"Tarot Revelations" by Richard Roberts

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 09 Mar 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Ophiel	09 Mar 2002
I have a question about some material in the book, "Tarot Revelations" by Joseph Campbell and Richard Roberts My question is about the Roberts section of the book, the esoteric tarot. Roberts is describing in chapter two, the Stairway of the Planets, corresponding the tarot to this spiritual process. Roberts asserts that Mercury is assigned to THE MAGICIAN, Jupiter to THE WHEEL OF FORTUNE, and Saturn to THE DEVIL. Actually, he assigns cards 13 (DEATH), 14 (TEMPERANCE) and 15 (THE DEVIL) to Saturn. And of course, THE SUN and MOON are starring themselves. That leaves two of the ancient seven planets (seven metals, seven steps) and he has selected THE LOVERS for Venus and THE CHARIOT for Mars. Roberts uses the Waite deck for his discussion and even though the figure in THE CHARIOT includes strong Moon/Cancer symbologies, he references the war-like qualities of the card, the chariot and uniform, to make a connection here to Mars. Traditional assignment for these cards are a bit different. THE MAGICIAN is assigned to Mercury, THE WHEEL to Jupiter, and THE DEVIL to Saturn. THE LOVERS is assigned to Gemini (Mercury) and THE CHARIOT to Cancer (the Moon.) DEATH is assigned to Scorpio (Mars) and TEMPERANCE to Sagittarius (Jupiter.) I realize that even though he does not state this, that Roberts may be referring to older assignments for the cards (and I wished he has stated this!) Where this is all going is he takes the Majors, minus THE FOOL, and assigns each group of three to a different planetary step. 1-3 to Mercury (quicksilver), 4-6 to Venus (copper), 7-9 to Mars (iron), 10-12 to Jupiter (tin), 13-15 to Saturn (lead), 16-18 to the Moon (silver) and 19-21 to the Sun (gold.) He does this because based on his earlier assignments of the planets, that planetary assignment was included in the trio of cards assigned to the planetary step. Any esotericists in the group? It would be particularly useful to me if you are familiar with the Campbell/Roberts book in question because I am posting this mostly so I can understand where Roberts is coming from, thus making it possible for me to more fully comprehend the rest of the book. If you've read this book and understand these assignments, if you can aid me I would be internally greatful! Thanks. Ophiel

Kiama	09 Mar 2002
Is the Joseph Cambell you refer to the same famous mythologist who wrote 'Masks of God'? Kiama

Ophiel	09 Mar 2002
Yes, the one and only man of the myth. This book was written as a dual effort between these two, with Campbell taking on the exoteric Marseilles deck symbolism, and Richard Roberts doing the esoteric stuff. The Campbell section is generally not regarded as his 'best' work. In fact, some reviews I had read of this said it was pretty lame for him. However, the Roberts section is fascinating and involved. This book was listed as in print by Amazon.com.

jmd	10 Mar 2002
I just cannot find my copy of Campbell's and Roberts's book, and it has been many years since I read it... and I'm glad to hear it's back in print. As mentioned, the section by Campbell is quite 'poor'. Given the vast and thoughtful contributions Campbell has made to mythological-type thinking, this is regretful for those of us who may have greatly benefitted from his comments, had he decided to really take the time to write some of his insights, rather than what appears to be merely superficial descriptions. If I recall, the whole project was at Roberts's instigation, and Campbell may have written it to meet an agreed deadline, rather than taking the time such an undertaking needs. Roberts's section (which, if I recall, constitutes about two-thirds of the book), though considered very good by others, I personally did not value as highly. I do not recall what he had to say specifically about the planetary associations, so I'll take my cue from the above posts. Ophiel states that Quote: Traditional assignment for these cards are a bit different. THE MAGICIAN is assigned to Mercury, THE WHEEL to Jupiter, and THE DEVIL to Saturn. THE LOVERS is assigned to Gemini (Mercury) and THE CHARIOT to Cancer (the Moon.) DEATH is assigned to Scorpio (Mars) and TEMPERANCE to Sagittarius (Jupiter.) This is only part of the story. These associations are the ones made by the Golden Dawn, and hence its derivatives. Many other associations are 'traditionally' made. As an example (and only as one example), Mouni Sadhu places the following cards with each of the seven traditional planets (and I use the word 'planet' also for the Sun and Moon, as I am using the term not in its astronomical sense, but in its traditional and etymologically correct sense of 'meanderer': the heavenly body with apparent motion against the 'fixed' background stars): Moon - II High Priestess Mercury - XVII Star Venus - III Empress Sun - XXI the World (which he numbers XXII) Mars - XI Strength Jupiter - IIII Emperor Saturn - XX Judgement As an aside, he links XVIIII the Sun with Pisces, and XVIII the Moon with Aquarius, definitely not-to-be-expected associations... . Often (but not always!!!), correlations made tend to follow the letters of the Hebrew alphabet. Of the twenty-two letters, three are called Mother letters, corresponding to the elements of Air, Water and Fire; twelve are single or simple letters, corresponding to the twelve signs of the Zodiac; and seven are doubles (because they each have a fricative and a plosive sound... eg Beth as fricative makes the sound 'vvv', as a plosive 'B'). Depending on where one starts the tarot sequence (the Fool or the Magician), the letters will correspond to different cards. Though authors who generally follow the Kabbalistic associations tend to follow the zodiacal and mother-letter correspondences, when it comes to the doubles, numerous variations arise (is the Moon with Beth... or Tav). Other authors do not follow these 'standardised' Kabbalistic correlations at all. Some rather try to make independent astrological correlations, with no Kabbalistic overtones. As I said earlier, I cannot remember what Roberts wrote, and thus cannot even say whether what I have written helps in answering your question. To my mind, the Kabbalah, Astrology and Tarot would be better off each studied on their own immense independent merits... and where their paths cross, added insights can be had... without assuming that there is a one-to-one correlation which must exist. If I find my copy of the book, I'll look it up and check if I can add to this thread.

Ophiel	10 Mar 2002
How odd...Even though we all know what happens when one "assumes," I did make a few assumptions regarding Roberts' treatment of the Waite deck. I have been unable to find any section in the book where he lays out his basis for correspondences, but since the book is about the esoteric nature of specifically the Waite deck, and since Waite was an instrumental member of the Golden Dawn, I thought, no ASSUMED, that Roberts would treat the cards in the same manner that the esoteric mind behind the designs would, and that he would treat them as Golden Dawn property, at least as far as the correspondences go. Just two weeks ago, I secured a copy of the Sadhu Tarot book, a bit of a shabby copy at that, but haven't had the chance yet to read it. My own copy of the Campbell/Roberts book is rather old and I only reported it in print because AmazonDotCom said it was, third printing at that. I am quite familiar with the GD correspondences and you need not 'refresh' me on that. However, if you are posting that information for others less informed on the group, that is fine. Maybe some day this group will have a category for the esoteric aspects of the cards? Can you use your moderator powers and poof that into existence?

truthsayer	10 Mar 2002
does anyone know when joseph campbell contributed to this book? i thought i was aware of all joseph campbell's works. guess not! what year did the book originally come out? while it's regretful that campbell didn't appear to take the book seriously, i'm not surprized. he seemed to be the kind of person who was really only interested in mythology and prob didn't totally see the connection b/t his work and tarot. i would like to get a copy of the book and see for myself.

Ophiel	10 Mar 2002
Don't believe me, huh? LOL. I have the second edition, 1982. It came out in 1979. Just search for it on amazon and you will see. "Tarot Revelations"

The "Tarot Revelations" by Richard Roberts thread was originally posted on 09 Mar 2002 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.