Oldest deck?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 27 Feb 2005, and now archived in the Forum Library.

HenryLee	27 Feb 2005
I'm new here, so if this is repeated somewhere else I apologize. I'm curious to know what the oldest deck is. I know that they have plates and prints from old decks in Italy, but I didn't know if anyone had heard about older decks, perhaps Egyptian images or Mid-Eastern? HeLe

Rusty Neon	28 Feb 2005
Tarot of the Sphynx http://www.astroamerica.com/t-sphinx.html Royal Fez Moroccan Tarot http://www.themysticeye.com/pics/fez.htm Rock Art Tarot http://www.themysticeye.com/pics/rockart.htm

Cerulean	28 Feb 2005
Mamluk: http://l-pollett.tripod.com/cards64.htm The reproductions seem to be from Carta Mundi. There's also Saracen, which might be Moorish: http://l-pollett.tripod.com/cards77.htm If you also go to the other galleries, other card samples and time periods will give a good idea... I haven't located the Fournier reproduction that this site talks about...I do have historic reproductions of decks somewhat earlier than the Visconti Tarocchi, but they are European. The modern Egyptian or Middle-Eastern recreations such as the Sylvana Alasia or the Royal Fez Moroccon are mythical, but not historical reproductions...is that what you want? Best wishes, Cerulean

Cerulean	28 Feb 2005
http://www.wopc.co.uk/mamluk/ More info at Trionfi.com under 137O: http://trionfi.com/0/j/ Regards, Cerulean

HenryLee	28 Feb 2005
Wow, thank you so much. You are all so helpful! I'm interested mostly in historical cards. New interpretations are interesting, obviously, but I'm interested in seeing the first "ideal" tarot deck. I hope that in time I can help you out with something... HeLe

Logiatrix	28 Feb 2005
HenryLee wrote: ...I know that they have plates and prints from old decks in Italy, but I didn't know if anyone had heard about older decks, perhaps Egyptian images or Mid-Eastern? HeLe Welcome, Henry! :D If it's the oldest known historical deck that you seek, I think that's the Visconti-Sforza, discussed here: http://trionfi.com/0/b/ However, someone here on AT, in a related discussion, made a good point that the oldest known tarot deck used for divination would more likely be the Marseille. :) OOPS!...so sorry Mari, I didn't see your post! *sigh* :rolleyes: Well, Henry, you are definitely covered on the info...

Fulgour	28 Feb 2005
:) Welcome to Aeclectic Tarot :)

Fudugazi	28 Feb 2005
Welcome Henry - you'll find some like-minded souls here. Check out the trionfi site Cerulean linked you to - they have done some amazing work, and those who run it and write for it are members of this forum too. Several other members are historical buffs and I have learnt (and keep learning) a lot from them. You might also want to investigate Michael Hurst's page on http://www.geocities.com/cartedatrionfi/. I love the moorish decks, they are stunning, though without Trumps, they can't really be called Tarot decks. But they seem to be the ancestors of both playing cards and what came to be called - much later - the minor arcana.

HenryLee	28 Feb 2005
WOW! Thanks to everyone! The Mamluk deck is the most fascinating to me for some reason...I love those non-specific "universals" which leave me guessing because then I can delve deeper and deeper into them. Do any of you know if a modern printing of the Mamluk exists? I wonder WHY these people came up with these specific images...weird. Henry

Rosanne	28 Feb 2005
Welcome Henry Lee to the Forum, your thread has just proved how great it is here. I have a question. I understand the oldest Tarot was the 'Visconti-Sforza and it is uncomplete? What is the date for a complete set of Tarot both Majors and Minors that has been discovered. (I was thinking it was probally circa 1700?) Hoping for an answer, many thanks. ~ Rosanne

Rusty Neon	28 Feb 2005
Rosanne ... The Viéville deck goes back to circa 1650 and so it may be one of the oldest complete 78-card tarot deck (i.e., no cards missing). Offhand, however, I'm not sure whether it's the oldest complete tarot deck. http://www.tarotpassages.com/vieville.htm

Rosanne	28 Feb 2005
Thank you Rusty Neon, that is want I wanted -some info and the plus of a link. I have not been able to find an answer to my question after pouring through heaps of Historical threads. So it is complete, and maybe the oldest complete deck found. Great. ~ Rosanne

Rusty Neon	28 Feb 2005
The TarotL Tarot History Information Sheet http://www.villarevak.org/misc/tarotl_1.html

HenryLee	28 Feb 2005
That's a great site for dispelling rumors. Thanks again Rusty! Henry

Huck	01 Mar 2005
The Sola-Busca Tarocchi is complete (suggested is a date of origin from 1491). The Mantegna Tarocchi is complete and should be a little older, but it has another structure.

The Oldest deck? thread was originally posted on 27 Feb 2005 in the Tarot Decks board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Decks, or read more archived threads.