now question the result ?? It was bad enough people thinking I look like George Bush in the Fool card, now that you and Diane have suggested the idea, they'll think I won the vote like he did as well, in the first election. :-) Oh well there goes my 15 minutes of fame. Well, see, you'll just have to get that other deck out! Should be worth at least another 15 minutes, don't you think? LOL

RedMaple	17 Jan 2005
baba-prague wrote: Interesting! I think that Victoria Regina sort of reappeared this year - I noticed it was discussed again. Personally I took mine out quite recently and realised again what a well thought-out (and well done) deck it is. I think it may have quite a long life-span, though perhaps with less attention than at the beginning. Tarot of Prague? Well, we don't expect it to be no 1 this year - not at all, as there are many other contenders. But I'd like to think it won't vanish either. It seems to be a deck that needs time - and to some extent grows over time and with use. But in general, I think the traditional decks such as RWS and Thoth will always turn up on the "most popular" list, while other decks may come and go in appeal. I suppose a full answer to this question would also involve talking about the difference between small publishers and bigger ones. I think that small publishers can go on giving more attention to their publications whereas notoriously big publishers do tend to 'drop" things that are more than a couple of years old. In the end, that may make a difference. I think we'll be able to keep the "mass market" edition of Prague in print for some time yet - and we'd like to edit and add to it from time to time too, just to reflect things going on in our own minds about the city and its symbols. If we were a big publisher we might not be able to do that - just because of commercial pressures to keep going on to the next new thing. So to some extent, I think this affects the life of a deck. Although in the end it must mostly come down to the real quality of the cards when they are used. What makes a "classic" - maybe that's a whole other thread? Yes, I think another thread would be great on this question. I'll start one.

Majecot	18 Jan 2005
Diana wrote: I wonder also if some people maybe vote more than once. (Hmmm... maybe this is a way to get a Tarot of Marseilles up in the top ranks one day. Trouble is, I'm too honest for that kind of stuff. Perhaps someone else?) It never even occured to me to try to vote twice......hmmmm could have been a split decision.

Diana	18 Jan 2005
RedMaple wrote: Is it possible to fix the program so each person is allowed only one vote? Ah, the problems of electoral politics! ;) As far as I know, it is not only members who can vote, but all visitors to the Aeclectic web-site. So our statistics are fun, but depending on personal agendas, the results COULD be very flawed. (I'm not saying they are, please don't get me wrong here, I'm just saying that they COULD.) The Top Ten Aeclectic Tarot list is fun, but I don't think it could be considered reliable.

Summerdream	18 Jan 2005
WolfSpirit wrote: Well there is a sticky thread ("What decks do you have in your collection ?") where people can post a list of all decks in their possession. From time to time all decks have been tallied, so that tells which decks have been bought most, but not every AT member has listed his/her decks. As it is an enormous task to count all decks, it may not be done again, and I don't know where the past results are or when the last count was held, but it must be somewhere... Hi Wolfspirit, Mimers has been the one to keep up the tallies for the deck count. I have to give her credit, she has the patience of an angel. It looks like her last count was in May 2004. Here is the link to the thread http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=26234&highlight=2004 I find it very fascinating! Summerdream:)

Solandia	31 Jan 2005
Some other statistics and information on the Top Ten... Votes were cast by Aeclectic Tarot visitors and Aeclectic Tarot Forum members. People could vote for any deck, from any year, as long as it was their favourite. It was possible to vote more than once, but only one vote was counted. There are actually twelve decks in this year's top ten, due to the Rider-Waite & Fey Tarot, and the World Spirit Tarot & Sakki-Sakki Tarot receiving equal numbers of votes. Over one hundred different decks were nominated by voters. ~ Solandia

The Interesting Statistics thread was originally posted on 06 Jan 2005 in the Tarot Decks board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Decks, or read more archived threads.