Looking for some advise on a deck in development.

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 12 Oct 2001, and now archived in the Forum Library.

seeker_11	12 Oct 2001
Hello, I'm in the process of designing a Tarot-deck based on the (original) Star Wars Trilogy. I would appreciate some comments from people here on the board about the look and feeling of the deck so far. I know that not all images are perfect, but I have to capture them from video (unless the perfect pic is available in print off course)... man I hardly can wait untill the DVDs come out ;) I put them all on the following site: http://www.geocities.com/to_seeker/ It's a very basic site (just a means of showing the cards to you), so don't expect anything fancy please. I would appreciate all comments. TIA, and may the Force be with you.

orczy	12 Oct 2001
I have just looked at your cards. They are really cool. I had a little trouble with your Moon card, but then I remembered the scene from which it is taken, and you are right. Luke is definately The Fool! Can't wait for the new film! Ar e you aware of another Satr Wars deck? I think it is listed here.

seeker_11	12 Oct 2001
Quote: orczy (13 Oct, 2001 09:47): Can't wait for the new film! Are you aware of another Star Wars deck? I think it is listed here. Aww... you got me blushing ;) And yes, I know of the Star Wars deck that's listed in the "unpublished decks" section. The layout is very nice. However, other than The Fool, the cards depicted just don't connect for me. What I know of the Star Wars lore and what I know of tarot don't fit in with the combinations s/he has chosen. And in case you wonder what else is coming, I have a list of all other images I still need to capture... time, off course, is a hole other question :) And yes, I'm also anxiously counting down to may 2002.

orczy	13 Oct 2001
I think your choices for the cards are more onto it than the other deck. The other one seems to be somewhat more superficial, for both the tarot and Star Wars. What is R2D2 going to be in your deck?

truthsayer	13 Oct 2001
i agree that your choices for the cards are more insightful than the other deck. the imagery is great and well thought out. i think the ace of staves would be better without the staves at the side. yoda pointing the stick clearly gets the "point" across. 10 of staves--for some reason i wonder if this image might be a good knight of staves? han solo is like leia's knight at that point. but whatever, the image is a keeper. at the point of looking stupid, who is the queen of staves? i don't recognize her or the line. the sabers are great! but drop me a hint on why you chose that image of han solo for the 8 of sabers? i'm sure it's just me and if i thought about it i would get it.

Jane	14 Oct 2001
Quote: truthsayer (14 Oct, 2001 00:57): at the point of looking stupid, who is the queen of staves? i don't recognize her or the line. Well color me stupid too. ;) I have no clue who that queen is or where the line came from. Jane

seeker_11	14 Oct 2001
Thanks for the positive comments so far :) Orczy: Although several characters may appear in different situations (or even stages of development. Jedi Knight Luke is clearly no Fool ;) )I have R2D2 scheduled as the page of Credits (pentacles). Truthsayer: Well, I must say i'm still looking for a better "staves" illustration. As for knight of staves, I do have a scene with Han in mind, but one where he's a little cockier :) Queen of staves: no, you're not stupid :) It's from one of the scenes that didn't make the final cut, but was quite important for the history of Luke. This is Camie, one of Luke's childhood friends (together with Biggs, Tank, Fixer and Deak) The scene is when he comes rushing in Toshe Station to talk about the "big space battle" (the opening scen of SW) and meets Biggs again (and hears about Biggs' plans to join the Rebellion) I guess that's one of the problems of having so little women with a speaking part in the original Trilogy :p Frozen Han for the 8 of sabers: I chose it because is almost an exact copy of the Rider-Waite image of the bound and helpless women for the same card. Hope this clarifies some questions.

truthsayer	14 Oct 2001
yes, thank you. your answers make perfect sense. how did you access the picture of camie? is she on one of the SW remakes or dvd? if so i'd like to see this part of the story. i saw this movie when it first came out around 1976. it's still my fav movie. for some reason i've never really gotten into the sw books like i have the movies. i was rather disappointed in the "phantom menace" but i may have been expecting too much. i hope the next one is better. is your tarot going to be based on the first 3 or include phantom menace, too? the emporer might make a good devil or death card but you are the one in charge of the millenium falcum! the emporer is a lot more imp in the overall story than came out in the original trilogy. how do you think he figures into the cards if at all? thanks for sharing your wonderful creation w/ us.

Major Tom	15 Oct 2001
I've had a look and I think it looks really good. I don't know enough about the Star Wars story to comment on the appropriateness of the photos you've used. The resolution from the captured video doesn't do your cards any justice. Have you considered contacting Lucas Films for some hi-res photos? Which makes me want to ask if there are some copywrite issues? Lucas Films might even be interested in marketing - particularly as you're putting so much research into the appropriateness of each card. }>

Kiama	15 Oct 2001
Well, I'm writing as a MAJOR fan of all the movies. I've written over 100 spoofs of each film in script form, drawn cartoons for those spoofs, parodied songs for it, etc... If anyone wants to read them just email me, and I'll do my best to sned them to you, but be warned: The humour can get really sick. Anyway, I LOVE YOUR TAROT DECK! I esp. think the Moon was chosen well. I looked at it and the first thought was YES! I GET THAT! Of course, if you don't know the films, you won't get it. I also found the quote from the Empress rather tickling. The only thing I was annoyed about with the films is that I never saw the originals. So I am a bit lost when Fixer's Girlfriend (Forgotten her name from the lost Anchorhead scenes!) showed up as Queen of Staves. I've never seen her before. Oh, Camie's her name! BTW: Did you know she's an ex-porn star? And I think that the wand on the side of the Ace of Staves is out of place, I prefer it without. I have an idea for the World : The Ewok Celebration. The bit at the end of Jedi with all the fires blazing it the night, and people from all cultures dancing? It was the end of one adventure, but it you read the books, about three days after that, they being a new one. (Forgotten which book it is!) I think the 8 of Sabers is very well chosen as well. Now, I'd better go before I start rambling about pointless facts I know about the films! Kiama

nexyjo	15 Oct 2001
i am a huge star wars fan. i've seen each of the three movies dozens of times, and the original is my all time favorite movie. regarding your deck, i have mixed feelings. many of the images you chose work for me, and some don't. i'm not sure that's an issue though - i suppose it would depend on what your intentions are for this. if it's for your own personal use, then it really doesn't matter what i think of each image. if it's for eventual publication, i still don't think what i think has much to do with anything. what a majority of people think would be more relevant. one major negative comment. i hate the quotes at the bottom - frankly, that ruins it for me. because of those, i don't think i could use the deck. personally, i think the images stand much better by themselves. of course, i say this from the perspecyive of someone who could probibly recite from memory the lines that came from each image, so again, my perspective might not be relevant. on the other hand, i'd imagine that someone who would be interested in purchasing such a deck would be a fan just like me, and might also be able to recite the dialog associated with each image from memory. be that as it may, in my humble opinion, get rid of the dialog at the bottom of the cards. overall, i liked the deck so far. and if the dialog were dropped, i'd probibly buy a copy were it to be published. actually, i wan't aware that a star wars tarot was available. sheesh, now i gotta look into buying that one too... luv and light, nexy

Kiama	15 Oct 2001
Nexy: Not dissing your personal opinion here, but I found the quotes on the bottom of each card to be quite useful. I too can recite all of the four films, but I still found them handy, and sometimes they are funny. Just my personal opinion though so yours is just as valid as mine. Also I found that with some cards you can't tell what excatly is happenning (Cuz of the low res. pix) without referencing the quotes. Well, most of them are related to the scene in the card,but not all of them. Kiama

purplelady	15 Oct 2001
I really like the lovers, chariot, and death. But one thing to consider is copyright laws. Do you intend to publish the deck? Many decks people have created using pictures/characters from movies, other celebrities etc, go unpublished for this very reason , unfortunately.

purplelady	15 Oct 2001
p.s. I think a young annikan walker would be the perfect fool. Oh , and please many more pictures of Harrison Ford ;-) }> ^_^ !

seeker_11	15 Oct 2001
Wow... another list of answers and remarks coming up :) New cards are added. New and improoved (I hope) version of Staves cards as well. Camie: that picture comes from the "Star Wars, Behind the Magic" CD-ROM. These scenes was never included, not in the original movies, nor the videos, nor the Special Edition. I hope they'll be included on the DVDs. They are, however, included in all novelisations and the official script-books. (And yes, I'm aware that Koo Stark did play something else as well) Resolution: I fully agree. But in all, I'm already glad that I can take videocaptures with my own installation. I don't have what you might call an professional editing studio. So I guess I'll have to live by the old expression "be happy with what you've got". Now at least I've got a reason to browse all my books and magazines again for high-res pictures :p I have a chance of borrowing a friend's laser-disks next month... hope that might result in improoved captures. If only I could drw... I'd redraw all the scenes myself (and then they'd fit better on a classic formmat card as well) Ep. I? No this is only based on the original trilogy. The world: hmmm... lemme look at my notes... "21 World - Ewok Celebration at the end of ROJ"... naaah, nobody will accept that ;) Btw. That book is "Truce at Bakura" by Kathy Tyres. Publishing/Copyright: I wasn't really planning on publishing this officially. It's more for personal enjoyment, but I wanted to have some "professional" opinions as well. I wouldn't mind if it were published officially, but I fear that's quite a small chance, me being in no way aligned with any licenced company (and boy, are they on a strikt list), and absolutely not having the means to finance a publication anyway. I do guess I should post a copyright notice somewhere though ;) Oh and Kiama... there *are* no pointless facts about Star Wars (or as I like to call them "The Gospels according to Lucas")

tarotbear	15 Oct 2001
We have been around this block before; George Lucas is in control here and what you want to do with 'his' images needs his permission. You can contact Lucasfilm about securing some images -- good luck! Rememeber- he has probably been approached about similar projects like this before, so don't be surprized if they do not greet you with open arms . This is not to say that what you want to do is impossible; in fact, although never a big Star Wars fan myself ( Yes, there are some of us out there), the idea is quite workable. However, you would be advised to try to get Lucas' support before you go too far, or you may find yourself on the receiving end of a 'cease and desist' order. The magic words to remember are "Copyrighted Images" - do you have premission to reproduce them? I had to pay US Games INC $250 to reproduce the Rider deck images whether my book sees print or not.

truthsayer	15 Oct 2001
i know someone who claimed to somehow contact george lucas (or his ppl)about allowing her to do a star wars tarot. he told her absolutely not! but if he changed his mind he'd let her know. so i get the feeling he's been approached about this several times. my understanding is that the star wars movies are very personal thing to him and he's disinclined to let any thing that personal to him get out of his hands. btw, i found this bit of stars wars trivia interesting but prob all fans knew this but me. "skywalker" is another word for an angel. it adds to the stars wars mythology context. have you ever seen the videos or read the book,"the power of myth" by bill moyers and joseph campbell? in the book, they bring out that lucas was a campbell fan and used his mythology theories to make star wars more believable. i'd say it definitely worked! on the video, they shoot some film at skywalker ranch. i can't remember for certain but it seems that george lucas talks some about campbell's influence on the films. have you ever seen a copy of the "rock and roll" tarot by chris paradis? your pictures and the quotes remind me of that deck. the quotes on r&r are a good guide b/c i don't remember all those bands or ppl even tho i remember the songs. i find your quotes a useful guide like on r&r. i doubt i'll ever read w/ paradis' deck but even if i don't it is a remarkable piece of artwork. i'm glad i have it as a collector deck. if you haven't seen it, i think it's listed at aeclectic. it might even help you some w/ your deck. the pictures in the r&r aren't totally clear either but that doesn't keep it from being powerful! keep up the great work!

Kiama	16 Oct 2001
Did you know that in one of the final drafts of the scripts, Luke's surname was gonna be Starkiller? There' just some pointless facts. Purplelady: I TOTALLY agree with the idea of having more Han Solo piccies.... I've had a thing for him since I first saw the films. Okay, so he's nearly 60, but if my future husband looks ANYTHING like that good when he's 60, I will be the happiest woman alive. The same goes for Sean Connery. back to the actual deck. I kinda agree that you're not including Ep. 1. I think there's plenty of stuiff in the original three for a Tarot deck anyway, and Ep 1 doesn't really carry the same amount of status, enigma, etc, etc.... Kiama

The Looking for some advise on a deck in development. thread was originally posted on 12 Oct 2001 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.