Thinking about the Morgan Greer...
Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 18 Feb 2005, and now archived in the Forum Library.
| Pipistrelle |
18 Feb 2005 |
|
Hi Everyone,
Much as I love my Crystal Tarot, I've lately been feeling that my Tarot studies aren't developing as well as they should, mainly because the Crystal has non-illustrated pips. I find that I can read very intuitively with the majors, but when a minor appears I go blank, even though I *know* the meanings. I tried to rectify this a few months ago by getting the Secret Tarot, which I adored online...but when I got it I just didn't connect with it at all and still don't.
So ANYWAY...(sorry!) I've been looking for a deck that is based on the Rider-Waite images because when I see those I immediately know the meaning and seem to be able to zone in much easier on the relevant bits. However, I HATE the Rider-Waite images/colours, it's never appealed to me, which has made my search quite tricky. None of the clones seem to do it either - it's the style of the drawings I think.
I'd already dismissed the Morgan Greer because the images shown in the Decks section on this site seemed too gaudy, and there's something a little bit "Sunday-Schoolish" about the images and the big hands everywhere (especially the 10 Cups!) However, I just stumbled upon a site with images of all the cards and now I'm quite impressed and think this may be what I'm looking for - the minors are quite beautiful I think. On this site, which is http://www.angelpaths.com/decks/morgangreer/index.html the colours aren't quite as "violent", shall we say.
So I'm after some impartial advice from people who have this - I know it's a very popular deck. Just how gaudy is it in real life? Do you find it easy to read with? (bearing in mind I'm after something that will make it easier for me to interpret my readings for myself). Does anyone have any comments/advice? And why are the people in the 2 of Cups so angry with each other? :)
I know choosing a deck is a very personal thing, but I just feel like I need some encouragement/audience participation before I buy yet another deck...
Kind thoughts,
Pip
|
| Keslynn |
18 Feb 2005 |
|
I love the Morgan Greer. It was the second deck that I ever owned. Then I gave it to someone who needed it more than I did. Never fear, I loved it so much that I got another copy! Now it's one of my main reading decks and one that clients choose often. Did I mention that I love this deck?
The colors are pretty bold, but I don't find them obnoxious. Then again, I always go for color in a tarot deck so I might not be a good judge. One thing that I really like about the deck is the use of color to evoke certain moods. One example is the Queen of Pentacles, who's depicted in luscious autumn colors. The colors, though bold, are used well. Another thing I love is that the cards don't have any borders. That lends a certain immediacy.
As for the 2 of Cups, I just don't know. I'll have to look when I get home.
I recommend this deck highly, but if you don't like bold colors, then it's probably not for you.
:) Kes
|
| Pipistrelle |
18 Feb 2005 |
|
Thank you for your reply Keslynn...so am I to understand that you quite like the Morgan Greer then? ;)
Actually I do really like bold colours - that's one of the things that attracted me to the Crystal. But there's a difference between bold and gaudy and I wasn't sure which applied to the Morgan Greer. But you say the colours aren't obnoxious, which is reassuring. You make a good point about the colours reflecting the mood of each card - I noticed the six of swords had quite subdued colours, which I liked very much.
I am very strongly considering this deck now :)
Pip
|
| Nina* |
18 Feb 2005 |
|
Hi Pipistrelle
Buy it... :D
I love it; the colours, the no-borders, the artwork.. even just the 'feeling' of the deck itself.
I can't read with it though, but this is because, unlike you, my intuition doesn't seem work with RWS images :(.
Good luck,
Nina
|
| RedMaple |
18 Feb 2005 |
|
The Morgan Greer is a wonderful deck to read from, so it should help your intuition. I find the colors bold and rich, but not gaudy. There are some images I'm not crazy about -- the 2 of Cups as you mention, shows faces that seem angry or at least uneasy. I also don't much like the Queen of Cups, but I love the other Queens, they are fantastic. In fact, the Court cards are, I think, very good in this deck because they are all so individual. I found it easier to read them than in some other RWS decks.
Another deck with vibrant colors is the Nigel Jackson. I did cut off the borders, though, as the cards were large, and the white borders took away from the power of the images for me. The trouble with the Jackson deck is that he switches the correlations of some of the suits, and many of the minors have males instead of female images. It feels a very male deck to me, which is good for doing readings for men, but it is not my main deck. Just thought I'd mention it as another one with good colors.
I know you don't like the RWS, but I find it good to know these images -- I'd suggest the Universal Waite, which has much better colors -- not so jarring. Once you know the RWS, all the other decks that follow that system are so much easier to read. And I find that it is an accurate deck, even if I don't love the artwork.
Actually, I think of the artwork as very turn-of-the-century, when it was popular for people to put on "tableaux" -- that is, they would dress in period costumes, and stand on stage to portray a scene. There was no dialogue or movement -- the idea was to capture a moment. (You can see this in the movie, "Women in Love" by Ken Russell.) The static nature of most of the RWS images remind me of that, and now I'm able to see that there's a lot of information packed into each card.
|
| tarotbear |
19 Feb 2005 |
|
According to Bill Greer - he's not happy with the colors, either! He says that Morgan skrimped on the color processes and that changed the colors from his original artwork.
|
| Pipistrelle |
19 Feb 2005 |
|
Thank you for your replies everyone. RedMaple: I did look at the Universal Waite - and the Radiant Rider - and I agree the colours are better but there's still something so unappealing to me about those images...I don't know what it is. I think that in the Morgan-Greer, the images are close enough to the Rider-Waite (even though some are framed differently) to work for me. (Glad you agree about the 2 of Cups though).
I'm pretty sure I've looked at the Nigel Jackson before but I can't remember what it's like now. It's not under "N" in the decks list - can anyone tell me where to find it please?
Ninamagic, I understand how you can't use your intuition with RW cards. I think it's because I'm a beginner. The problem with my non-illustrated minors is that when I get one in a reading my thought processes go something like this: "What's this card?...Count the pips...Okay, five of pentacles...So that means..." whereas when I see a card with two downtrodden people walking through the snow beneath a stained glass window, there is no conscious thought process as such. The image speaks directly, I don't have to think of keywords or meanings that I have written in my journal etc. because it's all in the image. My intuition kicks in a lot faster.
Anyway, impatient as always, I've taken the plunge and ordered the Morgan-Greer and will now spend my time looking at the images online until it arrives :) and hope I'm not disappointed...but I don't think I will be.
Kind thoughts,
Pip
|
| Keslynn |
19 Feb 2005 |
|
I don't think you'll be disappointed either. Glad you're taking the plunge. Soon, you'll be converting others too! ;)
:) Kes
|
| tarotbear |
19 Feb 2005 |
|
I understand how you can't use your intuition with RW cards. I think it's because I'm a beginner. The problem with my non-illustrated minors is that when I get one in a reading my thought processes go something like this: "What's this card?...Count the pips...Okay, five of pentacles...So that means..." whereas when I see a card with two downtrodden people walking through the snow beneath a stained glass window, there is no conscious thought process as such. The image speaks directly, I don't have to think of keywords or meanings that I have written in my journal etc. because it's all in the image. My intuition kicks in a lot faster.
Kind thoughts,
Pip
Dear Pip and ninamagic~
This is exactly why a beginner should use a deck with illustrated pips - no matter how many people around here argue that the Marsailles is 'the only true Tarot deck.' Beginners need help at the beginning, and the little meumonic (sp?) devices of the RWS decks are perfect for that - so remember to thank Pamela Coleman Smith for this!
Once you understand a RWS deck - you can translate any deck in your mind. That is why if you understand 'Five Pents' and the deck someone gave you has a picture of a strawberry ice cream sundae on it, you just 'override' the image that makes no sense to you and stick in 'Five Pents' in it's place. This is also how you can apply your Tarot knowledge to read a Marsailles deck, or even a regular deck of playing cards - but you have to understand the card's meanings first.
|
| tmgrl2 |
19 Feb 2005 |
|
I love the Morgan Greer!
I read somewhere exactly what tarotbear said, that B. Greer wasn't happy that the colors didn't come out in the printing as he had intended.
I like the "darkness" and the absence of borders. They seem larger than life.
I use this deck to read for myself.
terri
|
| Emily |
19 Feb 2005 |
|
I'm another who loves the Morgan Greer - it was the first deck that I properly managed to connect to. Its been my main reading and study deck for just over a year and has really brought me on with my tarot studies. I didn't find the artwork of the RWS much to my taste either but the Morgan Greer is much more than just a clone deck. Some of the cards have been changed so I found the artwork more inspirational than the RWS.
I love the colours of the Morgan Greer - they are neither garish or vivid - but just right. Facial expessions and upper-body images add to the feeling that you could fall right into the cards. And no borders mean that you get the full card with nothing to distract.
Hope your deck comes soon Pipistrelle :)
Edited to add:-
There is also a book for the Morgan Greer - its called 'The Book of Tarot' by Susan Gersulskis-Estes. Its a good book but not very thick or big - its better than nothing but could have been alot better. It does give some information about the cards so if you take to the deck, it might be worth you getting it. I found it very interesting when I was starting out but was soon reaching for tarot symbol dictionaries because there are many images on the Morgan Greer that you won't find on the RWS, also the colours matter. :)
|
| closrapexa |
20 Feb 2005 |
|
Without a doubt, this is the deck that I connect with the most. It is like an old friend to me. The colours are rich and bold, but not gaudy in the least.
|
| Pipistrelle |
20 Feb 2005 |
|
Edited to add:-
There is also a book for the Morgan Greer - its called 'The Book of Tarot' by Susan Gersulskis-Estes. Its a good book but not very thick or big - its better than nothing but could have been alot better. It does give some information about the cards so if you take to the deck, it might be worth you getting it. I found it very interesting when I was starting out but was soon reaching for tarot symbol dictionaries because there are many images on the Morgan Greer that you won't find on the RWS, also the colours matter. :)
Hi Emily, Thanks for mentioning the book. I'll probably have a look for it after the deck arrives (can't wait now!) Just out of interest, which tarot symbol dictionaries do you use, and would you consider them to be more useful for advanced readers rather than a novice like me?
Pip
|
| Emily |
20 Feb 2005 |
|
Hi Pipistrelle,
Tarot dictionaries are full of info suitable for any stage of tarot study. :) I searched out online first, google, but also I have a book called 'The Tarot Companion' by Tracy Porter - thats got a good symbol dictionary in it. There is another called 'The Tarot Dictionary' by Sandra Thomson but I haven't got round to getting that one yet.
Some RWS books have basic tarot dictionaries at the back of the books - Most books will cover the colour aspects you will see in the Morgan Greer.
The other book I meant to mention yesterday is one called 'Spiritual Tarot' - this book uses the RWS, Aquarian and the Morgan Greer side by side. Its a good book for comparing the decks, good information too - The Aquarian is very similar to the Morgan Greer. The Devil card in the Morgan Greer can be off-putting when seen for the first time but he's OK :)
|
| WalesWoman |
22 Feb 2005 |
|
When I was looking for my first deck, I chose Morgan-Greer for the artwork and colors and that it was close enough to RWS to learn with without the drearyness. I did later buy the Radiant RWS to better study the symbolism and like it a lot...tho' I gave it to my almost daughter in law for her to study with last year.
I do like to do read with it, tho' it has been ignored lately. What I have discovered since I've gotten other decks is that sometimes it can really zero in on an issue, maybe it's because the focus is more on the central image and not so busy with other symbols happening all over the place and no borders, so the images are large enough not to feel like you need a magnifiying glass or miss something. For some reason the Kings were the hardest for me to read in this deck, but that's probably just my problem and that whole men are from Mars thing.
Why do the couple on Two Cups look angry? Are they? Does everyone in love or in freindship agree about everything all the time? Do they like everything about each other? Are they seeing who each of them are as individuals, warts and all and deciding that they can share that cup of peace and joy and learn to resolve their differences in a harmonious way? You take the good with the bad...that is balance.
This is what I love about this deck, once you understand the basic meanings, you can get so much from the pictures...you could be illiterate and read with it.
Oh, try Tarot'R'Us.com for symbology There is also Tarot'R'Us.msn.groups
That helped me a lot, because the companion book that Emily mentions doesn't get into the symbology much in these cards. Try a google search with Tarot+symbology and well, I'm sure you will find a lot of stuff to go on from there too.
|
| Pipistrelle |
22 Feb 2005 |
|
Well, it has just arrived and I've peeled off the wrapper and had a look at each card. I already knew what the images were like from a website which showed the whole deck but I was anxious to check the colour and whether it looked as good "in the flesh". I'm very pleased! The colours are as all of you described - vibrant, bold but not too bright or gaudy, and quite evocative of the scenes. I think I will have very good readings with this - I can't wait to try it out (later this evening maybe...after work :( )
Re: The Two of Cups - I don't know if it's because I read your thread just before I looked at that card, WalesWoman, but when I came to it the people didn't seem as angry as I'd thought. They looked serious. There was intent in their gazes. So I don't think that will be as off-putting as I thought. And your post made a very good point about the balance of good and bad in relationships - thank you!
I'll be back to let you know how I get on with it later :)
Pip
|
| Pipistrelle |
22 Feb 2005 |
|
Sulis - thank you SO MUCH for finding all those threads for me! I will read them with gusto :) You're so kind.
Also, thank you for your recommendation of the Tarot Dictionary. I'm going to have a look at both that and the Tarot Companion. I'm feeling another Tarot book purchase coming on...how foolish of me to think I had enough Tarot books already...
I still haven't had a chance to sit down with my new deck and have a play but I'm off to make dinner now so maybe I can multitask...I did get the 2 of Pents as my daily card after all!
Kind thoughts,
Pip
|
| TheLovers2 |
23 Feb 2005 |
|
Why do the couple on Two Cups look angry? Are they? Does everyone in love or in freindship agree about everything all the time? Do they like everything about each other? Are they seeing who each of them are as individuals, warts and all and deciding that they can share that cup of peace and joy and learn to resolve their differences in a harmonious way? You take the good with the bad...that is balance.
This is what I love about this deck, once you understand the basic meanings, you can get so much from the pictures...you could be illiterate and read with it.
Just want to say, excellent points. I never looked at it this way. This is going to broaden my mind when it comes to some of my other "angry seeming cards" in other decks.
Thanks. :)
TL2 :TLOVE
|
| Emily |
23 Feb 2005 |
|
Thanks for posting the links Sulis - I've just been browsing through them all - Its amazing to think that the Morgan Greer can still thrill me as much as it did the first time I opened the shrink wrap. I don't think I would have carried on with my tarot studies if it hadn't have been for my Morgan Greer. :)
|
The Thinking about the Morgan Greer... thread was originally posted on 18 Feb 2005 in the Tarot Decks board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Decks, or read more archived threads.
|
