Maslov pyramid

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 03 May 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Maan	03 May 2002
Hello All, Lately i'm studying tarot on an other level trying to create my own deck. And that's how i came to compare tarot with some psychology. So here is my idea: The minor arcana fits in the pyramid of Maslov basic needs safety , food etc. = Pentacles Need for love etc= cups and further What do you think?

Aerin	03 May 2002
Hmm. Never thought of that. I will think about it: I'm not sure that quite works for me, I usually think of it as pips = actions/ behaviours, courts = aspects of personality (which influence behaviours), trumps = archetypal forces. I then think of the different suits as expresssions of personality: pentacles for me can transcend basic material needs e.g. by representing craftmanship, practical abilities, resources in the widest sense. As Mary Greer says, the cards do tend to follow whatever system you intend for them, so it comes down to what you find useful. The psychological correspondence I'm most familiar with (and which I tend to use) is the Jungian/ Myers Briggs one i.e. Cups = Feelings (F) Swords = Thinking (T) Wands = Intuition (N) Pentacles = Sensing (S) Aerin (iNfP, usually)

truthsayer	03 May 2002
maan, great minds do think alike! if you look at the 9 of pentacles i did in the FACT deck, i based that card's interp on maslov's pyramid. i think doing a deck around maslov would be incredible! i really like how you associated certain needs w/ certain suites. let me know if you need any help. :)

truthsayer	03 May 2002
aerin, i like the jungian/myers briggs types, too. i probably use them more in everyday life than maslow. i believe that the voyager deck uses them but i'm not sure. btw, i'm an infp, too! :)

Mermaid	03 May 2002
The Myers Briggs thing has always confused me... as far as I understand it he assigned each 'personality type' four letters: I or E N or S T or F P or J How can you translate that into one card (like, if you have an ESFP type person, are they shown as a Pentacle (S) or a Cup (F)? And I'm assuming you're mainly doing this with court cards, but am I wrong? Confused Mermaid (INFP too! - perhaps we're naturally attracted to Tarot!)

Mermaid	03 May 2002
And how do you go about relating this stuff to star signs? For example, I'm a Taurean INFP - and I normally identify much more with the Princess of Pentacles than with either a Wand (N) or a Cup (F)! But when I did the Myers Briggs test I was VERY N, not at all S like a Pentacle person would be. Questions, questions - sorry guys Mermaid

truthsayer	03 May 2002
mermaid, i have a piece written by mary k. greer that relates certain cards to certain personality types from the myers-briggs. i'll try to find it and post it here. i believe she only uses court cards. i think infp is the knight of cups. as far as star signs and the myers-briggs, i keep it simple and don't even go there! i know i'd be confused if i tried to link the myers-briggs and astrology. i'm a piscean infp. i suppose that you have to keep in mind that both are generalities to a certain extent. no one is going to match his or her star sign or personality type exactly. there always has to be room for individual differences.

Aerin	04 May 2002
Oh that's interesting, different ways of doing this. The correspondence I use (can't remember where I first came accross it) doesn't use the e/i or the j/p lines at all. When you do a Myers Briggs test, then you actually get a score for each bit i.e. most people have a bit of everything. Your final 'type' is calculated from the difference between the scores. Also, the test is a self report test about how you prefer to do stuff, it doesn't mean you don't operate in more than one way. Here's a cut down web based version http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes2.asp. This site has lots of stuff too http://www.keirsey.com/. So the way I think of it, Swords tend to be about rational thinking (as is T), Wands big picture, ideas type stuff (N), Cups emotions and feelings (F), and Pentacles to do with the outside world (S). So I just think of e.g. the Queen of Cups as the aspect of me which is concerned with feelings and empathy and etc, cups which come up are to do with what I am actually doing/ situations to do with feelings etc. I may be more like one court card than another but I don't fully identify with any: I am a combination. There is also a way of working out your 'strongest' function and your 'weakest' or shadow function. Other people do assign the suits in different ways. Anyway, better go, hubbie is calling for tea .... Aerin

Kaz	04 May 2002
aerin, thanks for posting these links, this was very interesting material. i found out i qualify as INTJ, and reading the descriptions they give about this, it suits me quite well. kaz

Maan	04 May 2002
Hello Truthsayer, I love your nine of pentacles!! It absolutley discibes that aspect of the maslov pyramid perfect! I love to find new ways of looking at the cards and the myers briggs looks realy interisting too! Thanks Aerin!

Diana	04 May 2002
edited

Geenius at Wrok	04 May 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Mermaid And how do you go about relating this stuff to star signs? For example, I'm a Taurean INFP - and I normally identify much more with the Princess of Pentacles than with either a Wand (N) or a Cup (F)! But when I did the Myers Briggs test I was VERY N, not at all S like a Pentacle person would be. Forgive the heresy, but this just reemphasizes the silliness of trying to define your personality by the 30-day window you happen to have been born in. As for Myers-Briggs and tarot, Mary K. Greer has her opinion, and I have my opinion of Mary K. Greer. I favor this arrangement: Wands - ST Pentacles - SF Cups - NF Swords - NT Pages - I..P Knights - E..J Queens - I..J Kings - E..P So an INFP would be the Page of Cups, an ENFP would be the King of Cups, an ISFJ would be the Queen of Pentacles, etc.

Maan	04 May 2002
Hi Diana Wel i'm sorry its not cuddly and it isnt fluffy either LOL :) Its a diagram of the hierarchy of human needs created by Abraham Maslov. From bootom to the top. 1 Physical needs ( food, health, water etc) 2 Safety needs ( shelter, protection from danger etc.) 3 Social needs ( belong, friendship, love etc.) 4 Egoistic needs ( self esteem, status among peers etc.) 5 Self Fulfillment ( realizing and enyoing one's own potential) At school we where practically drawned with his pyramid so it's in my system ;)

MattDouglas	04 May 2002
Well, it seems we have many INFPs here, and I'm one too. My suspicion is that 90% of tarot reader are either INFP or INFJ, which make up very minute segments of the population. Myers-Briggs is my second favorite typing system. My favorite is Enneagram is anyone has heard of it. For the record I'm a 4w5. I wonder if we'll also see similar Enneagram types here at this forum. All feedback welcome, Matt

Kaz	04 May 2002
matt, what is enneagram? can you give a link to a site where you can find what you are etc? kaz

jmd	04 May 2002
The thread Choosing a Significator? also mentions the MBTI (Myers-Briggs)... I thought I'd give the link for those interested. With regards to the Enneagram, it is worth keeping in mind that there are two popular 'traditions': the one arising from Gurdieff, and the one made known especially through D.R. Riso's Personality Types: Using the Enneagram for Self-Discovery, Boston 1987 (there are quite a few books available which are, in my opinion, very good in the subject, and those by Palmer, Rohr and Myers, in addition to Riso's, I would recommend). In my opinion, the Enneagram is quite useful in deepening one's understanding of the human being, and hence our own developed use of the Tarot.

Zhritza	05 May 2002
Does anyone have a link for an online Meyers-Briggs? I was an INFP when I took the test in eighth grade, but I'm thinking it may have changed by now...

Geenius at Wrok	05 May 2002
Quote: Originally posted by MattDouglas Myers-Briggs is my second favorite typing system. My favorite is Enneagram is anyone has heard of it. For the record I'm a 4w5. I wonder if we'll also see similar Enneagram types here at this forum. "Similar"? I think you may find one or two people here who aren't 4w5's. (Starting with me—1w9.) Riso's books rock, but for the love of God, steer clear of Helen Palmer. She's utterly clueless. I don't know of any reliable online enneagram test, other than the one on Riso's own site, which you have to pay 10 bucks to take. For 10 bucks, you might as well just get his book "Discovering Your Personality Type" and share it with your friends.

Kaz	06 May 2002
here: http://www.humanmetrics.com/index.htm#intro click on jung typology test link in the left frame. kaz (still wondering about eneagrams, i will look it up)

napaisti	06 May 2002
Kaz: glad to see I'm not the only J in town. I was beginning to feel left out when I saw all the INFPs. Of course, I still lend credence to MattDouglas' hypothesis. I'm an INFJ (REALLY strong I, fairly strong J, and N that on a different day could easily come up S). It's been a while since I looked at my personality using Enneagram; I'll report back when I'v refreshed my memory. napaisti

Kaz	06 May 2002
napaisti, what came out of the score was this for me: INTJ Introverted Intuitive Thinking Judging Strength of the preferences % 44 44 33 22 this doesnt say alot to me, but when i read the description about it, yes, it's definetly me, no doubt about it. can you rcommend a good site anout those enneagrams? kaz

Geenius at Wrok	06 May 2002
No site is as good as the book "Personality Types: Using the Enneagram for Self-Discovery" by Don Richard Riso. Start there. It's available on Amazon.de [[url=http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/0395798671/qid=1020703536/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_0_2/028-9397892-4195721]link[/url]].

Kaz	06 May 2002
thanks geenius, i'll check this book out . kaz

Butterfly	06 May 2002
Wow, can't believe that I missed this whole thread. At uni, and in my first job out of uni we lived and breathed Abraham Maslows hierarchy of self-actualisation. It's a really interesting idea to link it to the tarot in terms of major and minor arcana, but not an idea that I would agree with. To me, the pyramid has always talked about our needs. As we become more actualised (personally evolved) our needs become higher. Very few people have ever reached the higher levels of the pyramid (Jung, Ghandi and people of that magnitude). But to try and explain why I disagree. I don't believe that you can seperate the arcana as independent entities, as you would have to apply it to the pyramid. People are certainly experiencing things alluded to in the minor arcana at every moment, just as they are also experiencing the major arcana. I see the minor arcana as the daily mundane expression of lessons being learnt in the major arcana. They go hand in hand, and are inseperable. According to Maslow's hierarchy, we are unable to concentrate on the higher levels, when our needs are more concerned with the lower level needs, such as food and money.

napaisti	06 May 2002
Now I know why I couldn't remember where I fit on the enneagram. I have a hard time separating myself enough to figure it out. I'm most likely a 5 with a 4-wing, or a 4 with a 5-wing. But there I usually end up being torn between 3-4 different types. Have to admit that this is odd for me. I am usually pretty aware of myself and am usually able to type myself fairly well, but the enneagram is a real stumbling block for me. Maybe I'll have a friend take a look and see what she thinks. napaisti I used Riso's "Personality Types" and found it to be a really good read even if I have trouble using it for myself.

Maan	07 May 2002
He Butterfly Great point you have there. I will think some more about it and get back when i have some more time and a dictionary next to me ;)

The Maslov pyramid thread was originally posted on 03 May 2002 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.