Could someone interpret this please?Thanks

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 11 Oct 2001, and now archived in the Forum Library.

mehrdad	11 Oct 2001
Just before the tragic evil act that brought WTC in New York down and murdered many thousands of people I was given a set of “Crowley” Tarot decks as a present by a friend of mine and to honor my friend I took his advise and slept with the cards for three straight nights (placed it under my pillow). During all three nights I had scary nightmares and very strange and unusual dreams and on the fourth night and as my eyes were getting warmed up and I was going to sleep I suddenly heard a noise and whispering sounds from kitchen. As soon as I opened my eyes I suddenly found myself in a place other than my current home. I was in an old house that I used to know as a child. I saw people were throwing stones at our house that had a glass window and were trying to harm us physically. My mother who was now much younger told us (my sister and I) that she was going out to calm down these crazy people so they might stop their violent acts. I and my sister were watching my mother in street through the window to make sure no harm would come to her by stone throwing people and there I saw a very old woman and my father who passed away many years ago, were advising my mother about the situation and with them there were a lot of dogs and cats and other animals. After talking to them my mother asked us to open the door and as soon as we opened the glass door all those animals followed my mother inside while bending down, kissing the floor, wailing and repeating this word, “Ya-ho-va”, “Ya-ho-va”, “Ya-ho-va”. Just then the stone-throwing people scattered and their stones had no effect on the glass door and we felt very secure and protected afterwards. These animals brought a lot of bless and light to our house. There were flowers with shining light inside them growing all over the walls, mostly at the top, and I constantly could hear this word by the chanting animals, “Ya-ho-va”, “Ya-ho-va”, “Ya-ho-va”. I felt extremely happy and content and I was thinking that this is the paradise that my mother so much used to talk about. On the floor of our home there was a river of water with many fishes jumping up and down while repeating this word, “Ya-ho-va”, “Ya-ho-va”, “Ya-ho-va”. At this time I saw my sister was pregnant and my mother too and I was patting a black talking cat on my lap when suddenly the cat turned back and without any warning and after my sister complained that all these animals are not good for the health of her baby, bitted my patting hand between my thump and index finger so much that it turned red. At the same time the running water on the floor suddenly dried up and turned to dust and all the animals were buried under it. Then all the good things melted away and the watery floor dried up and the light was turned down and the plants and vegetations on the wall perished. The Previous old woman who seemed to be the keeper of these animals, ran to our house while screaming and complaining that she warned us how to keep these animals happy. I felt truly miserable and was crying and fisting the dust on the ground which now was turned to a watery clay and I was begging for the heaven to come back. Between the dust and clay in my fisted hands there were also some silver coins and at this moment in time we started to clean the dust from the floor and released the animals (dogs, cats, chickens…) from under the dusty floor. All those creatures started to come alive and while chanting, “Yahova”, “Ya-ho-va”, “Ya-ho-va” left our house but before leaving they did thanks us for liberating them and they left us two chicken (dead and ready to be cooked) as a token. Just before leaving one of the animals told me that the cat bite my hand to remind me that what I saw was not a dream but a true vision and he asked me to look at my hand afterward. At this time my vision was ended and I found myself shaking on the bed with a sharp pain in my hand and when I looked down to my hand I saw a reddish mark extending from the top of my index finger to the top of my thump.

truthsayer	11 Oct 2001
that was an incredible vision. i like dream interp but i don't feel adequate to interpret such complex imagery. the chanting of "ya-ho-va" is prob jehovah another word for God. sorry but i'm not up on what religion uses that name for God. my next guess would be a warning not to assume wonderful things in life are ours forever b/c they can be taken away as easily as they are given. when you begged for heaven to return then God returned in your life and provided for you and your family again. its imagery reminds me so much of Biblical symbolism. clues are the stone throwing, the jumping fish, wailing/kissing the floor while chanting jehovah,water and the animals. some of these symbols make me think of jesus--the fisher of men and when he made enough fish, bread, and wine to serve the multitude. too bad we don't have joseph here to help us. the imagery also reminds me of the story of Job or even noah's ark. you are under no obligation to answer this question so please forgive me for asking this--i don't intend to be invasive. i sense a cultural difference in you from the dream imagery. do you live outside america? if you live in america were you born elsewhere or were your parents immigrants? also could you be jewish or muslim? the dream just doesn't sound like anything the local fundamentalist baptists or protestants would dream. i doubt they would dream about chanting jehovah, animals or time for second chances in their dreams. i ask due to the strong Biblical imagery, particular Biblical style suggested, and importance of redemption thru cherishing one of God's most assumed creations--animals. it's okay if you think i'm crazy. just stand in line to tell me. ;) this is just what i think off the top of my head. i'll give more thought and please pardon any false assumptions. i'm just trying to get what i'm sensing to make sense to me!

mehrdad	11 Oct 2001
You are very perceptive, yes you are right and I was born outside of USA. I was born in a Moslem country (Persia/Iran) and after Moslem fundamentalists came to power I was forced to leave and eventually immigrated to USA on the basis of political persecution. I have a bachelor degree in Electrical Engineering from a reputable school in the US and basically a strong believer of science and analytical thinking and never have believed in topics such as Tarot, dreams or likes and I also do not believe in any religion of any form or shape. Since that night I have not had a good sleep and no matter how much I try I just cannot forget this incredible experience. The fact is that scary nightmares have continued and now I am even afraid of going to sleep (have lost 10 pounds since that night). Since then I continually dream of “steps” that have no end either upward or downward and I wake up while screaming in fear every single night; Even when I wake up and try to go to sleep again, the dream of “no ending steps” just coming back, again and again. My old mother who lives with me and is very worried about my health asked me to share this with others so it might help me in some ways. I think you have already helped me greatly by interpreting the meaning of “Yahova” which I could not figure out it’s meaning. Could you please elaborate on this word? I thank you for your help.

truthsayer	12 Oct 2001
i'll do some research on jehovah also pronounced yaweeh. my best recollection is that some christian religions refer to God as Jehovah. i believe Judaism does, too. my gut reaction is that you are being confronted with a spiritual awakening. the message is mixed w/ christian, moslim, and jewish spiritual imagery. the first vision was a message of what you need to do in order to "get right with God" and bring new life to you and your family. i say this b/c of the references to pregnancy. but when your pregnant sister doesn't want the black cat around that causes your spiritual wealth to disintegrate. in your culture do cats have a special significance. in mine, i would consider the black cat as representing your shadow side, the side of your personality that you hide from others. the bite was obviously trying to get your attention. since the mark and pain was still there when you woke, it was a pretty strong indication that if you pick up clues from the vision then you can heal the spiritual losses revealed by the vision. lacking food often indicates need of spiritual nourishment and receiving food is symbolic for how to gain spiritual nourishment. i feel uncomfortable revealing more perceptions here. my email is listed if you would like more help.

Marion	12 Oct 2001
That was an amazing vision, very powerful. Jehovah is used in the Christian Old testament as a name for God, especially in older translations. No doubt other religions, maybe Judaism. As Truthsayer comments, that turning point where your sister comments that all the animals, esp. the cat. cannot be good for the baby and this causes such a huge change (dust, river drying up) seems very important to me. I suspect that every element is important, but the river, with the fish, which dries up seems to reflect a turn whereby the river of your soul gets turns to dust by.... what? Like Truthsayer, I don't really see, unless it ws the total act of rejecting the animals. Maybe in rejecting the animal side of your nature, which in this vision in a straightforward and unbashed way keeps chanting the name of god, and rejecting it causes everything to dry up and become (spiritually?) barren. Then you got some silver coins (Robin Woods and others seem to say that silver is the colour of spirit) and tried to clean it up, and things more or less came right again. You also mention some water, so the dust became clay... again, rambling associations... in the Christian tradition, god formed man out of clay. Hum, I'll think about this too.

MeeWah	12 Oct 2001
Mehrdad: That is a powerful vision or lucid dream! Truthsayer & Marion offer some keen insights with which I concur. There seems to be possibly a warning mixed with the expression of an internal struggle, possibly referring to maintaining a balanced life. That is, paying attention to one's spiritual needs as well as the mundane life. While Science & the intellect have their place, the inner being has need of attention, nourishment & expression also. There was a time when there was more of a connection to those concepts that provided a foundation of stability & comfort; however, those seem to be either lacking or not a part of the life now. Perhaps the trauma of having to build a new life in a new environment & recent events are influencing your perceptions & experiences. Have you considered obtaining some counselling to deal with &/or to understand the disturbed sleep? Also, are you using the deck at all? if you haven't cleansed the Tarot deck, I strongly suggest doing so. BTW: Welcome to the Aeclectic Forums, & blessings to you!

mehrdad	13 Oct 2001
To "truthsayer" After reading your last post, I called my sister back in the old country (she resides in Iran) and then I found out that what you said was actually true. And she indeed has done a mental mistake that would cause us greatly (financially and spiritually). Since you had no knowledge of my family situation and still were able to draw a correct conclusion only from my vision, which even I was not aware of until today, this makes me wonder. I wonder if there is a God called “Yahova” or “Jehovah” as you called it and even though all my logic tells me that there could not be a God but still I cannot deny my vision and your interpretation of it. I was born a Moslem (but I do not practice it) and I have never seen anything in any religion that I could find worth practicing. However, my mother who is a devote Moslem has asked me several times to take here to a church so she can pray to God and Jesus Christ (in Islam they also believe in Jesus). While we were in Europe (Austria) she went to one of those old Cathedrals in there and she told me that she likes that environment and she believes that her prays always get response when she asks it from Jesus. We have an old church in front of our streets and I think this Sunday I will take here there (If they let us in) and try to mend my relation to “Yahova” and I would send you an email to your personal email address and I would let you know if I was successful in getting rid of my mental anguish by going there. Thanks again, sincerely, mehrdad

mehrdad	13 Oct 2001
[to “marion”] I am really glad that I took my mother’s suggestion and I shared my vision in this forum since the responses have been quite helpful and I feel much better now. What you said about the silver coin is very interesting and I should add that in my vision the pictures on the coins were my mother’s but instead of the picture of my mother there was the image of a distinguished bald man. About the name “Jehovah”, I clearly remember that name which was being chanted was “Ya-ho-va / Yahova” and not “Jehovah” so I wonder if at any time or by any religion the name of God had been pronounced “Yahova” by anybody. As you are probably aware in Islam the God is called “Allah” but I undoubtedly heard those animals were calling to “Yahova” since even after a month past that night I still hear that name ringing in my ear. Sincerely mehrdad.

mehrdad	13 Oct 2001
[to meewah] What you said about the need for spiritual nourishment is something that I certainly will consider. I surely need to reconsider my life and have to examine those areas in my existence that I have neglected all my years on this Earth. About if the recent event might have some effect on what I saw, the fact is what I saw was exactly one night before of the WTC tragic event. After my vision I was shaking and was disoriented for the rest of that night so around early in the morning I finally was able to go back to sleep and woke up around eleven in the morning. That morning I had to call a governmental based educational office about my payment for my past student loan in New York but I was constantly receiving the busy signal or a recorded message informing me that this number cannot be contacted at the present moment. So to kill some time I turned on the TV and in my shocking amazement I saw the repeated images of an airplane hitting WTC twin towers. At first I thought my vision and dust and clay and the rest might had been a prediction of what did happen the day after. I have done a lot of research on quantum mechanics and I believe that time travel is a possibility so I thought that somehow I was able to travel trough time and foresee the destruction before it actually happened. However, after reading “truthsaying” and “Marion” and your comments about my vision I believe that my vision coinciding with that tragic event was only a coincident.

Marion	13 Oct 2001
mehrdad, Jehovah is actually pronounced ya-ho-va. The stairs may express your frustration at not being able to get anywhere with this vision. Cannot go up or down, and they never seem to end. Does this follow-up dream still haunt you now that you have been able to make a start?

Marion	13 Oct 2001
mehrdad In the end you have to interpret the dream yourself, but try and think of it as unfolding, a bit like a play with scenes. Think about the 'scenery' as either adding atmosphere or giving you extra clues. The dream starts in a childhood house. Scene one is a feeling of being attacked and threatened, and your mother goes out to protect you and your sister. Next scene: the animals come in chanting the name of god. The attacks go away and the world seem to fill with light and flowers. A river with fish runs through your house... as you say, like heavan. Key point: Your sister and mother are present. Something your sister says causes the animals, spiritual beings or carriers, to turn to dust. The river (of spirit) dries up. You really need to focus on this change. Next scene: You are crying and deeply frustrated and you find the silver coins and some water (your tears?) and this releases the animals (I think of these as spirit carriers, linked to god, not bound by your scientific thinking. By the way, I am in a science field myself and have a degree in Physics, so I do understand). I have read about the food left behind... I think you need to 'cook' it... you have to make it so you can eat it and nourish yourself and your family. Well, I think you need to break it down into manageable proportions or it will overwhelm you and you will just sit on those stairs. Hope this is some help,

mehrdad	14 Oct 2001
Dear Marion, Thank you for caring and yes it does help when you break it down and I thank you for suggesting it. However, in what category do you think I should put them under? Should I file them under some psychological problem that I am developing or a real message from a higher place? Does this vision is a reflection of my own problem in life or someone in somewhere is trying to tell me something? This is creating a problem for me. In one side I really cannot accept the existence of a god no matter how much I try and on the other side I cannot understand why should I see and hear words (which I did not know their meanings until a few days ago) that are so religiously oriented. The fact is I never had logical conflicts such as this until I received these tarot cards, which I absolutely cannot even look at them. In another word when I saw that vision and their followings dreams and nightmares all the variables in my life was the same and the only change was getting the “Crowley” tarot cards. How can some gaming cards that have some nice and imaginary painting on them be the cause of such a thing since I did not have these problems until I received them. Another fact is that until reading the responses I was not aware that water or coin might means tears and soul or a cat is the reflection of my shadow personality. My question to you is, if one does not know the meaning of these signals how could one’s imagination is able to create and attaches those meanings to them? Until that night I always thought that I do not dream or if I did I could never remember them, but now I see so many unusual dreams every night, which I just cannot forget them. I wonder if I am losing my mind and these dreams are a prelude to becoming completely mad.

truthsayer	14 Oct 2001
mehrdad, the only way i know how to answer your questions is that some ppl believe that all our consciousnesses are linked universally. that would mean whoever you are and wherever you are from worldwide, we all draw from a basic set of symbols that have meaning for the human mind. since you are into science, you may enjoy reading some of carl jung's works. the one that comes to mind is "man and his symbols"--i think that's the name. it's pretty deep but may help you in some way. i don't know if the cards stirred up your unconscious mind or there is some kind of psychological problem. i think that you are doing the right thing by putting the cards away. please don't feel like you ever have to touch them again. could you give them back to the friend who gave them to you without insulting him/her and just explain the cards gave you "nightmares". the cards might just be a part of western culture that you subconscious mind is reacting to in a negative way. if doesn't matter if you are a citizen here now, you still have a childhood background other than western civilization. i know this seems to conflict about what i said about the universal unconscious mind but i think it all fits together somehow like a piece of the puzzle. there's is also the fact the past month has been extremely stressful nationwide. i have to admit i have had nightmares and distressing dreams, too. i don't think you are alone in your feelings. it's a good thing to reach out somewhere when you are feeling this distressed. you might find it helpful to keep a journal of your dreams and see if there are repeating symbols or repeating themes to the dreams. sometimes what a dream is pointing out to us in itself isn't what's frightening. it's just that at some level we know what is being asked of us and that requires making changes we don't choose freely. i know i have experienced this and in the end had to really examine on many levels what my dreams were trying to tell me i needed to do in my life.in my case, i had deep moral objections to some of the things i had to do in my jobs that conflicted with my identity. however, i felt i was needed in this job and fought to stay there until i saw there was no point in denying reality to myself any longer. journaling will help you face any things in your life you may be denying or trying to avoid facing. remember you aren't alone.

mehrdad	15 Oct 2001
Dear “truthsayer”, Thank you for suggesting a book for me to read, I actually enjoy a good reading so as soon as I saw your post I immediately ordered from “Amazon.com”. While researching about “Carl Jung” I also saw a book by him called, “ Memories, Dreams, Reflections”. Do you think I should order that one too? About the stress in current situation, this is very true and the way the whole situation is going I believe it is taking a horrendous tow on me psychologically and financially. On Friday I received the news that the company, which I am working for, “3COM”, is going to close down the branch that I am working in and as a consequence I would also receive a ping slip very soon. There is also the problem of being targeted for “hates crime” (just yesterday someone broke my car’s window with a hate note left on my dashboard), considering what happened on Sep. 11, I personally cannot condemn those who broke into my car and I understand their anger. So in a way, my dream is coming true and it makes me shiver to think what is coming next. There are also problem with my sister with the criminal and blood thirsty Mullahs back in Iran who have confiscated all our belongings and are threatening to do worse. Many years ago they also killed my father and many tens of thousands more (all in one night) whose only crime were asking to be free which is the right of every human being on this crazy planet. I think you understand where my dislike about any religion, no matter what is called, has come from. Religion is a tool that is being used freely by mass murders to do what they like. That tragic murdering act on that black morning actually changed all of our life and my life changed exactly the night of that morning with that somewhat prophetic dream and I am no longer the optimistic fellow that I used to be. Since that dream, many thousands of people died in New York, my sister has lost her home, and I am losing my Job and my livelihood, and my mother cries every night. Little by little as in my dream, my small heaven is melting away. About the tarot cards, I cannot insult my friend by returning the cards and besides I like the images on these very large cards that are beautifully painted. Therefore, I decided instead of running away from darkness I should confront my fears and try to understand their roots. So with “Carl Jung’s book” I also ordered one book relating to these cards, which is called, “Book of Thoth” by “Crowley”. Have you read this book? What do you think about it?

Jane	15 Oct 2001
Quote: mehrdad (15 Oct, 2001 14:51): [snip] I also ordered one book relating to these cards, which is called, “Book of Thoth” by “Crowley”. Have you read this book? What do you think about it? Hi mehrdad, I'm truely sorry for your recent difficulties. I hope things turn around for you real soon. Reguarding the Book of Thoth, this will probably not be an easy read the first time through. Crowley assumes that the reader already has knowledge of a wide variety of subjects. Qabala, astrology, mythology (both, Greek, Egyptian, and Hindu), I Ching, which he calls Yi King, and Gematria. Even though it is not an easy read, I think it is very worth while in understanding more about this deck. I have been learning more about many of these subjects, and re-reading this book. Each time it makes more sense to me. I have used it as a jumping off point for my study of this deck. I hope this helps some, Jane

tiger lily	15 Oct 2001
Two other books about dreams that I recommend very much are Ann Faraday´s "Dream Power" and Stephen LaBerge´s "Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming". Could it be that this dream/vision was a recapitulation of your life - from your childhood until now? The people that threw stones at your childhood home could be a symbol of your being exiled from your home those many years ago. The cat/black cat is a symbol of the female aspect of divinity in many cultures, whereas Yehova is a very patriarchalic deity. In your dream, the male and female aspect of God seemed to be united (btw, there were many female symbols in this dream - your mother and sister were the most obvious, but also the cat, the fish, the flowers and the water). The "female" aspect of the psyche is the intuitive, irrational, "psychic" part - the part that was obviously stirred by the Tarot cards, which are widely regarded as occult, irrational and inexplicable (how is it possible to see *anything* of someones life in these painted cardboard pieces?). So, this dream may be telling you that you have to balance your "male", rational, scientific side with your "female", wild (the animals in your dream) and irrational side - that without this balance, your life will be barren and without satisfaction? A dream has always many layers of meaning - all are valid, even when they seem to contradict each other. And no dream is ever decrypted completely. It remains a mystery, so that we don´t forget it.

truthsayer	15 Oct 2001
mehrdad, i'm so deeply sorry about the things you've been through and what's going on in your life now. your dislike of religion makes perfect sense to me. i'm glad you are willing to confront your fears and what your mind is trying to tell you. it does seem prophetic in that you are losing so many material things necessary for survival. "memories, dreams, and reflections" is like carl jung's autobiography. it's actually my favorite book he wrote. it's easier to read than his others and helps you understand how he thinks and writes when you read his other works. this may be an angle that will help you deal w/ these issues. carl jung is a spiritual person but he does it in a scientific practical way that i hope will appeal to you. he also had many strange unexplained things that happened to him. he talks about these in "memories, dreams, and reflection." i can't remember if any of his experiences w/ dreams/visions was quite like yours but it may help to read his approach. i don't think you or your family deserve to be the victims of hate crimes and any of the other atrocities commited against you. i hope you reported what happened to your windshield to the authorities. ppl who are willing to do something like that need to be stopped before they really hurt someone. even if you get a pink slip from your job, i do hope you are eligible for unemployment so you can support yourself. i don't know what your resident status is or what legalities are regarding it for a person in your situation tho. the local employment security office ought to be able to tell you. take care of you and your loved ones. my best wishes for you all.

purplelady	15 Oct 2001
merhdad, you have some amazing dream recall there! Wow. You said that you never remembered dreams before. I do not think you are mad or crazy at all . I think you've had some type of personal spiritual breakthrough or vision. I do not think it coincidence that the dream was the night before the world trade centers, or that you had the Thoth deck. Everything in this universe is interconnected. Jehovah is the jewish god of the old testament bible. Perhaps your distaste of religion had previously turned you off to any spirituality. But to me , organized religion and the spirituality inside a person could be 2 totally seperate things. There is a lot more to life and this universe than all the scientific teachings in books and schools. I believe there is something seriously lacking in only science. Science simply cannot explain everything there is , and it never will. So.............there must be something more . It doesn't have to have anything to do with judiasm, islam , or christianity. Or at least the organized forms of these religions that we are familiar with , that are run by a hierarchy of people with political motives , power motives etc. I think it is an excellent choice to not run from your fears but face them . The best to you , marlene

tiger lily	15 Oct 2001
oh... I forgot: a good introduction to the Crowley Tarot is the book by Hajo Banzhaf and Akron, "The Crowley Tarot" (telling title, isn´t it? ;) ); it´s a lot easier to read than Crowley´s own works (or so I´ve been told; I don´t have any of C.´s books) and would be a good start before you dive into the heavier stuff.

mehrdad	16 Oct 2001
Hi Jane, Thank you for the information, of course I do not know the meaning of “Qabala” and I have no knowledge about astrology and my acquaintance concerning mythology is a book by “Zecharia Sitchin” called “The 12th planet”. However, now that I am losing my job I suppose I would be able to learn about them on the count of having a lot of free time to kill. Last night while researching about “Crowley” on Internet, I saw some readings calling him an “Evil” man and a crazy “Cult” leader. Some people even see him instrumental in what “Manson” (I have no idea who Manson was but I understand he was a mass murderer like Khominei or Bin- Laden) did. Hopefully I am not throwing my money away by ordering his book. In any case I already have ordered his book and I do not believe you would have recommended his writing if he was as bad as some say he was. Besides if he was an evil man then how come his cards generated the name of “God” for me in my vision? In the Old Persian religion called “Zoroastrian” in which the three pillars of “Good thoughts, good words and good deeds" are preached, “Evil” is the shadow of God and in a sense God and Evil are dual and twin forces with equal powers and the existence of universe is due to the presence of both, otherwise the universe would cease to exists. Perhaps “Crowley” was such a rare individual with a balance duality of good and bad. I really appreciated for wishing good luck for me. Thank you.

mehrdad	16 Oct 2001
My dear “tigerlily”, My mother complains that I am spending too much money on books but I am so much eager to find out what was the meaning of that strange vision that I am ordering all the books that I am being recommended in this site. So I also ordered those two books that you mentioned and I thank you for that. All my books have titles such as “Introduction to Quantum Mechanic”, “Differential equation”, “Essential Unix administration”… the only fictional book that I have is “the 12th planet” which is also somewhat relates to science in which the writer hypothesizes that human beings were created by some super being coming from outer space in order to extract gold for their own purposes. So your suggestion that I should balance my scientific or rational side with my irrational aspect might very well be true. About having many female symbols in my dream, this might also be the result of me having two sisters and no brothers and as a consequence being raised in a feminine environment (I was the youngest and the only son, and both my sisters were/are older than I am). My younger sister was executed in Khominei’s jail after she was raped by a “fatwa” ordered by Khominei himself in order for her soul to go to “hell” instead of heaven (since my sister was a virgin at the time and according to evil mullahs a virgin girl will not go to hell). I also saw your second post concerning “Akron” and “BanzhaI” and I found the book that you mentioned and I am going to order it after finishing writing this. Thanks again.

mehrdad	16 Oct 2001
My dear friend “truthsayer”, Thank you for your kind words and I also wish you the best. About going to unemployment office, according to what I have heard my company is going to pay us some sort of departing package and hopefully before I have any need to go to any unemployment office I will be able to find some sort of work. But I think in the current environment finding work with all these suspicion concerning Middle Eastern people, might be a little bit difficult. In any case I am thinking about changing career and go for what I really love to do which is teaching mathematics and sciences to kids. So yesterday I went and I applied for a substitute-teaching certificate and I hope I can find a job as a mathematics teacher. Even though the pay is much less but I think the feeling of seeing some kids learning something from me worth millions. Thank you for all your help.

mehrdad	16 Oct 2001
Dear Purpolelady / marlene, I agree, after thinking about what I saw for days and nights, I have come to believe that what I perceived could not be just a simple coincidence (at least as far as my own personal life is concern) and there has to be something beyond what I think is the reality of things. This is like that Chinese man who dreamed to be a butterfly and after he woke up he was wondering that whether he was a man dreamed to be a butterfly or a butterfly dreaming to be a man. About the organized religion I read somewhere that some wise man has said that when God founds a religion Evil comes down to organize it. Evil man like Khominei or Bin-laden might truly be the agent of Evil but I wonder where is the God to protect us from Evil. In any case, when I read Koran or the Old Testament instead of sensing good, I only see a God who is always angry and mad and is threatening all the time to take people to “Hell” for making simple mistakes. I am just not too sure if I want to go to a heaven that is being ruled by an angry god. I wonder if one can be spiritual and still not believing in such a vengeful god. However, who am I to question the properties of God, and I am decisive in my quest to understand this “Jehovah” who called me in my vision. He left a red mark on my hand and a permanent memory of Himself in my mind for a reason and I eventually would find out that motive. I also wish you the best for caring and responding to my desperate request to find out something more about this question. May “Jehovah” blesses you.

Jane	16 Oct 2001
Mehrdad, Reguarding Crowley: Was he evil? I don't know. Sorting fact from fiction when it comes to him is difficult. I think he was an ego maniac that loved to shock people and really didn't care what they thought about him. I also think that some people have misinterpereted some of the things he said to suit thier own purposes. I do think he and Lady Harris created a beautiful and complex tarot deck. I have found many things he incorporated into the deck interesting and insightful. I don't agree with everything he wrote, but learning more about some of the subjects has added depth and meaning to the tarot for me. You will have to decide for yourself if this is true for you or not. Jane

MeeWah	16 Oct 2001
Mehrdad: If you are able to conceive that there is more than the apparent reality that meets the eye, you are heading in the right direction! Besides referring to your concerns regarding the uncertain & volatile climate of your present life, your vision also seems to refer to all that has encompassed your life up to the present. An indication of an opportunity to fashion a new life out of the ruins of the old. As in using the "clay" left behind--calling on your innate ability to imagine & to create. What we refer to as "starting from scratch". I agree with Jane about Crowley. Crowley was & is largely misunderstood. There is a saying that refers to a person as one who listens to the beat of a different drum(mer) & he was of that ilk. That he was mentally far advanced during his time & now is obvious; however, the line between genius & madman is a thin one. There seems to have been a method to his "madness". His was a quest for knowledge & for the power that knowledge confers. Whatever motivated him, he & Lady Harris made a valuable contribution to Tarot. I also recommend Carl Jung's "Man and His Symbols" for its detailed explanation of what comprises universal or archetypal symbols; his concept of individualization & the shadow self. There are no words to adequately express the horror of your family's experiences; however, you shall find the means to go forward to build a new life. Sharing of yourself & of your knowledge as a teacher seems an excellent avenue to explore. In that you remind me of a relative who has a similar goal in using the technical & scientific background as a teacher. Again, blessings & best wishes to you!

mehrdad	17 Oct 2001
Dear MeeWha and Jane This afternoon I received “The Book of Thoth” and “The Crowley Tarot” books and I immediately started reading and devouring them. I found both books very insightful and interesting but I must admit that “The Book of Thoth” is truly special. If you read books written by Khomenei, for example, from the beginning you immediately know that you are dealing with a sick and crazy individual whose motives are evil. However, Crowley’s writing is earth shattering and heavenly. From “the Book of Thoth”, I did read the first chapter (The theory of tarot) and I found such a wealth of knowledge that I felt humble and in comparison I found myself a dumb and confused entity. This book is purely mathematical but in a much higher level and this is like combining numbers with spirituality. Crowley could be the incarnation of Pythagoras and in his book; he has been able to combine Math with philosophy with such an ease and lucidity that amazes me. At this moment I think, I understand these Tarot cards and I feel that these confusing but beautiful imaginary paintings are becoming alive in front of my eyes and they are making a lot of sense now. I feel as though, I have found a certain purpose in my life and I believe that the key to understand my vision is hidden somewhere in what Crowley called “Qabalah” or the “Tree of Life” dogma. I thank both of you and those on this site that introduced me to this book and its companion book “The Crowley Tarot” and I feel like I own you guys something. I am looking forward to receive the Carl Jung’s set of books which I am certain would further expand my vision about the confusing world around me. Finally, I want to thank everyone who took the time and sensitivity to answer my call for help and I truly believe that I am on my path to find my answers, May the God Jehovah blesses all of us. Thank you and good night. Sincerely mehrdad.

Jane	17 Oct 2001
Hi Mehrdad, For a good introdution into Hermetic Qabala, I would recommend Robert Wang's "Qabalisic Tarot". It helped me alot in understanding what Crowley was talking about. He actually compares 4 decks in the book, his own Golden Dawn Tarot, Thoth, RWS, and Tarot de Marsielles. You can also find a lot of information on the internet. I used to have an excellent site for this, but unfortunately it is now longer available and I don't know if it moved or the owner just took it down. There are also several spellings of the word. It can start with a C, or a K, or a Q. Usually the C, refers to the original Jewish Cabala, from which the other forms are based. There is also a Chrisian form, usually starts with K, and the Hermetic form Q. The Hermetic form is usually associated with the tarot. I'm glad you like the BOT, I have just re-read it again myself, after learning a bit more about astrology. Good luck and happy learning, Jane

JustBlue	17 Oct 2001
Mehrdad, I would just like to take the opportunity to wish you the best of luck on your quest for spiritual life. Many blessings.

numbrel	17 Oct 2001
Mehrdad, I'm sorry I have come into this discussion late, but today I saw my friend who is from Iran and I told her about what you had posted. She is a Baha'i and she is in the US now because of the persecution her family faced in Iran. I have talked to many Iranian Baha'is who were persecuted and also lost family members and all their posessions. I am sorry to hear that the muslim clerics have also turned against people of their own faith. But, please realize that the clerics are not following the religion that Mohammad brought, but rather their own interpretation, just as bin Lauden is doing now. I had not heard the story you wrote about how God sends his religion down to man and the Devil organizes them. That is a good explanation of what has happened in the past. My friend has many Muslim friends and she says it is very common for Muslim women to attend Christian churches rather than go to the Mosque. I hope your mother finds a church that welcomes her. Peace and enlightenment on your journey. numbrel

truthsayer	18 Oct 2001
i found this quote tonight that i think fits this thread pretty well. "It is wonderful how much time good people spend fighting the devil. If only they would spend the same amount of energy loving their fellow men, the devil would die in his own tracks of ennui." helen keller i am so happy for you that the ppl here have opened their hearts and have helped you find your way during this difficult time. i find "bibliotherapy" very cathartic during times of crisis when i'm just trying to survive. best wishes on your journey.

mehrdad	18 Oct 2001
Dear Jane, I tried to order Robert Wang’s “Qabalisic Tarot: A textbook of Mystics” after reading your post but this book is nowhere to be found. It seems that this is an out of print publication and unfortunately is no longer available. I tried several bookstores in town but did not get anywhere. Do you have any knowledge about where I can find it?

mehrdad	18 Oct 2001
Dear JustBlue, Thank you for your kind words and I also ask my new found God, Jehovah, to bless you and all the good people in this site and all around the world. Just a month ago I had a stable country, which I really love (USA), I had a job and very good neighbors and I also was on my way to promotion and all the great material goodies. But now one by one I am losing all. My adapted country is going under of an umbrella of fear, suspicion and an economical disaster and some of my neighbors no longer trust me. I have lost my job and even though I have send many resume around no one even bothers to send me a “No”, forget about positive answers (Probably because I happened to have a Middle Eastern name). We have lost our only home back in the old country to the evil mullahs and my sister is in the verge of going to a poor house, and it breaks my heart that I can no longer help her financially or by any other means. However, with all these disasters that I am sure still has not ended, I feel great. I feel good because I believe I have gained something that I never had before and that is FATE. Even though my logic strongly denies the existence of a God but my heart and my nightly occurring visions (every single night since that night) telling me that He exists and He is carrying me on his shoulders. I think the “The Moon” card in the “Thoth decks” precisely describes how I feel or how I see my present condition. I am that poor soul who is standing at the beginning of the path that is pushing my conscious between the eerie watchmen and the dark towers of fear. The holy beetle is slowly and silently rolling the sun of my resurrection with its pincers out of the great darkness towards the morning light. I am that newborn child who is passing through the darkness of the birth canal so to become a wholeness self. In short, I have been given a chance to be born again and in my darkest hours I feel the happiest I have ever been.

mehrdad	18 Oct 2001
Dear numberl Please give my warmest hello to your friend and my dearest Bahai countrywoman whom I know has suffered greatly in the hand of criminal mullahs. Before revolution my older sister who is now in a great distress, used to live in “Padekan” in Shiraz, which I believe at that time, had the greatest population of Baha’is in Iran, so as a child my closest friends were Bahais and they are probably the true Moslems on this Earth. After the disease of Mullahs took hold in Iran, all of the Bahai’s homes and their belongings were taken away or set into fire. Some of them ran away to mountains and some others, including women and children, were savagely murdered and killed for the crime of innocence, which mullahs cannot tolerate. The fact is mullahs are doing and have been doing all these crimes against humanity to all the people in Iran, and they really do not care what is the religion or the race of their victims. Since coming to power they have mass murdered more Moslems than any other religion in Iran. I am sure your friend can substantiate this and this also has been reported by human rights organizations around the world. They have killed the best of our people, which included of Artists, politicians, technocrats, Engineers, Scientists and anyone who has talked about freedom or self-determination. Of course their killings are also done in the most vicious way, like beheading them or hanging them in streets. Just recently one of our freedom loving politicians (Darioush and Parvaneh Foruhar, both of them Moslems) were found in their home in Tehran while their heads were cut off. They have also send their assassins around the world to kill their opponents, likes of “Feridoon Farrokhzad” a famous Iranian singer and artist (a Moslem) who was forced to reside in Germany after the mullahs uprising, whose mutilated body was finally found by the German police after days of hearing the continues howling of his dogs and subsequent to his neighbors complaining about the unbearable smell coming from his home. In the early years of their evil government, they took thousands (some say around hundreds thousands) of very young people (my younger sister was one of them) to jail, again for the crime of virtuousness, and at the end of the golf war (war between Iran and Iraq) they first raped the young girls, some of them as young as thirteen years old, and then executed all of them (some of them had already finished their sentences) in one single night and then buried them in a mass grave around “Evin” jail (a political jail) in Tehran (read human right report published by UN). This might seems unbelievable to you but after the execution they also forced their families to pay for the bullets that were used to kill them. Who said that Evil does not exists?

mehrdad	18 Oct 2001
Dear truthsayer I truly enjoyed these codes especially the one about creating oneself, since that fits exactly to how I feel these days.

Jane	18 Oct 2001
Quote: mehrdad (18 Oct, 2001 15:53): Dear Jane, I tried to order Robert Wang’s “Qabalisic Tarot: A textbook of Mystics” after reading your post but this book is nowhere to be found. It seems that this is an out of print publication and unfortunately is no longer available. I tried several bookstores in town but did not get anywhere. Do you have any knowledge about where I can find it? Hi mehrdad, I did not realize this book is now more difficult to find. When I purchased mine a few years ago it was readily available. :( http://www.barnesandnoble.com/ says it will ship in 1-2 weeks. I found a place through amazon.com that says they have it in stock. It's called the Blue Eagle Book Shoppe and they have a toll free number you can call. 1-800-606-0617. You can buy this from them through the amazon z-shops. I have not used this service before so I can not recommend it one way or the other. Your bookstore may be able to order it with the following information, it can't hurt to ask. The full title of the book is, The Qabalistic Tarot : A Textbook of Mystical Philosophy, by Robert Wang. The IBSN is 0877286728. It was published by Red Wheel/Weiser. Hope this helps, Jane

purplelady	20 Oct 2001
[quote][b]mehrdad (14 Oct, 2001 15:43):[/b how can some gaming cards that have some nice and imaginary painting on them be the cause of such a thing since i did not have these problems until i received them. another fact is that until reading the responses i was not aware that water or coin might means tears and soul or a cat is the reflection of my shadow personality. my question to you is, if one does not know the meaning of these signals how could one’s imagination is able to create and attaches those meanings to them? [/quote] this is because "you" are so much more than you know! We only use something like 11 % of our brains you know (While "awake"). The dreaming subconscious holds and taps into many symbols and perhaps the collective unconscious and archetypes, unfettered by the physical body. The you that you know of and are aware of is really a small portion of your overall identity. Especially if you study physics, you may consider the possibliity that "you" exist in other dimensions that you are not consciously aware of here. The collective unconscious is a vast sea of symbols and stories that could even be genetic. You do not know your dna , yet it is you. You do not really even know how to breathe , yet you do! Sorry to get all metaphysical here! Yet , asking how you can dream of these meaningful symbols when you don't even consciously know what they mean is a perfect demonstration of how "Logic" and science isn't everything! You might even consider getting some books on dreaming or the mechanics of the dreaming mind , though I admit there are a lot of bad dream interpretation books out there.

hippychick	23 Oct 2001
Dear merhdad, thank you for sharing your dreams so freely with us. Your dream of your home, and the animals chanting one of the names of the Divine is beautiful - and at the end, through your desire, life (God) returns. The Jewish name of God is the most likely to be pronounced Ya-ho-va - no-one really knows how the holy Jewish name of God should be pronounced, as the last person who knew it died hundreds of years ago. Y-V- is the nearest that is known (Hebrew letters without indication of vowels or other sounds). On your dream with the steps - is it possible for you to remain lucid in the dream, and to decide whether to climb up, go down, or to go elsewhere? It sounds as though you are immobilised in these dreams, and that you do not like not knowing where you might be going? A big part of spiritual life (which I agree is a very different thing from organised religion!) is trust - having faith that the path *is* a path, that wherever you are going, you're okay. My sympathies for you on how you are being treated by some people now, and I hope you find another job/another source of funds soon. On Aleister Crowley, he was a genius in the realm of spiritual inquiry and occult knowledge ("occult" simply means hidden, the same as "esoteric"). Qabbalah (also spelled Cabbalah, or Kabbalah) is a system of Jewish mystical training that seeks to bring the soul into union with God. Each religion has its mystical side - Islam has Sufism, Judaism has Kabbalah, Christianity has Gnosis, the Grail tradition, and more. The goal of all is to realise the soul as in some way one with, and never separate from, God. The view of God is often very different from that peddled by organised religions - God is not far away but right here, right now; God is not separate but all around and within you and all life. (There is much in quantum physics which seems to support the mystic's view of life!) My thoughts (and, if you want them, my prayers) are with you. peace hc

cj	23 Oct 2001
[quote]truthsayer (12 Oct, 2001 12:43): that was an incredible vision. i like dream interp but i don't feel adequate to interpret such complex imagery. the chanting of "ya-ho-va" is prob jehovah another word for God. Truthsayer, the religion is Jehova Whitness. One of their goals in life is to spread the word of God. Please keep in my this is just my opinion and may be VERRY wrong. From someone who is very new..my fist impression was that you are being called back to your faith..that somewhere along the line, someone or just time led you astray - they were throwing rocks..did something happen to make you question your beliefs because they were not the sames as others- and it is time to "Come Back Home"..(I pray it is NOT Jehova Whitness). The old woman was mad that you neglected the animals..was angry - was she connected to your spirituality? I wish you luck in your quest for an answer.. I will pray for you. cj

cj	23 Oct 2001
please delete the above.. I tried but it was too late. Listen to the experts and your heart. cj

Greenman	23 Oct 2001
just a couple of quick observations, as i'm off to class, and don't have time to research right now. the silver coins put me in mind of the 'shekel of Tyre', the type coins of the infamous 'thirty pieces of silver' that were paid for the betrayal of Christ. also, could the words have been 'yah he vau he'? i admit this came to my mind before the idea of Jehovah. and lastly, the animals that seemed to inspire you, then were buried in the dust only to be dug out again by you. i'm thinking that the animals represent a symbol of 'the natural order of things', buried in the dust of the modern industrial age, and your quest to recover these concepts. or not.

Mystick Dragon	24 Oct 2001
Mehrdad: Powerful, simply powerful. I wish you luck on your journey into the spiritual, and want you to know, that I will be with you in hope. I will try to help you as much as possible, just ask. --Dragon

The Could someone interpret this please?Thanks thread was originally posted on 11 Oct 2001 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.