Fire versus Air--The Swords/Wands controversy

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 18 Aug 2001, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Rhyannon	18 Aug 2001
I have two decks, and in both of them, they relate swords to air/thinking, and wands to Fire/action. Can anyone explain this to me? Because I am so severely stuck in the 'Swords is action/Fire and 'Wands is Air/Thinking' mode. Is there any deck out there that has swords representing fire and wands representing air? The reasoning I see behind it is the Live Action Roleplaying that I do. Most fighters have swords...they also have a tendency (like barbarians) NOT to think, and to just go off on their own, impulsively to wherever the action or next fight is. Most mages or priests have staffs or wands. When faced with a situation, instead of ACTING on it, they have a tendency to sit there and talk about all the possibilities that *could* happen and what they *could* do about it. So they tend to think alot, instead of act.

Moonsage	18 Aug 2001
The Shapeshifter Tarot by DJ Conway and Lisa Hunt has swords as fire and wands as air. So your not ALONE! I say if those appointments of elements work for you Why not! I learned tarot as swords/air and wands/fire but When I use that deck I will have to do the opposite lol Oh well Im sure there are other decks that have that too. :) Love and Light, Moonsage

truthsayer	18 Aug 2001
the celtic dragon by dj conway is also set up that way. i'm hopelessly stuck in wands as action and swords as thinking. i must admit your explanation of the opposite is the best sense of any explanation i've heard to date. maybe in the future i can visualize that to make the transition. now i find myself wondering why would swords be put as thought and wands action? anyone know? ???

WaterSong	18 Aug 2001
Quote: truthsayer (19 Aug, 2001 00:18): now i find myself wondering why would swords be put as thought and wands action? anyone know? ??? I was confused about this, too, until I read _Zen and the Art of Motercycle Maintenance_ by Robert Pirsig. One of the major concepts in the book is "Phaedrus' Knife". It's the idea of a knife used to slice concepts into parts in order to examine each part. Using the knife skillfully, you can make the most effective slices and bring your concepts into line with reality. When one views swords as action, there's a tendency to see only destructive actions. Swords are weapons, used to kill and maim. A wand can provide the same protection power when used as a weapon (either physically, as a bludgeon, or through the use of energy), but it can also provide more gentle actions, such as healing, searching, or building. There are just more things one can do with a wand than with a sword.

Mojo	18 Aug 2001
As far as I'm concerned, unless you're writing some theoretical textbook, the whole fire/air debate is meaningless. Assign whatever value feels right to you based on your own understanding of the deck you are using. It's really as simple as that. For actual readings, assigning traits to suits can help, but just don't let yourself get too rigid in its application. I tend to think of Swords as being about thought AND action. Think about how you use a sword. It's not like a gun where you can just pick it up and pull the trigger. Swords have two edges and they can cut you just as easily as they can cut someone else. So to properly use a sword you have to pull it back and aim it (thought) and then follow through with it (action). Applying one of these without the other to the suit of Swords takes away half of the divinitory options of the suit. On the other hand, I see Wands as being about activity. Wands balance out all of the other suits nicely. Whereas Swords may be about WHAT we do, Wands are about HOW we do it. Likewise, Pentacles may be about WHAT we have, but Wands tell us what we DO with it. Cups tell us WHAT we feel, but the Wands tell us HOW we act on those feelings. This makes Wands a very powerful and important suit as far as I'm concerned.

Rhyannon	19 Aug 2001
Thank you Mojo. Your description of the way Wands works certainly cleared things up a whole lot for that suit for me!

tarotbear	19 Aug 2001
Someone somewhere once spoke about Wands/Fire and Swords /Air and made the observation that you swing a sword through the air, but fire would burn the Wands up! Can't argue with that one! Think about this, though: Iron is a mineral found in the EARTH; the mineral is smelted in FIRE, and molten iron is cooled in WATER. Anyone come up with a correlation to the element of AIR from this analogy?

nexyjo	19 Aug 2001
i was very much hung up on this issue when i first started my study of the tarot. i had been taught that wands = air and swords = fire which is the traditional wiccan correspondance. so when the tarot used the reverse, i was confused. i went in search of decks that use the traditional wiccan correspondances. if you're interested in what decks use it, i have a few listed here: http://hometown.aol.com/nexyjo/spirit/tarot1.htm what's really weird is that in those decks that do use the wiccan correspondances, the meaning of the cards essentially don't change compared to the traditional wands/fire and swords/air decks. if one changes the elemental associations, shouldn't the meanings follow that change? even more odd, i read the book that accompanies the traditional rider-waite deck - The Pictorial Key to the Tarot by Arthur Edward Waite, and he corresponds wands to the card suit of diamonds, which i would say is earth, swords to clubs, which i would correspond to fire as it's like a wand, and pentacles to spades, which i would correspond to air - swords. sheesh, at least he corresponded cups to hearts. because we each interpret elements according to our own set of values and experiences, different elements can mean the same things to different people - thus the sword/wand - air/fire "controversy". also, keep in mind that each card of the tarot has an aspect of each of the elements - the correspondences only refer to the dominant element according to the designer of the deck. each of us, of course, is free to use whatever elemental correspondance works for us. luv and light, nexy luv and light, nexy

Major Tom	20 Aug 2001
Quote: tarotbear (20 Aug, 2001 01:11): Think about this, though: Iron is a mineral found in the EARTH; the mineral is smelted in FIRE, and molten iron is cooled in WATER. Anyone come up with a correlation to the element of AIR from this analogy? Ok - I'll byte }> When molten iron is cooled in WATER - steam rises into the AIR (notice I didn't mention the smell of iron melting?) }>

Kiama	20 Aug 2001
Quote: truthsayer (19 Aug, 2001 00:18): now i find myself wondering why would swords be put as thought and wands action? anyone know? ??? My opinion of this is: Look at the shape of the Sword- Sharp, keen, like the mind. Now, look at the shape of the Wand- Blunt, hard.... Like the male penis. Both are active, male principles, but one is sharper and thus pertains to mind activity, and the Wand is blunter and rounder, and the penis in action is certainly more pertaining to Fire than Air! This is backed up by the fact that many interpret the Ace of Wands as paternity... Kiama

tarotbear	20 Aug 2001
Well, Kiama -- in the Robin Wood deck, the upright wand between the two sunflowers on the Ace of Wands does not leave much to the imagination... ;P ;P

Kiama	21 Aug 2001
Which is why I so love the Robin Wood deck! ;p Kiama

Aeon	21 Aug 2001
Just to throw my two cents in here... When I think of swords, I think of the sword flying through the air (someone already mentioned this) and that the pen is mightier than the sword. Pens being for writing, writing involving thought. For Wands I always imagine a wand being used in casting a circle. Energy/fire going out of the wand to cast it. The wand is used to focus and direct that energy. Definitly an action to me. any of that make sense? I know my mind goes off on strange tangents occasionally Aeon

nexyjo	21 Aug 2001
Quote: Aeon (22 Aug, 2001 05:25): Just to throw my two cents in here... When I think of swords, I think of the sword flying through the air (someone already mentioned this) and that the pen is mightier than the sword. Pens being for writing, writing involving thought. For Wands I always imagine a wand being used in casting a circle. Energy/fire going out of the wand to cast it. The wand is used to focus and direct that energy. Definitly an action to me. any of that make sense? I know my mind goes off on strange tangents occasionally Aeon it'a funny, i was about to agree, and then i remembered i disagree! sheesh, i'm loosing it... actually, because i use the robin wood tarot, but still hold on to the traditional wiccan correspondences for swords (athames) and wands, i've become quite used to seeing them either way. i see the two - air and fire, or wands and swords, as pretty close anyway, just like i see pentacles and cups, water and earth as pretty closely related. it's the mental and the physical. and as i mentioned earlier, the meanings don't seem to change no matter which correspondence is used. i think there's significant crossover between those sets of suits, enough to not make that much of a difference when they're changed. luv and light, nexy

Jane	22 Aug 2001
Hi, The Nigel Jackson tarot has swords as fire and wands a air. Since I first learned them the other way around that always threw me a bit. When I've tried to read with that deck I use the way I learned, it's only really obvious in the aces. Jane

Logiatrix	22 Aug 2001
how serendipitous! i have been struggling with this very topic for the last couple of weeks, because i am now using the "renaissance tarot," by brian williams, with the wands/air and swords/fire assignments. it's starting to make a lot of sense, as i work and re-work the cards; these other perspectives have helped even more! :) i think of the swords of fire the angels hold as they guard the gates of eden and how a sword is shaped by fire. my own wand is made with feathers, an air symbol, and the handle is decorated with an aventurine crystal, also affiliated with air. in ritual, i move my wand through the air and i move my sword over flame.

The Fire versus Air--The Swords/Wands controversy thread was originally posted on 18 Aug 2001 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.