Tarot and Christianity

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 20 Feb 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Cally	20 Feb 2002
As far as I know Tarot cards are not against Christianity. I'm a Christian and I was wondering if Tarot Cards are really frowned down upon or do a lot of Christians use them? This just occured to me today when I was looking at my universal waite deck and the pentacles which are a witch symbol right? So do Tarot cards have something to do with being a witch? Also, I'm not Roman Catholic, I'm Eastern Orthodox Christian, does that change anything? Help poor little confused me :(

VGimlet	21 Feb 2002
If it makes you feel better, it's the upside-down pentagram that is/was known as a "witch" symbol. According to all the reading I've been doing, the right-side-up pentagram was used to ward off evil. I have heard there are some Christian focused decks out there, although not being Christian myself, I don't know what they are. (Maybe the Connolly deck?) edited because of my late-night switch of the words pentacle and pentagram. Doh!

Kiama	21 Feb 2002
Hi Cally! (Don't know if I've welcomed you to this forum before, butif not, WELCOME!!) Nowadays, the pentagram is worn by some Witches and Pagans, but Witches and Pagans aren't bad. We're nomal people with normal jobs and lives. I know of plenty of Christians who use Tarot cards. They see it as a way to heal, and strengethen their relationship ith God. BTW Something interesting: One of King Arthur's Knights went into battle with a Pentagram in red on his shield for protection. (Can't think for the life of me who it was now!) Kiama

Pollux	21 Feb 2002
When I started using Tarot Cards, I used to be a Christian. People kept moaning and getting at me for it - but I didn't care a straw about them and their nagging... I knew I was only doing something I liked that harmed no one. Now, I happen to be a wiccan... so quite a good half of my problems is gone :D There's on contraddiction however. Tarots are full of images, often derived from Christian Culture. As for the Pentacles, try to look on the Devil Card: the Pentacle is upside-down. And think about the Feng-shui: the diagram of generation is circular - earth / metal(gold) / water / tree / fire / earth - but that of distruction is a star upright - Earth / Water / Fire / Metal / Tree / Earth. It's all about energy and flowing... I don't think that is a BAD thing. :)

Thirteen	21 Feb 2002
Quote: Cally (21 Feb, 2002 13:56): Also, I'm not Roman Catholic, I'm Eastern Orthodox Christian, does that change anything? Help poor little confused me :( Eastern Orthodox might be different, but yes, Judeo-Christian tradition doesn't much like Tarot because it's a "fortune-telling" tool. The idea in Judeo-Christian tradition is that only God can give you visions and prophecies. And that fortune-tellers are using other "magics" not from God (or from different Gods) to get their visions. SOME (but certainly not all) Judeo-Christian religions get very mad at you if they think you're getting, or trying to get, a mystical view of the present or future from any god other than the ONE GOD...though I've never rightly figured out how, if there is ONLY ONE God, you could be getting your visions from anywhere else....* Which, I believe, is the reasoning of most Christian Tarot readers. Get Connolly's book (and you'd probably like her deck, too) for beginning readers. I think she explains how she maintains both a strong Christian faith and a love of the Tarot. *Actually, I know the answer to that question. If your read your old testament carefully, you'll see that the One God is only the God of the 12 tribes. It was accepted that there were other Gods (the Hebrew god effectively beat out the Egyptian gods)--otherwise, why would God have cared that the Hebrews worshiped a Golden Calf? What does it matter what form they worship the one and only God in? So when the old testament said, "No fortune tellers!" they were essentially saying, "Stick to your own religion!"

Liliana	21 Feb 2002
woo hoo, time to shamlessly plg myself, please excuse ;) I have a list on yahoogroups called Christian-Tarot, for Christians who read Tarotandfor studying Christiansymbolism in the cards, andfor basically anything combiningChristianityand theTarot lol, its pretty big, but itseems all our memebers died this week, no ones saying anything :P We were discussing the Fool, butsinceeveryone diedithink I'll move on to the magician soon. We also do a weekly reading exchange if you want. eventually we are to have lessons as well Follow this link to join http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Christian-Tarot/ Let me dig up a post there i had on Christian Tarot,Ill post it here

Liliana	21 Feb 2002
woo hoo, time to shamlessly plg myself, please excuse ;) I have a list on yahoogroups called Christian-Tarot, for Christians who read Tarotandfor studying Christiansymbolism in the cards, andfor basically anything combiningChristianityand theTarot lol, its pretty big, but itseems all our memebers died this week, no ones saying anything :P We were discussing the Fool, butsinceeveryone diedithink I'll move on to the magician soon. We also do a weekly reading exchange if you want. eventually we are to have lessons as well Follow this link to join http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Christian-Tarot/ Let me dig up a post there i had on Christian Tarot,Ill post it here

Jewel	21 Feb 2002
Hi Cally, I am not familiar with the specifics of your religion, but I do live with a devout Roman Catholic (my mom). She was extremely concerned with my interest in Tarot (and my deck collection *LOL*), but has been more open minded once I explained my interest to her, and have tried every once in a while to share some cards with her (primarily from my Tarot for Cats deck which is accurate, and really funny). I think she is still skeptical about whether they are evil or not, but overall I think she is starting to realize that they are no more evil than playing cards which she does enjoy. As for the pentacle. As Kiama shared with you many Witches and Pagans do wear this symbol. In centuries past the pentacle and pentagram (5 pointed star with a circle around it) have been a symbol of protection. I am Pagan, Wiccan specifically. To me the pentacle symbolizes protection, and the elements of water, earth, air, fire and spirit. In addition if you outstreach your limbs you will see that it is the shape of the human body (2 arms, 2 legs and your head). As noted in an earlier post, it is the reversed pentagram that is often associated with Satanism (which is not a Pagan religion) although sometimes it is used to mark second degree level achievement in some covens and continues to carry a positive vs. negative connotation. If you would like more information on what Witches really are, and what they believe, I would like to encourage you to visit the spirituality section of the Aeclectic Forums. The Connolly deck and book suggestion is a great one in relation to your question. Love & Light,

Cally	21 Feb 2002
Thanks a lot everyone. I decided not to give up on my Tarot Cards. I don't know why I even got worried about religion. I've done so many things that my religion prohibits much more strictly than Tarot Cards so if I'm going to hell it won't be for the Tarot Cards :) Besides I haven't set foot in church in 8 years, which is half of my life. I actually go back and forth between Christianity and Atheism, can't seem to make up my mind. I was just bored and couldn't sleep and suddenly I started thinking about religion and posted this. Once I got up I happily picked up my deck of cards and a book (I'm just starting out so I try to read a bit every day). But thanks for your advice! I think I'll join your group Liliana

Liliana	21 Feb 2002
I am a Christian, and personally I dont like the Connolly deck, tho the book seems nice. The deck is overly positive, there are some negatives in life and I prefer to know such things, not gloss over them. Thats why I recommend the standard Rider Waite for someone who wants a Christian deck. It is much more balanced, and Christian symbols abound (Judgement, the Devil, pillars of High Priestess, tree of knowledge and tree of life in lovers, various angels) Tho I do say Universal Waite is much nicer on looks. As for pentacles, I must say that for a large period of time Christians used them to represent the 5 wounds of Christ, and you'll find them on many churches in europe. Oh, and about decks, if you like Saints I recommend the Tarot of the Saints it seems really nice :) Oh yeah, I have to get that post I wrote

Liliana	21 Feb 2002
This is what I wrote, its specifically about the Tarot deck not being evil. First, as to cards not beig evil, take a good hard look at them. There is so much Christian symbolism, Im talking about the standars Rider Waite here. The pillars on the High Priestess are from Solomons temple if I remember correctly, shes even wearing a cross. The lovers are Adam and Eve. The Judgement card shows the final Judgement of mankind. The Devil is definately a Christian figure, tho seen as a negative one. The tower in older decks was named the house of God, and the hierophant used to be the pope. This is what I thought of just of the top of my head. If your problem is biblical prohibition against divinition, then how do you explain the gift of prophecy, the Urim and Thurim (might of spelled that wrong), or the apostles drawing lots.My opinion is the prohibition is aggainst looking to negative sources for the information and not to God or pssibly his Angels. It all boils down to how you believe Tarot works. Some believe it taps into the Unconscience mind, which is a part of ourselves. If that is the case and we are God created, how can that be a bad thing? If you believe God leads the cards to give you the correct answer He will (this falls under the Holy Spirit). If you believe that other spirits give the answers, it is there were you have to make sure the Spirits you deal with are anels and not of the negative variety. The other reason prophecy was forbidden in my mind is that it steps on free will. Picture a Gypsy reading in a B rate movie were she says "You will meet a tall dark man who will kill you". That is wrong, the reader is not giving the readee an option to use her free will to change it. All readers know the cards will only say what will happen given current trends.Your free will can totally falsify a reading if you choose a different path, and thats a good thing :)

Mateo06	21 Feb 2002
I had this very same problem not more than about a 3 weeks ago, and I decided that tarot is a way to speak to God. And someimtes its easier to look at something than to just say out loud and hope he hears u. And we're only mortal and as mortals we usually need something physical, something we can touch smell hear taste or see.So its just a way of getting closer to God

sif	22 Feb 2002
Kiama: I believe it was Sir Gawain. It's described in Sir Gawain and the Green Knight.... ugh, forced to read it in school. Totally ruined it for me, unfortunately.

Kiama	22 Feb 2002
Sif: Thanks!

aeonx	22 Feb 2002
Dear Cally. I hope you won't ever throw away your tarot-cards, as I see them as a valuable, and powerful, tool to connect with our higher powers. Mateo06 says it nicely; getting closer with God (or whatever you would call the higher powers). I am a believer, but I won't identify with Christianity. There has been so much pain in the name of religions, that I would rather just say I'm a believer in higher powers. But that's a whole discussion in itself... :) I wish you good luck on your journey! ~aeonx~

tarotbear	22 Feb 2002
Before I became a witch, pentacles and pentagrams scared me because I was told they were 'bad', the same way everyone is indocrinated about what is good and bad as a child. When I became an adult, I was able to think for myself and found out a lot of what I was taught was nothing short of prejustice. My problem with tarot is that it keeps getting over-christianized. In my opinion, the catholic church tried to destroy tarot and all forms of divination as a way to show they were the 'one and only kid on the block'. By making the tarot into a christian 'vehicle', I feel that we are denying the pain and suffering that those who used it suffered. A symbol here or a symbol there might have been changed so that the church would not be aware of a few things (The same way that Santa Barbara is not a saint at all but a powerful non-christian diety), but I feel that Ms. Connolly's deck is too cute, over-sanitized. I find that her way must work for her ( can't deny that), but to call on Jesus and ask for a 'good & true card reading' just seems silly and overdone to me. Maybe she's 'over-compensating' for the ill deeds of her religion?

rubikon	23 Feb 2002
When I was 12 or so, my parents used to take me to plays at the local arts theater called the Pentacle Theater. My aunt played piano for Gypsy Rose (about a stripper) and other plays. I heard that pentacles are banned from being worn at US schools. True?

Mateo06	24 Feb 2002
I doubt that is true rubikon. As in the us we have freedom of expression. but as religion and state have to be divided i can see how i could be banned. but it would be just like banning someone to say a prayor in school. wouldn't it? i see the makings for a very serious and indepth conversation

jmd	24 Feb 2002
Tarot and Christianity are certainly compatible, and the Tarot arose within a very Christian context. Waite himself was a deeply Christian man, as were many others who have been influential in the development and/or history of the Tarot. If you are interested, I suggest you take a look at the book titled Meditations on the Tarot, published by Elements, and another titled Tarot and the Bible. As with any religious tradition, there will be members of the Orthodox Church who will oppose the Tarot (through, in my opinion, just plain ignorance), and others who will embrace it as a tool which may be used to bring the aspirant closer to the inner spiritual path within that very same religious tradition.

Liliana	24 Feb 2002
Pentacles arent banned, but wearing one might cause you grief. Ut willoutcast you, make people think you are evil, make teachers think you are "bad" even ifyou aren't, all kinds of bad things. Some places in the south where conservative christianity is the rule have tried to ban them I believe, but if they ban a pentacle they have to ban a cross as well, and it seems they wont do that.

jmd	24 Feb 2002
Pentacles have also been used for centuries amongst Christians. There is a church in Melbourne (Aust.), amongst numerous others I have seen overseas, which has a large pentacle above the front door. It usually is described as depicting the five wounds of Christ (the two feet, the two hands, and the crown of thorns on the head... though sometimes this fifth wound is said to be the inter-rib spear wound). In the early decks which used the pentacles instead of coins, such as the Wirth and then Waite decks, it represented the Spiritual (or quintessence) fifth element above the four elements. Also known as the Pentalpha (5 A), is was used by the Pythagoreans as a symbol for health. So, even if you have problems with its common association with various forms of neo-paganism, keep in mind that this symbol has been used by Occidental mystical traditions outside this later association. Certainly the medieval Magicians who also used it were deeply Christian.

Diana	25 Feb 2002
edited

DeLani	25 Feb 2002
Hi all, I'm going to jump in with my 2c: First, the pillars behind the High Priestess represent the Kabbalistic pillars Boaz and Joachim, making the HP the "middle Pillar," or the more direct road to enlightenment. Second, the ban on pentagrams in US schools is true. Not all schools, just some in the South. They call it either a "gang symbol" or a "cult symbol." I had to fight that crap 16 years ago, when I was in school... and it's still here. Lastly, A.E. Waite wasn't Christian in the sense of the word as we know it. He was a member of the Golden Dawn, a Kabbalist. Which is a little different... They still worship YHVH, but it has a very different meaning than the old bearded white guy in the sky that most Christians worship. It has different aspects, and has a feminine side. Close in some ways to Gnosticism (I hope I'm not stepping on any toes here). Anyway, I know a lot of Christians (and even a Muslim) that use Tarot. They see it as a way to receive God's will through an imperfect human interpreter. Hope that helps, DeLani

The Tarot and Christianity thread was originally posted on 20 Feb 2002 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.