court cards

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 13 Apr 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

lili	13 Apr 2002
In my radings I considered myself as the queen of pentacles but sometimes in the same reading the queen of swords comes up, is it possible that I could be representing both.

Tarotbear 2	13 Apr 2002
It is possible that you can be both, simulataneously. You may most times be one, but have flashes of the other depending on the circumstances you find yourself in. Although you may feel one card 'signifies' you, that card can also change as time goes by.

blumoon	14 Apr 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Tarotbear 2 It is possible that you can be both, simulataneously. as tarotbear 2 said you could have qualities of both queens, eg you could be a witty down to earth person ;)

Jenny-Li	14 Apr 2002
In my opinion we carry around characteristics of most of the court cards all the time - but which one is most apparen or strong at the moment varies. Usually we have one or two that feels more like the "usual self", but that doesn't mean the other characteristics aren't "in there" as well. In certain situations I'm sure the Queen of Swords in you will surface to deal with the situation around you, or maybe the cards are telling you you should tap into this part of yourself for this case. If we were all just one person at all times, then we would always react the same way to things, and our ability to develop would be much more limited. My personal opinion is that being all these characteristics at the same time, that's what makes us ALL so special (read the Crack pot-thread on the Chat-board, that's sort of how i mean!), and therein lies our ability to change and grow along with what goes on around us! I hope this makes sense - if it doesn't, just ask again! With light, Jenny :)

meatbox666	15 Apr 2002
Wow, Everyone is so good with their answers. you may be the queen of pentacles...but..are you trying to make a decision about something?..............(Queen of swords) This response is probably what everyone previously said early on..... My opinion:Swords.Queens over 35 and Libra, Aquarius and Gem Pentacles Queen over 35 ....Cap, Virgo, Taurus Wands Queen....Over 35 Leo.....Sagg....Aries Cups Queen Over 35.......Cancer, Scorp.....Pisces Now,(this is my way) Like Use your significator, your sunsign as a foundation, soooo, If queen of swords is falling in your suit somewhere,Your very nice earthy self willprobably get into an argument with someone(depending on the position of card)If you are stressing ove r your appearance..then You might be getting gray hair and have to Lose weight(I think Swords represent really thin pale people with Dark brown hair the Queens and Kings Salt and pepper(gray or graying black hair)...or better yet Go get a tan....If the question is revolving around your looks...........or, if you are worried about a phone call/letter...man,you will getnegleted and have to remind the person you exist and be very nasty about it.......................but uh...............I need mor details..........

Umbrae	15 Apr 2002
The Queens are very different. I do not feel YOU can be both in the same reading at the same time. Sometimes (and most of the time), court cards represent people. Sometimes, they represent actions regardless of gender. So now, the real question comes into play…how to tell the difference. ‘Oft times the spread will clue you in. Some spreads are very people specific. Some are event specific. Had a reading the other day were the sitter was asking about relationships. Most of the reading came back pointing towards her job. (It is important to know the difference. In her case, the relationship is overshadowed by occurrences at her job). Here is a real key I tend to harp on a bit. Card meanings. We can get so hung up on book learned meanings, and spend so much time trying to ‘figure out’ what it means, we lose focus on what the inner-self is telling us. If we can stop thinking and start listening, when the card flips we are told (person or action), but fail to hear because ego tries to keep us ‘clever’ and correct. We lose so much of our lives by not listening to the right things. Oops, I’m pontificating again, sorry. No, that was a cut and paste from another post...so much for me being clever...

Minderwiz	19 Apr 2002
Hi, I also feel that you cannot be symbolised by both cards in the same reading - though you certainly can between readings. However as has been pointed out above, the Queens do not just represent people. One of the Queens may well represent the circumstances you find yourself in, A characteristic that you need to develop or a mindset that you need to either adopt or reject. As the above post rightly points out it's important to look at the shape and feel of the spread rather than just deal with the individual card meanings. Look for a message from the spread as a whole. Blessings Minderwiz

Sorceress_Jade	19 Apr 2002
Do you suppose your card may change depending on which deck you go by? I know what my card is by Thoth, but have never looked into it with another deck.

Minderwiz	20 Apr 2002
Hi, In principle, the symbolic meanings of the cards should be roughly the same, so in that sense the answer is that it shouldn't make a difference which deck you use. However there are nuances in the symbolism - for example the King of Cups in the Waite decks is more clearly linked to Pisces, through the pendant he wears - in the Mythic Tarot there is the tail of a fish above the water but the link to the person has to be inferred. Also the art work is important - if you don't like the artwork for your card on the alternative deck then I think its a good idea to change to a card you feel more comfortable with (though this may mean changing back to your original deck!) In other words its what symbolises you to yourself that is important not what the books say or logic and reason says. Go with your feelings Blessings Minderwiz

Zhritza	21 Apr 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Minderwiz In principle, the symbolic meanings of the cards should be roughly the same, so in that sense the answer is that it shouldn't make a difference which deck you use. [...] However there are nuances in the symbolism There's also the occasional deck that assigns the element of air to Wands, and the element of fire to Swords. :confused: :mad: I've come across at least one of those.

Jenny-Li	21 Apr 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Qolus There's also the occasional deck that assigns the element of air to Wands, and the element of fire to Swords. :confused: :mad: /.../ Yes, I've read about decks like that, thankfully I've never ended up buying one, I think I'd be completely confused... :) But does that mean they change the cards' meanings accordingly, or are the sword cards (for example) still referring to issues of the mind, communication, speech, thoughts etc - and the wands to energy, ambition, desire, drive etc? To me Wands as Fire and Swords as Air is so natural, it feels logical, it's what has helped me understand the cards' traditional meanings... Anyone who prefers to read this way who can explain it a bit? (Sorry I can't remember what deck refers to the elements this way...) Light and love, Jenny :)

Zhritza	21 Apr 2002
as I remember it, the wands were indeed assigned intellect, decision-making etc., and swords were about creativity and drive... Sucky, eh?

Jenny-Li	21 Apr 2002
Do you remember what deck it was? Or what decks, maybe...? Sucky or not, I thing I do best to try and stay away from those decks, at least till I'm completely secure about the "normal" way of interpretation. If I ever will... ;) Jenny :)

Minderwiz	21 Apr 2002
Hi, Yes that's true and you're right to say that it should be taken into account. I work on the association that Wands = energy and activities Cups = emotions and feelings Swords = ideas and worries Pentacles = material things. The association with Fire, Water, Air and Earth respectively is based on perceived affinities and any perceived affinity obviously depends in part on the person whose perception it is. If someone feels that the affinities of Fire and Air are reversed then that will work for them in their readings. I would have thought though that they would keep those affinities when changing decks. I would keep to my affinities, even if the deck was based on a different perception - The meaning and symbolism of the card is not independent of the reader. If I found the artwork difficult to work with then I would change decks. Blessings Minderwiz

Zhritza	21 Apr 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Jenny-Li Do you remember what deck it was? Or what decks, maybe...? Sucky or not, I thing I do best to try and stay away from those decks, at least till I'm completely secure about the "normal" way of interpretation. If I ever will... ;) I've forgotten, maybe it was a used deck I was looking at and didn't get... I hope to steer clear of them too. I've got enough difficulty learning this stuff as it is. 8)

The court cards thread was originally posted on 13 Apr 2002 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.