How can I explain to them?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 11 Mar 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

silvereye	11 Mar 2002
The People are thinking that tarot is evil. I've been trying to explain to them that Tarot is just a pack of cards like any other poker deck and you won't get killed or get bad luck by using them. The people just don't seem to be able to understand this. They kept insisting that it's evil. Some even go as funny as saying they can raise tarot spirits. And that some tarot decks are dangerous to use because they've got symbolism in it like Vampire Tarot. I'm so frustrated talking to them. god.

New2Tarot	11 Mar 2002
Well, in my opinion, they aren't just a deck of cards "like any other poker deck". If that were the case, then the cards that appear in a reading would be meaningless and random appearances, that we all try to bend into perspective of a question. SOMETHING makes the tarot work. And it isn't just us tapping into our subconscious either. Something influences the fall of the cards. I think people have a right to be afraid of the tarot, because it does work, and there's more to it than just shuffling a deck and drawing randomly selected cards that have no rhyme or reason for appearing like poker. The tarot may not be evil, but it also isn't just a deck of cards. It's called the devil's bible for a reason.. it can be a scary thing. And people who say there are no good and bad cards are also naive.. of course there are good and bad cards. Bad cards that come to mind would be the 9 of Swords, or the Tower. Anyway, some people strongly believe that tampering with nature or using tools of divination to gain insight to the future or other influences is wrong. That's their right. Later, new2tarot

Kiama	11 Mar 2002
In my personal opinion, Silvereye, people like this will not change their minds. If they are as superstitious as to say that reading Tarot can summon spirits, then they will not listen to reason. Let them believe that superstitious carp. (If they put thier beliefs down to religion, then their idea of religion is very strange, either that, or their religion is a set of scared and fearful superstitions, not faith.) If these people are important to you, then instead of explaining to them, I think it would be best to lay low. Don't mention it to them again, dont let them see a deck. Hopefully, this won't provoke them. Out of all the people on these forums, I'd love to hear of just one who had summoned spirits when doing a Tarot reading. This is deck of 78 cardboard paintings. You really have to laugh at the man who is afraid of a cardbord picture, haven't you? Anyway, think that's all I can say! Kiama

faunabay	11 Mar 2002
I'm sorry New2tarot but I don't agree with you at all. I mean people do read with regular poker cards too!! So how can you say they're not like a poker deck? -- that they are more powerful or scary? Please don't misunderstand, I'm not trying to start an arguement with you I jsut don't agree. And think silvereye should get another opinion. I do think tarot, or anything else for that matter, just allows us to tap into universal knowledge. (or whatever you want to call it - God, etc) I mean you can do divination with sticks (Iching), stones (runes), cards (tarot), or really anything at all that speaks to you. So how does that make the tarot a scary thing???? I do agree with you that there are scary cards in the deck. I mean the 10 of swords is not exactly a happy card is it? LOL But that's life! There are good and bad things that happen. So a good deck will reflect true life IMO.

Jewel	11 Mar 2002
New2Tarot, like Faunabay I also must disagree with you. Cartomancy (sp?), reading with playing cards, has been around for a long time, tarot cards, and oracle cards may have different images and different themes, but cards are cards. That does not mean they are not special to each of us, but the fact remains that they are card board. What I have found since I began studying Tarot is that I have learned to focus and concentrate on details with greater ease. I have also learned meditative skills which help me to broaden my perspectives and see things in the cards more clearly. All of these being trained behaviors and mind expansion techniques which anyone, into Tarot or not can (and do) use. As for the cards falling in a particular pattern I believe Jungs theory of synchronicity addresses that well. The Tarot as the "Devil's Bible" ... let me take a wild guess that it was (perhaps still is) called this by Christian Churches. So when you say it was not called that for nothing ... I must say yes it was, it was called that to scare people, to get them to conform to the norms and rules they ascribe to, all for the purpose of religion, nothing more. People fear what they do not understand. For the good and bad cards, I am one those poeple you have classified as "naive". Having gained an understanding of the tarot cards that I once found "scary" I began to understand and to look at them as challenges and opportunities instead of as scary cards. It also depends on what deck you are using whether the cards are scary or not. There are many posts in this forum that speak of decks that are too gentle and have no negative cards. To me, negative and scary are two different things. I do agree with you that everyone is entitled to their opinion and to be scared if they want to. I tell you though, what does scare me is the poeple who try to use magic and potentially the Tarot for evil. In my opinion it is the poeple that have the potential to be evil ... not the cards. New2Tarot, please know that I am not trying to start an argument, I just wanted to express my opnion just like you have. Although I do not agree with your statements, I do respect them as yours. Love & Light,

Diana	11 Mar 2002
edited

Jewel	11 Mar 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Diana (Of course, you could also add fuel to the fire by telling them that if they don't stop their nonsense, you will invoke all the Tarot demons and curse them with the seven plagues of Egypt and other plagues they don't know about, but I don't think they will get the joke. So maybe you shouldn't! :) :) ) As to their being "bad cards" and "good cards", I think that's absolute nonsense. "Nothing is good or bad but thinking makes it so" (I think that's from Shakespeare). That Tower can be a blessing in disguise If you need to discuss Tarot, do it with people who understand it, like on these forums. Take care *ROFLMAO* Diana that was priceless ~wipes laughter tears from eyes and holds sides~ I agree totally with what Diana has said about good and bad cards and whom to talk tarot to.

Liliana	11 Mar 2002
If these people are Christians, take out a standard rider waite deck and go through pointing out all the Christian symbolism. Off the top of my head are the priestess pillars (from Solomons temple), her tora scroll(what jewish people call the first 5 books ofthe bible) the lovers are adam and eve, the hierophant is the pope, the devil is a christian icon whether they like it or not, judgement is out of the bible, Ace of cups shows the Holy Spirit descending onto communion (just noticed that while searching in depth for info on the Ace of cupsfor my FACT card) various angels abound on the deck, thats just off the top of my head :)

silvereye	11 Mar 2002
New2Tarot, I'm sorry that I offended you , I didn't mean to. Poker cards can be used for divination as well, it is called cartomancy. And there are many other things that can be used for divination, like the coins for I Ching, the RUnes, etc. Basically even Bible can be used for divination. It is a matter of synchronicity. The person that argued with me claimed that Tarot is evil that it got evil powers. Since tarot is evil, then that means other things that are used for divination are supposed to be evil as well? God, some one do readings on tea leafs, now guys, mind you when you drink tea! To All, well I feel much better now. Actually that person even go as far as insulting me that I must be stupid and not being capable to perform accurate readings because I don't believe that Tarot has spirits and is evil. Then he/ she began saying that I must be a loser as well, because I didn't have the same belief with him/her and basically we haven't even met..... So I guess I shouldn't mind the words of one person as low as that? I'm just curious how many of you have been condemned the same way? Like telling you tarot is evil, it evokes spirits and stuff? I mean, he said the new deck Vampire Tarot is evil. OK, if you said it's an old deck, it's possible that it gets "dirty" from previous experience. Now saying that the deck have evil symbolism is simply silly. does it mean that the painter, Natalie Hertz , intentionally put something evil into the deck and let US Games distribute it? I will not be so surprised if some say Thoth Tarot is evil, ( I don't think it is, but at least it's more logical) but Vampire Tarot......arggg.....SH*T, then Gothic Tarot, Witches Tarot, Enochian Tarot must all be devil's stuff. Those who want to buy Celtic Dragon and Dragon Tarot must be aware, the dragons are creepin' out!!!LOL And do you believe Gandaff will come out from Lord OF The RIngs Tarot? (I think it would be exciting )

Mojo	11 Mar 2002
Sometimes these forums amaze me. One person makes a mis-statement and people parrot it like it was gospel. cartomancy \Car"to*man`cy\, n. [cf. f. cartomancie. see card, and -mancy.] The art of telling fortunes with cards. Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 Tarot = cartomancy Reading with playing cards = cartomancy Get it? Got it? Good. Now, does anybody know if there's a hyphen in anal-retentive?

faunabay	11 Mar 2002
mojo, WHAT??? Did I miss something?

truthsayer	11 Mar 2002
silvereye, my suggestion is something that jesus said tho i can't give you an exact quote--don't throw your pearls before swine. being ignorant is a choice. being intolerant of those different than you is a choice. imho, if jesus were to come back as so many born agains believe, i don't think he would be very happy w/ how his words have been misinterpreted and used to harm others. didn't he also say--love one another? what about--judge not lest ye be judged? i wouldn't talk about it to these ppl but if they bring it up decline to be drawn into an argument. a quote like the above are also good shut uppers. you have a right to your beliefs and they have a right to theirs. if they can't respect that then you don't need to be around them any more than required. it's simply too toxic to your spirit to be around ppl who are like that. i know from painful personal experience.

Geenius at Wrok	11 Mar 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Mojo Now, does anybody know if there's a hyphen in anal-retentive? I get asked that question a lot, and the answer is yes, there is.

DeLani	12 Mar 2002
As an editor, I can tell you that anal retentive only has a hyphen when it is used as a modifier, as in: "His anal-retentive personality..." If it is used as a noun phrase, it doesn't, as in: "That statement is anal retentive." At least that is the way it is in U.S. Associated Press style. Now who's anal retentive? :P As for the original thread subject, I had to deal with that same sort of ignorance when I was in Jr. High School. Many fundamentalist religions essentially brainwash their believers into thinking that anything not strictly allowed by their religious authority is evil. Especially anything that might open your mind, or get you in touch with your inner power, because that would undermine their "spiritual" authority. Those who have been brainwashed in this manner will not listen to logic, as they see even logic as the work of the devil. Best to get away from them - as it was said, it is too toxic to deal with that kind of stuff. The cards are just cardboard, and runes are just rocks, and the I Ching is just a bunch of sticks. It is the inner power that these and other tools unlock that is "scary" to anyone who has been trained to believe that any power other than church power is evil. Good luck. DeLani

Thirteen	12 Mar 2002
Quote: Originally posted by DeLani As an editor, I can tell you that anal retentive only has a hyphen when it is used as a modifier, as in: "His anal-retentive personality..." If it is used as a noun phrase, it doesn't, as in: "That statement is anal retentive." At least that is the way it is in U.S. Associated Press style. Now who's anal retentive? :P Bit off-topic but what do you edit? I, personally, have nothing but the highest respect for editors (maybe because my spelling is so embarrassingly bad). They're some of the smartest, most underappreciated folk I know--and it's their anal-retentive personality that can make something you read work or fail :)

MeeWah	12 Mar 2002
Silvereye: Truthsayer beat me to it: Cast not thy pearls before swine! Also: Silence is golden. There are times when it is wiser to conserve one's energy & let the detractors be. There will always be those for whom there is no reasoning to be had. If one would see evil, one will--mind is the builder. In its own way, ignorance can be as powerful & dangerous as mis-used knowledge! Tarot decks express the particular vision & views of their creators. They are pictures on paper. The cards by themselves are neutral. They gain meanings within the context of a throw or by how they are used. It can be said that the only power they have is that which one would give them, as with anything. They are tools that can provide a link to the inner realm of consciousness as can any tool for guidance & understanding, no matter the method. They are not "evil" personified, not "magick" per se.

Lion-O	14 Mar 2002
Quote: Originally posted by silvereye well I feel much better now. Actually that person even go as far as insulting me that I must be stupid and not being capable to perform accurate readings because I don't believe that Tarot has spirits and is evil. [/b] Hi silvereye, Although most things have been said I'd like to throw in my 0.02 cents as well ;-) First of all I think its very important that you should not care that much for other people's opinion or be influenced by it, esp. when you know that they could very well be wrong. As for Tarot cards being evil; this may sound silly but I think the person you talked to is or could be right to some extend. After all; doing a reading and gaining knowledge is one thing, knowing how to deal with the newly gained knowledge is another. IMO Tarot cards could very well be seen as evil in the eyes of people who simply can't or won't deal with the signals they received from the cards (if any at all). I'm convinced that you could do (serious) damage to someone's state of mind if he, or she, isn't able to interpretate the signals correctly by handing them certain cards from the major arcana (I'm sure you know what kind of cards I'm referring to). I fully agree with most people's opinion that Tarot cards don't hold special powers and won't provoke evil spirits (at least not by themselves :-)). However; I do think its unwise to treat a Tarot deck like a toy. Even when you are simply protecting the person playing with them from him/her -self. Although I never met the person you wrote about I get a feeling that he fits right into the category of people I mentioned above. After all; "Calling each other names starts where common sense ends". Its a literal translation but I think it gets the message across anyway.

DeLani	15 Mar 2002
Bit off-topic but what do you edit? Answer: Everything I read. Seriously. It's my Capricorn nature. But I was an assistant editor for a little underground free paper for a couple of years, plus tons of copy editing for just about every job I've ever had since high school (going on a lot of years now...) Thanks for the support! We anal types are so unfairly treated... DeLani

Jewel	15 Mar 2002
Quote: Originally posted by DeLani Bit off-topic but what do you edit? Answer: Everything I read. Seriously. It's my Capricorn nature. But I was an assistant editor for a little underground free paper for a couple of years, plus tons of copy editing for just about every job I've ever had since high school (going on a lot of years now...) Thanks for the support! We anal types are so unfairly treated... DeLani Well not in this forum my dear! We are much appreciative of you. Perhaps because many of us dream of writting a book someday and hope when the time comes we can find a good editor! ;)

Original Destiny	15 Mar 2002
silvereye...why bother explaining...it's not your problem!! I never try to explain or defend...

Kimon	16 Mar 2002
Hello, since the very beginning of civilization there has been a constant struggle against supersticion. And it never was won. I do explain many times, but I do not discuss any more. Everyone has the right to get information, but unfortunately no one has the duty to think by his own. Greetings, Kimon

wigwag	16 Mar 2002
Hi silvereye, I have the same problem with my boss at work who is terrified of the tarot and has banned me bringing the cards. (I do readings in my break sometimes) I have tried to explain that tarot just reflects your inner thoughts and that is all. You can use anything to the same effect. Hanging a ring on a peice of string. Playing cards, sticks, coins and none of these are frightening. I think there are two things at play here. One is the pictures such as death and devil. (I take the connolly pack out with me now as that has no scary pictures) which are scary if you dont understand that they dont mean what they depict. The other is that you appear to be doing something that others cannot. (which we know is not the case but some people dont want to be involved due to ignorance) I would say however that I have been a more Godly or Spiritual (i think that is the best word) person since starting tarot a year ago. It has put me in touch with my higher self and as a result I respect all of life much more and feel i have only benefitted. I allow myself the knowledge that I wont change my bosses mind but i know myself that I am not evil or dabbling with devils and I think I am more likely to be dabbling with angels as I like to imagine myself surrounded by bright light. Not darkness. Dont use your cards in the vicinity of these people. They probably will never understand. Or offer to read for them so that they can see there is no evil only good advice. (but do this only if your sure you wont be ridiculed). I have done this with some non believers who although they still dont believe. They say it is like having their sole massaged and they feel relaxed and happy afterwards. I am sure non of us on this forum are evil or bad and just bear this in mind. We are all behind you.

sarahenglish	18 Mar 2002
As someone who has struggled with this issue personally, I had to weigh in on this issue. I had a fundamentalist Christian education and was taught that the devil was waiting around every corner to trip me up and that nothing would please him more than to see me with a tarot deck, a quidji (sp) board, an apple core necklace (which of course represents the forbidden fruit, lol) or a peace sign (didn't you know it's a broken, upside down cross, lol.) I would have literally been suspended or maybe even expelled if I had taken a tarot deck to school. I now know that fear is a very strong tool and that anything can be given negative connotations if you try hard enough. I will say that I don't like the decks that have what I think are scary devilish figures on them, I prefer bright colors and beautiful images. But, just like my attitude toward tarot, my attitude toward tarot decks may change as my knowledge increases and the last shreds of fear are discarded. SarahEnglish

catboxer	26 Mar 2002
I have a couple of friends who tell me I'm playing with fire by dealing with tarot. One of them believes I'm exposing myself to the influence of demons. I tell them they're giving too much credit to people who make preposterous claims, and that occultists generally are not to be credited with possessing the powers to which they say they have access. Also, Christians have a history of regarding the gods of competing religions as devils, and sometimes see the images on the cards as deities which they mistakenly believe are worshiped by tarot enthusiasts. There are a lot of long, torturous blind alleys connected with tarot, and people who fear our pack of cards, having not travelled them, give them more credibility than they deserve. Having a superficial acquaintance with one or another of the numerous bizzarre, occult systems which they are told is based on "secret knowledge" that has been "passed down" from one "initiate" to another "over the centuries," and that it takes "years of study" to "even begin" to understand the "deeper meanings" of the cards, Christians, or even those who are merely superstitious, understandably react with fear. The best cure is knowledge, and enough knowledge can be gained in the space of an afternoon by reading a good, historically accurate, introductory book like the one by Rachel Pollack. Dave B

The How can I explain to them? thread was originally posted on 11 Mar 2002 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.