Crowley?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 19 Nov 2001, and now archived in the Forum Library.

C.N.	19 Nov 2001
Hi, "Everyone" seems to have a dislike for Crowley, but what is exactly the issue? Why is he disliked? Have a nice day, C.N.

catlin	19 Nov 2001
Hi, Merry Meet and Welcome, I do not like Crowley because he turned wiccan laws right the way what suited him best, ie "do as you please and harm none" - he just left out the "harm none" which is an essential point when you use magic(k). Besides, he was very fond of sacrificing animals during rituals - another point which gives me the creeps. I am an animal protector and I cannot accept harming a defenseless creature. If you want to get a better picture of A. Crowley - the selfcalled "beast" - just take a look in one of the biographies which are available.

moon	19 Nov 2001
Well, first of all, Crowley was not a Wiccan. And the whole "Do what thou wilt" thing, minus 'harm none' is NOT a rede. It means something else entirely. It doesn't mean 'do whatever the hell you want.' I'm not a thelemic or anything, but I'm gonna give this my best shot here... It means finding out what it is your ultimate will/destiny to do. Fulfilling your potential to the highest degree. Discovering what it is you ultimately will to do. It has nothing to do with the Rede. Seriously. And while I'm not a fan of Crowley either, I made an effort to educate myself about him a bit before making snap judgments. Blessings, Jess

EveAnna	19 Nov 2001
Hi C.N. :) , If your really interested in reading more about Aleister Crowley, just type his name into one of the search engines, there are many websites about him out there - when I was interested in acquiring the Thoth deck I did some research on him. Most of it makes facinating reading and will surely tell you all you need to know about him. Hope this helps :)

Kimon	20 Nov 2001
Hi, I respect Crowley a lot, though that doesn't mean that I couldn't be critical about him. Basicly I think we have to look to what he did before looking to how he behaved; after all he is dead now. And there is no one in this area that has had such an enourmous influence than him. There would be no Scientology and no Hippie Culture without him (by the way, both misunderstood him and he did not approve them, as well as he hated the Church of Satan, which put him on their flags). Anyway I think to know him, you should not only read about him, but also read him directly; he left more than enough texts. I would recommend as an easier beginning the Liber Aleph, and also his autobiography, as well as the Law of Liberty. As a basic law to judge Crowley I for myself learned that every simple statement about him is wrong, doesn't matter which one. Greetings, Kimon

Freddie	20 Nov 2001
Before I read Mr. Crowley's books and books about him, I admit I did admire him. The cold hard facts are the cold hard facts and that the way it is always going to be. He believed and behaved as he did (and offered no excuses) and I can't find any reason to put rose colored glasses on to make him appear as a nicer person. He was evil (666) and liked it that way. In my opinion, he reminds me of alot of the "spoiled drug addict" rock stars (maybe that's why they like him...) that don't give a s**t about anyone but themselves. He was/is a tarot-kabalah (however you choose to spell it) genius, but that does not get him off the hook with everyone in the occult movement. He liked being hated and singled out, (he did wicked evil things to create that image) because it gave him the attention he always craved. It's just the way he was and either you like him or you don't. Crowley did not start the "flower power/ hippie movement" (ever hear of Jack Keroac or James Dean?) and as far as I know he was dead ('47?) before the advent of the satanic church in San Francisco. Freddie

deso	20 Nov 2001
Crowley's famous line was "Do what thou wilt, shall be the whole of the law". Interpret that as you wish. The only autobiographies I've read on him were by Colin Wilson (I think) and Israel Regardie. As I have a very high opinion of Israel Regardie, I tended to believe his version more. Wilson's just seemed like sensation-mongering anyway. After reading Regardie's (something about an eye - I forget - I gave the book to a friend many years ago), my opinion of Crowley ended up as such: he leaned far too much on his intellectual prowess (which is nothing if it isn't tempered by the wisdom of the heart) and not enough on self-improvement and self-knowledge. Without ever having dealt with the serious issues caused by mean-spirited fundamental Christians in his youth, he forged full force ahead into areas that need psychological stability to expand consciousness in healthy measures. This was his greatest down-fall. He just couldn't (and wouldn't) deal with all his pain, insecurities, and fragile ego (which of course than explodes into ego-mania). As for his deck, I own it, it's not one of my favourites, nor is it disliked. It just is.

Kimon	20 Nov 2001
Quote: Freddie (20 Nov, 2001 21:46): Before I read Mr. Crowley's books and books about him, I admit I did admire him. The cold hard facts are the cold hard facts and that the way it is always going to be. He believed and behaved as he did (and offered no excuses) and I can't find any reason to put rose colored glasses on to make him appear as a nicer person. He was evil (666) and liked it that way. In my opinion, he reminds me of alot of the "spoiled drug addict" rock stars (maybe that's why they like him...) that don't give a s**t about anyone but themselves. He was/is a tarot-kabalah (however you choose to spell it) genius, but that does not get him off the hook with everyone in the occult movement. He liked being hated and singled out, (he did wicked evil things to create that image) because it gave him the attention he always craved. It's just the way he was and either you like him or you don't. Crowley did not start the "flower power/ hippie movement" (ever hear of Jack Keroac or James Dean?) and as far as I know he was dead ('47?) before the advent of the satanic church in San Francisco. Freddie Hello, well, if you are so sure about the real Crowley there is nothing more to say...:-) Of course he was dead when Flower Power and Church of Satan started. That wasn´t the point, the question is where these movements came from. I know Keroac and also James Dean. Do you know what they have read? Crowley´s thoughts, misunderstood or not, were not just one of many to be used by important people of that time, but gave a stable basis to many philosophies that were created and lived then. "Do what thou wilt", "Every man and every women is a star" and "Love is the law" made their way through the whole of the 20th century. I don´t think that it is a question of liking or not Crowley to see that he had a huge influence. Greetings, Kimon

Freddie	20 Nov 2001
It's just my opinion and that's all, nothing more. Freddie

Freddie	21 Nov 2001
Well Kimon, I did some research and your right that Mr. Crowley did influence the 60's generation (and a few of the earlier 50's beatniks Jimmy Dean never read Crowley though, but did read "The Golden Bough"). Here in America the occult revolution didn't really start until maybe 1966 and then people (not just hippie youth) got into Crowley, A.E. Waite, Gardner, Sybil Leek, Hans Holzer, etc... The Beatles, Stones, Led Zepplin, and The Doors helped bring Crowley to the masses here. In fact, I learned about him through reading about Led Zepplin guitarist Jimmy page. I guess he is just a subject that "new age-occult" people will always disagree on like Ouija, for example. Kind of keeps it interesting, eh. Carry On, Freddie

Kassia	21 Nov 2001
I think that some of the problem is that people tend to quote part of what he said, but not other parts... for instance, "Love is the law, love under Will" has to go with the "Do what thou Wilt shall be the whole of the law" (which Gardender and Wicca came to via Crowley, not the other way around!) - and that's not so different from things St. Augustine said! When Crowley talked about Will, and do what thou wilt, he didn't mean "do whatever you want" - he meant the Will of your soul, Will as your underlying spiritual purpose. I found that reading in depth about Crowley gave me much more respect for him, although of course he was a deeply messed up person and there's plenty in his writing and life that I don't admire! I do think that he continues to be misunderstood and often misrepresented.

purplelady	28 Nov 2001
I'm no Crowley expert. But I would like to learn a bit more about him. Perhaps someone would recommend one book that isn't too long or archaic? I've just come from the bookstore where they stock quite a few books authored by Crowley. There's the" book of Thoth","777",one called "Moonbeam ", or" moongirl "or something. And one very thick book called "diary of a drug fiend" (or drug addict , I forget which)That chronicles his drug addiction to heroin and cocaine (guess 'ya learn something new every day!) . I've heard that Crowley said things or was condescending to women. Also that he started his own occult church , having been with and left the golden dawn .

AmounrA	28 Nov 2001
Crowley is disliked mainly due to mis-information and rumours spead about him during his own lifetime. The establishment of the time, both political and religous hated crowley and everything he represented. Campains where run against him in newspapers of the day 'most evil man in the world'. Crowley, was in many ways his own worst enemy, and would make no compramises to these people, often stirring it more.( he has a fantastic sense of humour, which his critics ignore, taking everything he says as literally what he believes) This said though, Crowley was a real genius, and has done more for 'magick' than any man, possibly in history. His work 'book 4' is a tor de force. In his life Crowley accomplished a great deal. He was one of the fist men to climb on 'K2', in an era when just getting into the Karakoram mountains was a big comitment. He was widley travelled, south america, africa, asia, visiting mountains deserts and places which even to this day are hard to reach. He was one of the first westerners to study yoga and meditation to an extremly high standard. He was a 33 degree freemason, who went on to be one of the early members of the Golden Dawn( they did some marvelous work on the tree of life and taro connections with it) .He could play chess blindfolded.He was banned from Italy for setting up a magikal 'lodge'( villa calderazzo). In 1904 , in egypt he made contact with a spirit (secret chief) called Aiwazz. He was used to channel a work called the 'book of the law( liber 418). This work is extremley powerful, and I have no doubt it was channeled from the 'hidden' masters. Using this work as his mandate he set up Thelma, a magikal group that uses liber 418 as its central doctrine. Thelma is a very open and loving order, its motto " DO WHAT THOU WILT SHALL BE THE WHOLE OF THE LAW" and its reply " LOVE IS THE LAW, LOVE UNDER WILL". ( also the saying 'every man and woman is a star) Crowley wrote many excellent books, 'the book of lies' is extremley interesting. The thoth taro deck is quite probably the best and most effective taro deck ever devised ( the book for these cards is also a must read for any serious student of the taro) He was scientific also, and he had a great respect for Einstein, and was well versed in the then early discoveries in 'quantum theory'. The best book about Crowley is undoubtebly 'THE EYE IN THE TRIANGLE' by Israel Regardie. It gives an excellent account of a most astonishing man. :-)

Strange2	29 Nov 2001
Aleister Crowley continues to elicit strong reactions, and certainly epitomizes the attitude of: GO FOR IT! My personal take on him is twofold: - As a human being, he seemed to be egotistical, self-centered and sometimes cruel to those who where in his path but not on his path. - As a practitioner of the mystical and magical arts and sciences, he was a devoted, relentless trailblazer and an occult genius, and we have benefited greatly from his works. Here's a good online bio of Aleister Crowley, from Villa Revak: http://jwrevak.tripod.com/bio/crowley_1.html Online versions of two of his most famous books: - Magick in Theory and Practice: http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~eclectic/o/thelema/mitap/ - The Book of Thoth: http://www.angelfire.com/celeb/Crowley/thoth/thoth.html http://www.rahoorkhuit.net/library/thoth/

purplelady	29 Nov 2001
Thank you AmounrA for that info. And thanks strange2! I read the online bio,which was informative and fascinating. Crowley's definition of magick "The science and Art of causing change to occur in conformity with will" And the main goal of magick, "Invocation of the holy guardian angel(mystical union with the divine) Crowley never had a real job but inherited his wealth from his father , who inherited it from his father from a beer factory.He didn't create the Thoth Tarot and book of Thoth 'til age 63 . One of his books was written by a spirit channeled by Crowley, from which he started his own magical order.He loved to create and join magickal orders. And he was bi-sexual. One thing I noticed , on the second link strange2 posted, the book of thoth, the colors on the cards are SO beautiful, they look much nicer than my deck. I don't think I've ever seen the deck in such clear vivid colors. Is this just the way it photographed for the site? Or is there really a deck that has these clear colors?

JustBlue	03 Dec 2001
Regarding the colours of the Toth deck. It is more vivid because it is copied from an edition with better quality. I do not know exactly what edition(s) that is this way, but maybe someone else can fill you in on that?

purplelady	06 Dec 2001
I came across this site which has tons of information: http://www.maroney.org/CrowleyIntro/ check it out.

DeLani	12 Dec 2001
Quote: purplelady (30 Nov, 2001 15:55): Thank you AmounrA for that info. And thanks strange2! I read the online bio,which was informative and fascinating. Crowley's definition of magick "The science and Art of causing change to occur in conformity with will" And the main goal of magick, "Invocation of the holy guardian angel(mystical union with the divine) Crowley never had a real job but inherited his wealth from his father , who inherited it from his father from a beer factory.He didn't create the Thoth Tarot and book of Thoth 'til age 63 . One of his books was written by a spirit channeled by Crowley, from which he started his own magical order.He loved to create and join magickal orders. And he was bi-sexual. One thing I noticed , on the second link strange2 posted, the book of thoth, the colors on the cards are SO beautiful, they look much nicer than my deck. I don't think I've ever seen the deck in such clear vivid colors. Is this just the way it photographed for the site? Or is there really a deck that has these clear colors? You probably have the older (1978) edition of this deck -- the large one that has kind of a green tinge to the cards. A newer, smaller, more vivid edition was published by U.S. Games in 1983. It's much easier to handle and the colors are wonderful! You should be able to find it at your favorite Tarot store; it's pretty common. Good luck with it!

The Crowley? thread was originally posted on 19 Nov 2001 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.