Tarot Spells: can I do this?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 16 May 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

aeonx	16 May 2002
Greetings all. I received the book Tarot Spells by Janina Renee yesterday. :) (Thank you Jema!) There are obviously spells for everything! :D However, I noticed -of course- the love spells, and especially one of the two: How to win the love of a specific person? Well, it sounds interesting, but I don't know if I dare. I've asked about this once before, in the Spells-thread. And we discussed the possibility that one would never really know where the feelings came from... him or the spell? Anyway, I'll have to ask the same question again: Can I do this? What are your opinions? Why is this spell in the book if it's not 'legal'? Blessings, ~aeonx~

Liliana	16 May 2002
You CAN but you SHOULDN'T. Breaking anothers free will with spell work is likely to cause some asty karma. :THP

aeonx	16 May 2002
:( I know... ugh. I'll try the general love-spell then. I just needed to hear that I SHOULDN'T. What do you think of this book, you who have it? ~aeonx~

catlin	16 May 2002
I LOVE IT!!! Remember, I got my job + new clients after performing one spell and a friend of mine got her paintings exhibitioned after I did this spell for her. I do not regret one single cent I spent on this book.

aeonx	16 May 2002
Wow, that sounds great yes. :) I'll try one and keep you posted on the result. :D

Jenny-Li	16 May 2002
Quote: Originally posted by catlin I LOVE IT!!! Remember, I got my job + new clients after performing one spell and a friend of mine got her paintings exhibitioned after I did this spell for her. I do not regret one single cent I spent on this book. Wow... Sounds like one book I will have to lay my hands on, FAST!! ;) :D ;) A "New-job-spell" couldn't cause bad karma, could it? :confused: Thanks for the tip, folks! Light and love, Jenny :)

aeonx	16 May 2002
Jenny-Li: if you want, I can send you the 'recipe' through e-mail some time next week. Then you have the chance to try it out, and tell me about it! :D Just let me know. :) Btw, if you're interested, please remind me, or else I'll forget... *s* ~aeonx~

destinyawaitsme	16 May 2002
I think the problem with this is...sometimes, we might like people who we shouldn't like. A lot of people come to find out that what seemed great at the time...didn't seem too appealing in the future. So I think that's the danger of love spells. You might not be looking at the big picture! I would do some soul searching. Figure out what obstacles stand in your way from finding love. (tarot cards are great for this, but you probably already knew that.) Take care of those, then maybe you could modify that spell to jsut simply bring love into your life. Not necessarily a specific person.

wavebreaker	16 May 2002
A few weeks ago I bought a book about tarot in a local bookshop, but when I started using it, I didn't really like it, so I put it away. However, this book has some "tarot rituals" in it, is that the same as a spell? The book is by Heidemarie H. Pielmeier, the original is in German, I don't know if anybody knows it.

MeeWah	16 May 2002
Aeonx: Destiny expresses it well. It moreorless boils down to being careful with what is being wished for. Bringing love into the life is an appropriate intent in that it does not limit the possibilities.

Butterfly	16 May 2002
I love this book! I was really surprised to see this spell, as I'm against the idea. In her defense she does recommend never using this spell, and only under very specific circustances (which I still did not agree with!) I did the money spell- within two weeks, we got a tax bill $10,000 less than expected, a dental quote about $15,000 less than expected, my hubbie got a $10,000 raise, we won a prize in a competition and lot's of other strange things happened (one day I went shopping and everything I bought was significantly marked down on the cash register- bonus!). With the right amount of energy and intention- these spells are fabulous!

Maan	17 May 2002
He tarotlady The book you've got has some tarot spells in it. There not real good IMO but its a start. The spells in Renee's books work the same way!

Jimilyn	17 May 2002
Wow, Butterfly! Impressive results. I have had this book several months but have never used it. I guess I may need to get it out, dust it off, do a little reading and take some action. ;) Jimilyn ...who wouldn't have her feelings hurt at all with results similar to Butterfly's. :P

jema	18 May 2002
glad you got the book and liked it:-) the number one reason i traded it was that it is illustrated with the Robin Wood tarot (and i think that tarot deck had the ugliest people i seen in a deck.) i do tarotspells sometimes though - i just make them up myself. the book is a greatr way to find some new ideas and it is really goo if you prefer stricktly ordered spells with written down words to chant and rhymes and all. if it had been in swedish i might have used it more. so i am wondering - for all of you that just like me have a non-english language as a first language - how do you do with things like tarot-spells or rituals if those you follow is writtine in english? do you translate them on the fly or do you do them in english?

wavebreaker	18 May 2002
Quote: Originally posted by jema so i am wondering - for all of you that just like me have a non-english language as a first language - how do you do with things like tarot-spells or rituals if those you follow is writtine in english? do you translate them on the fly or do you do them in english? I haven't done any spells yet, but when I pose a question for a reading or write down the meaning of cards, I do it mostly in English, because all my cards and all my books but one are in English. To me, for some reason, using English feels more natural.

aeonx	18 May 2002
Greetings again all. *s* Jema: oh, I forgot to say I received the book! I was going to write you a PM, but... it's typically me. :D Anyway, thank you so much for the trade! It was a really cute card too! :) I haven't thought about the 'problems' concerning the general love spell. I guess the same principles apply to this one. However, if this is morally wrong, is it more right to perform one of the other spells? I must seem quite desperate... *lol* *pout* ~aeonx~

aeonx	18 May 2002
Quote: Originally posted by jema so i am wondering - for all of you that just like me have a non-english language as a first language - how do you do with things like tarot-spells or rituals if those you follow is writtine in english? do you translate them on the fly or do you do them in english? As you know, I'm Norwegian, but I'll still perform spells in English. I would do them in their original language I think. Besides, it sounds a whole lot better in English... *lol* ~aeonx~

Kaz	18 May 2002
i don't do tarotspells, but when i do something for the studygroups and things like that, i always do it in english, my decks are english as well. the only time i use dutch is when i discuss tarot with ppl irl, and that's not very often. and then i notice i don't even know certain tarot-related words in dutch which i use all the time in english. kaz

jema	18 May 2002
even though my english is pretty ok, i always feel too self.conscious when i do any kind of ritual in english - like it was just an act. of course this may be due to that my gods are nordic and to adress them in english just seems very wrong. my decks are of course almost all in english too - but somehow that doesn't interfer too much. when i do readings i do them in swedish (or my clients would be very upset i think...) but i do agree that on the whole the community we learn from is very english/american so in a way that language is taking over in some cases.

Maan	18 May 2002
I do the spells from Renee's books in english but when i make my own than i use dutch. The quesions a ask the tarot are dutch also! Hope this does not meen that my english decks dont understand me :( ;) So fare no problems :)

Jenny-Li	18 May 2002
Hi! I haven't really done any spellwork yet, so I'm not going there with this post, just a little reflection on my readings: Since I came to this forum, I've started to be more and more confused when it comes to language. Now I don't do readings with clients or querents present, I do the reading on my own and post it or e-mail it to whoever it's for. So I write down what I get from the cards without thinking so much about it (afraid I will lose the "connection" I guess!), until afterwards, when I realize that I've written every other sentence in Swedish and every other in English - or even sometimes half the sentence in Swedish and the other half in English...!! Now is that a state of linguistic confusion or what??! :D Jenny :)

Maan	18 May 2002
I now exactely what you mean! If it only made my spelling better :( But now it only makes my note's harder to read ;)

MeeWah	18 May 2002
Jenny-Li: I would not see it as a "linguistic confusion" but a part of being bi-lingual; perhaps indicates a facility with both. At times, I think & speak in a combination of 2 languages, though English is now my primary language. Sometimes another language more aptly captures the nuances. BTW: You have an excellent command of the English language, better than most native speakers! I would not have known English is not your native language if you had not indicated this a while back.

Red Emma	19 May 2002
I have Renee's book, and I was stunned to hear she has such a spell. I (did) respect her a lot. But if you can make a spell binding a specific person to you, just think, you'd also be vulnerable to the Ted Bundy's of the world, other unpleasant people, not to mention "stalkers." Most reputable authors, i.e. Marion Weinstein, Silver Ravenwolf, etc loudly proclaim against such a practise. They suggest instead that you ask for the essence of a concept. Instead of asking for a specific person to love you, ask for a lover who will bring you love, companionship, understanding, and whatever other qualities you prefer. You could even describe the qualities of the person you're thinking of specifically naming. That specific person could turn up, or someone even better.h

catlin	11 Jun 2002
When the spell, ritual, etc I want to use is written in English, I use English but the ones I make up myself are in German.

Strega	04 Aug 2002
Quote: Originally posted by aeonx [b] There are obviously spells for everything! :D However, I noticed -of course- the love spells, and especially one of the two: How to win the love of a specific person? I did think about buying that book. However, when I went to amazon.com to read the reviews, I was turned off by people going ecstatic over that particular spell. Too manipulative, IMO. I was a bit disappointed that the author would briefly discuss "Ethics"? And would still include a spell that doesn't respect another's free will. Just my $0.02. :)

RedWood	04 Aug 2002
The specific title is...To win the love a specific person.. says when you desire to waken love... I don't see this as a horrible spell...How can you awaken love in a person if they don't have those feelings for you anyway?..I have not used this spell nor do i need too...She does give a warning at the end...I don't think it is completely un ethical on her part..She wrote the book..knowiong this is what people want..it does not bind anyone or make them fall in love with you in anyway...

Strega	05 Aug 2002
I never said it was unethical for the author herself. But I did wonder what was discussed on the page on "Ethics". :) Love is a good thing. There can never be too much of it. And nothing can be as painful as loving someone who doesn't love you back. However, I see this sort of spell as putting a straightjacket on another's free will. Is this the kind of spell I'd want someone to cast on me? Hell, no! And who's to decide if the feelings are there or not? :) I won't attempt to argue on this matter. Which spells are ethical and which aren't? I guess you and only you can decide on that. The ethics of one is not always the same as another. :) P.S. I think I'll go buy the book. The disappointment has subsided. :D I shouldn't let a lousy spell ruin a good book, right? :)

HudsonGray	05 Aug 2002
One good point to remember is that if you can't ask the person to their face if it's ok to do a specific spell on them ( and then describe the spell & what it's supposed to do) then you shouldn't do it. Ethics say you don't go behind someone's back & do stuff to them that you would be afraid to talk to them about to their face. Or reverse the position--how would you feel if someone did this on you & didn't tell you or ask your permission? The lack of trust is the first casualty & when you loose that in a relationship, you've lost most of the relationship. Love spells should be done on you, basically asking for love to come your way but that nobody's bound by it--so both parties can walk away if it doesn't feel right. This allows you to keep your eyes open to who approaches & you can be open & honest about the whole thing. Also, specify gender! And age. As I've seen on other lists, one got same sex approaching & the quote 'send a man into my life' got her pregnant with a boy baby (NOT what she intended, but she sure got the little 'man' in her life long term!). Remember, sometimes you GET what you asked for, not what you intended!

Strega	05 Aug 2002
Excellent point, HudsonGray. :)

RedWood	05 Aug 2002
I agree with Strega...Excellent point Hudson Grey!!

Major Tom	06 Aug 2002
Before casting a tarot spell - for anything - yes, even for attracting the love of a specific person. Perform a tarot reading asking the question: What will be the result if I perform this spell? Based on the results of the reading - you can then decide whether or not to proceed with the spell. In this way you take informed responsibility for your actions. I'm willing to bet a fiver that if you do a reading asking about casting a spell to win the love of a specific person (without their knowledge) - the reading will convince you not to do it. })

Momof6	11 Aug 2002
Good Morning, I'm late coming into this thread but would love to add my feelings. Just to give you an idea of where I am coming from....I am a second degree student with the Order of the White Moon with the ultimate goal of becoming High Priestess where I can teach others. My personal practices are eclectic in nature...with a large emphasis on the Feminine Divine. I do use spells as part of my spiritual path, but only when I feel a strong need. I do not do a large amount of spells as I feel that these are very powerful and not to be taken lightly. I do have the book you are speaking of. Love spells have a very large potential of being misused in my opinion. A love spell is not unethical...but the way it is done, can be. (my opinion only) My question to those who ask me about this is...would you want the love of someone that was not genuine from their heart and soul??? Would you want to have your feelings manipulated by a spell? In Janina Renee's book, the spell titled "To win the Love of a Certain Person" (pg.212) is one that I feel is unethical. I'd never do this spell. I actually have a red X across this spell in the book with a notation in the margin about the ethics of this spell. I personally have no problem with a love spell that does not target a specific person. (much like the love spell in Renee's book that directly preceeds the spell I don't like) That way, the universe has control over how the spell will work. I personally would rather let the God/Goddess/Universe channel the spell. Actually, this is a big "gripe" of mine with the way the media in general distorts the many earth based traditions that use spells. Many people come into the craft (as well as other traditions) with the wrong intent and a lot of the time, the illusions of spells, power, mystery etc....portrayed by some poor books, tv shows, movies etc...are greatly responsible for this. In actuality, these things are a very very small part of walking a earth based spiritual path. Ok...lots of opinions here! *lol* Bright Blessings and love and light, Momof6

divinerguy	13 Aug 2002
I have this book, and will trade it for a Tarot deck. PM me if with any proposed trades.

the hermit	20 Aug 2002
Just came back to this thread after reading it last week. I have the book in question and for the most part find it interesting and useful. I found the variety of comments on ethics in this thread interesting. Personally, I especially agree with you, Momof6, about what we both consider unethical expectations that many come to the craft with due to the media and some writers. Everyone's ethical choices are, of course, personal. And everyone can and often does have a different view about what might harm another. Yet to me, the forcing of ones will or wishes upon another would almost always seem to be unethical. I can't see any difference between the con artist who sets up a situation where by they can manipulate another so as to bilk them out of money OR the person who uses any method (psyhic, magickal or psychological) to attempt to force another into a personal relationship. It would seem to me that both acts are unethical manipulation of a fellow human being.

Cerulean	21 Aug 2002
I believe that Tarot for All Seasons has good advice. In the Chapter A Year and A Day it suggests "for the good of all, harm none, its equivalent or better, according to free will, so must it be." I realize some people will disagree with me, but below here's my small experience. Does this seem offbase? I'm afraid that I was once targeted by someone. If he practised spells in addition, my distaste and distress toward him grew threefold. Once, a new worker in the same work complex that I was in said he thought that he wanted to exercise at lunch-time, starting with walking. He saw me doing runs every other day on a particularly challenging hill. I believed that being a sports buddy was a kind thing. My version of starting out slow during that time was two-mile runs or five-mile walks. It turns out he confessed after a few times, this was a ruse. He believed his attraction to me came from another time, he taught magical arts and he didn't mind how athletic and busy I was. He wanted to get to know me. Because I was so dense, he had the birthdays of myself and my sister---he was trying out an astrology program, he said. That I was seeing other people didn't matter...you get the picture. I joined different clubs and switched my workouts. But after a few months, he was still mentioning lunch or dinner. (He was not interested in exercise). I found he had spoken to others about his interest in me. I found presents from him on my birthday some months later from a metaphysical bookstore near my home. It was all about what he wanted, including invitations to his society (I believe it was Rosacrucian). Some people he worked with turned a cold shoulder to me, believing that I let him on (I never asked for details, I had no intention of even speaking about him). Fortunately, I found work in another area and moved on a few months later. My memory of this, although mild to you, was how much my dislike I had for being put in that situation. I'm more likely to speak at work only about sports and outdoor activities, never about my inner interests. Best wishes, Mari H.

lupo138	22 Aug 2002
hmmm. First of all I would like to state a compliment to all of you, that posted to this thread. You really try to discuss the topic, (I think it is now mainly about love spells) without too much emotion and a lot of compassion and insight. (On another board at another website was the same topic discussed in a rather rude way.) May I add my thoughts: Love spells can be divided in the ones that should bring love into one´s life in general, without being aimed at a special person. I have no problem with these kind of spells, did one some time ago for myself and was really satisfied with it´s result. The other sort is to get a special person. Of course this is gray magick. But how gray ? You influence the will of a person, right. This is an effect of nearly any spell, isn´t it ? I think so, but here it is something special with love spells, beacuse they are dealing with a most intimate and most important part of a human being and his or her life. And the "caster" of the spell gives this part a shape that fits his or her own needs, not the needs or will of the beloved one. If this is really done, the will behind it is not influenced by true love, but the sheer will of having, OWNING somebody. It means enslaving another person in some way - should we enslave the ones we love ? And if we feel, that we should, what does that tell about ourselves, and our moral standards ? A lot of, but not quite positive things. So if it is a spell that tries to get a little bit attention from a person, so to say some sort of chance, and one really feels a strong attraction, I think one could deal with that, regarding karma. But a step more would be one too many, showing the lack of compassion and the absence of true love. I would be interested in your thoughts, whether you agree with me. Thank you and blessed be !

Red Emma	22 Aug 2002
Mari: What a horrible, scary, unbelievable experience. It expresses the kernal of the belief that one should never try to usurp another's free will. I hope you have your life back, and all is well with you. Several of the writers' of Pagan literature describe actions one can take to protect one's self from the intrustion of others. One of my favorites on the subject is Marion Weinstein's "Practical Magic." Goddess Bless, Red Emma

the hermit	23 Aug 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Red Emma Mari: ... Several of the writers' of Pagan literature describe actions one can take to protect one's self from the intrustion of others. One of my favorites on the subject is Marion Weinstein's "Practical Magic." Goddess Bless, Red Emma I'm not aware of any book written by marion titled practical. Perhaps I'm mistaken, but did you mean "Positive Magic: Occult Self-Help" by Marion Weinstein... which I agree is an excellent book.

Cerulean	23 Aug 2002
Red Emma or others: (This is offtopic, sorry.) I didn't mean to scare anyone with my story. It's been over eight years---my blessed anniversary to someone of great kindness and strong heart is over six years. I only recalled the experience after reading this thread. I am beginning studies of the ancient world with a wonderful teacher whose classroom is like a friendly cultural center. And so I'm starting back on the goals that I had some eight years ago, but delayed by my alarm and association. I just hope anyone doing their focused attention will keep harmony in mind. I think that is what this experience taught me. Best wishes, Mari H.

the hermit	23 Aug 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Mari_Hoshizaki Red Emma or others: (This is offtopic, sorry.) I didn't mean to scare anyone with my story. It's been over eight years---my blessed anniversary to someone of great kindness and strong heart is over six years. I only recalled the experience after reading this thread. I am beginning studies of the ancient world with a wonderful teacher whose classroom is like a friendly cultural center. And so I'm starting back on the goals that I had some eight years ago, but delayed by my alarm and association. I just hope anyone doing their focused attention will keep harmony in mind. I think that is what this experience taught me. Best wishes, Mari H. that's ok, glad you're with us... we're all here to learn, one way or the other.

Red Emma	23 Aug 2002
Yes, Hermit. I did mean Marion Weinstein's book, "Positive Magic." I even had the book on the table beside me! Red Emma

the hermit	24 Aug 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Red Emma Yes, Hermit. I did mean Marion Weinstein's book, "Positive Magic." I even had the book on the table beside me! Red Emma that's ok... new books coming out all the time, just wanted to make sure I hadn't missed one from one of my favorite authors :) sometimes if it weren't for my drivers license I wouldn't know my own name :) I suppose that I shouldn't have killed so many brain cells during my mis-spent youth!

All Is One	24 Aug 2002
For a well-balanced and intrigueing- off-the-beaten-Path book on Tarot and Occultism and Spells and alot of lore, etc...some of you might be able to dig up a copy of the wonderful book by Tony Willis, pub in UK- It is a guide to the Magickal Tarot, by Clark...Exact title...hmmm ...Just escapes me- It is my all time favorite book on Tarot- meant to accompany the deck -The Magickal Tarot, which, after wearing the large paberback from a toss off bin totally to shreds, I finally bought. A powerful deck, well-suited for students of the Osbourne-Phillips School of High Magick...almost an overwhelmingly intellectual deck. Odd thing is- the much smaller book w/deck is also by Willis... Yet- ...totally different in every way. Felt as if he was poking fun at those who read the "wrong" book. (The one w/the deck being 15 yrs or so later...and has intentional misleading twists!) Contradictions and sarcasm at every turn. I'll post original (OOP?) book title soon... Great spells and advice on the morality of when and how to use them.

The Tarot Spells: can I do this? thread was originally posted on 16 May 2002 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.