Internet readings

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 10 Jul 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Moongold	10 Jul 2002
What do people think about the many cyber readings that are available? I began to use them personally at first and then because I was interested in how people interpreted the cards. I had to stop eventually because these readings somehow deplete my energy. What has been the experience of others? Many thanks

Sullanciri2002	10 Jul 2002
If you adhere to one of the first principles of Tarot - that the cards drawn are not random, but have meaning because you've linked to them by contact (law of contagion in a sense, no ?) - then the whole idea of having somebody reading the tarot for you over the net is completely and utterly *********** It can be fun as a game, but it shouldn't be taken as more than that. Heck, I could go on about all of the reasons "why not to" here, but I think that one should suffice ?

kayne	10 Jul 2002
Moongold, do you mean Tarot that is randomly generated on some sort of internet based program or by someone that is doing readings for you and emailing the results? I have done a few readings for people online and I would say (and the quarent has told me) that the readings have been very accurate. My favoured method for doing online readings is via webcam and while chatting on MSN... The querant is with me every step of the way and I can show them the cards on the cam as they come up... It works well!

SharonElizabeth	10 Jul 2002
If you are talking about stuff like tarot.com, where you are choosing from a virtual deck, I find that to be medeochre at best. I used to use tarot.com before I knew how to use my own deck, and found the readings to be adequate, but sometimes cards would come up that just didn't make sence to the spread or to my question. Once I started learning the tarot, tarot.com lost all interest for me. The readings didn't make any sence, and I would have rather done my own readings. I think there needs to be an actual tarot deck, with an actual person using it for there to be an accurate reading. Even if the person reading is far removed from the querent, it's still alot more accurate than a computer doing tarot readings.

tigerlily	10 Jul 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Sullanciri2002 If you adhere to one of the first principles of Tarot - that the cards drawn are not random, but have meaning because you've linked to them by contact (law of contagion in a sense, no ?) - then the whole idea of having somebody reading the tarot for you over the net is completely and utterly *********** It can be fun as a game, but it shouldn't be taken as more than that. I have done lots of readings over the net for people I've never met before, and they all said the readings were accurate. I shuffled the cards myself, since someone on the other side of the planet can't very well do this for me, so I don't see why one would have to *physically* touch the cards in order to create a link. In my opinion, the request for a reading is sufficient. Quote: Heck, I could go on about all of the reasons "why not to" here, but I think that one should suffice ? No, I'd like to hear your other reasons as well, please.

Geenius at Wrok	10 Jul 2002
I don't believe that it's possible to do an accurate reading for someone you've "met" only over the computer. I believe you have to know the person directly. Magic and tech don't mix, IMO.

Lightlike	10 Jul 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Sullanciri2002 If you adhere to one of the first principles of Tarot - that the cards drawn are not random, but have meaning because you've linked to them by contact (law of contagion in a sense, no ?) - then the whole idea of having somebody reading the tarot for you over the net is completely and utterly *********** Well doesn't spiritual connection count? When I do a reading for someone on-line I like to ask a few basic questions: name, age, etc. Then before I do the reading I try to let my subconcious connect to the person's energy and thus help me to read the cards for the person. But that's just my ritual--often times I think the connection happens naturally--after all like you said "the cards drawn are not random." A lot of my on-line readings (both given and recieved) have been accurate. Perhaps you would benefit from being read on-line by someone at Aeclectic in the Reading Exchange forum...it just might surprise you and change your mind.

Lightlike	10 Jul 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Geenius at Wrok I don't believe that it's possible to do an accurate reading for someone you've "met" only over the computer. I believe you have to know the person directly. Magic and tech don't mix, IMO. If you argue for your limitations then they will surely be yours. Many people have given and recieved accurate tarot readings on-line. But then to each their own, I guess.

Phoenix	10 Jul 2002
I've moved this thread to the Talking Tarot forum because I believe that it fits in better here :)

zorya	10 Jul 2002
the most life changing reading i ever had, was done on-line, by someone here at aeclectic. makes me think alot about time/space...anyway, i've been told that the readings i've done here were very accurate also. i wouldn't consider a computer generated reading. they can only print out their version of the lwb. they can't read between the cards. they can't connect with...............

Sorceress_Jade	10 Jul 2002
If one can project energy over a distance, why wouldn't they be able to summon it? When I read in person, I shuffle the cards myself. In general the querrent doesn't touch my cards. I can understand that there is a difference in the quality and quantity of energy recieved in person, or via simply communicating (over the net, via letters, phone, etc.) But I can't see that a reading would be invalidated because the person was not there. You can read on up comming events that aren't sitting in front of you. Ask questions about things that will happen that don't even necessarily involve you. That is drawing the energy over a distance. It has to do with your own focus and concentration. my two cents. :D

tigerlily	11 Jul 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Geenius at Wrok I don't believe that it's possible to do an accurate reading for someone you've "met" only over the computer. I believe you have to know the person directly. Magic and tech don't mix, IMO. Have you actually tried to give or receive a reading that way, or is this just your prejudice against computers speaking ;) ?

Sullanciri2002	11 Jul 2002
As far as people's reactions to my earlier statement go - yes, I have indeed tried readings over the net, not by programs but by actual people ... and have always had a hard time keeping serious when I heard their attempts to use the ages-old tricks of playing on statistics, averages, and vague clichés. I'm not targetting anyone here, but you'll all have to admit that there are just too many con-artists out there making an easy buck and using the oldest tricks in the book. Judging by the reactions, I understand that people here have very different and widespread concepts of what makes a reading work ... but I'll stick with my conception of where the "magick" comes from (once again, no, my use of that term doesn't mean I'm a hardline Crowleyist), and it does imply direct physical contact. As to one of the other reasons I was thinking off - you do need the interaction between reader and querent to fully explore the possible interpretation of the cards and the story they tell ... but my reasoning in this was only related to those internet-readings where a program does the work or there's no form of chat !

tigerlily	11 Jul 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Sullanciri2002 As far as people's reactions to my earlier statement go - yes, I have indeed tried readings over the net, not by programs but by actual people ... and have always had a hard time keeping serious when I heard their attempts to use the ages-old tricks of playing on statistics, averages, and vague clichés. I'm not targetting anyone here, but you'll all have to admit that there are just too many con-artists out there making an easy buck and using the oldest tricks in the book. I'm a bit surprised that you would list "playing on statistics, averages and vague clichés" under "Tarot reading". The two have nothing to do with each other. And yes, there are people who make their money by playing tricks on their clients, but that doesn't disprove the validity of readings by serious Tarot readers. It only proves the existence of con-artists. Quote: Judging by the reactions, I understand that people here have very different and widespread concepts of what makes a reading work ... but I'll stick with my conception of where the "magick" comes from (once again, no, my use of that term doesn't mean I'm a hardline Crowleyist), and it does imply direct physical contact. I'm not arguing against anyone's experiences; neither do I feel the need to prove myself to anyone. The only thing I ask is that you don't overgeneralize. Just because you had bad experiences with internet readings, doesn't mean that everyone will have them or that they are all invalid. And people here did not only talk about what they think makes a reading work, they told you that they had distance readings and that they did work for them. Theory is one thing, experience another. The theories are based on their experiences, not the other way round.

Sullanciri2002	11 Jul 2002
Well, Tigerlily, for someone who feels she doesn't have to prove herself ... you seem to be protesting mightily indeed. Could it be that you feel personally attacked because you do readings over the net. As Shakespeare once said "Me thinketh the lady doeth protest too much". If you feel the need to heckle my opinion in particular, you can contact me through my e-mail and we can leave other readers to enjoy this thread.

Umbrae	11 Jul 2002
Quote: Originally posted by zorya the most life changing reading i ever had, was done on-line, by someone here at aeclectic. makes me think alot about time/space... …seems as though there is a split in opinion. Opinions do not qualify as facts, nor do they imply a statistical process. Cold-Reading is the art of using statistics, averages, and general psychology to produce a ‘reading’, and yes con-artists are everywhere (from tarot to the stock market, psychic healing to the US Congress). Computer produced readings utilize a LWB/statistical approach wherein there is no ‘magickal’ input. Computer based readings by a person CAN have a magickal, psychic, or intuitive input; however once again, you may be subject to getting a ‘cold-reading’. There are some very good readers amongst us, who communicate using the computer as a medium. An mind is like a parachute, it can leave you screaming in terror all the way to the ground, or not. Depending on its state of openness.

tigerlily	11 Jul 2002
What I protest, Sullanciri, is that you take your personal experience and state it as general fact. I'd have no problems if you had stated it along the line of "Personally, I had bad experiences with internet readings, I only met con-men who told me nothing but a load of crap". I respect your experience and the opinion you base upon it. Which means I won't do a reading for you to "prove that you're wrong". You're perfectly right with your opinion about internet readings as far as it concerns you personally. But your saying "the whole idea of having somebody reading the tarot for you over the net is completely and utterly **********" means that every reading that people here on aeclectic have ever given is utter BS; it also means that every reading that they received is invalid. And since you stand by that opinion, although people have told you that they found those readings accurate for them, you are basically dismissing their experience. Which gives the impression that you insist that you're right and everyone who disagrees with you is wrong. Since the subject of this thread is "internet readings" and the original poster asked what people think about it, I see no need to pm you. We're not off topic; what else should people enjoy here but a discussion about the validity of distance readings?

Geenius at Wrok	11 Jul 2002
Quote: Originally posted by tigerlily Have you actually tried to give or receive a reading that way, or is this just your prejudice against computers speaking ;) ? Oh, I have no prejudice against computers at all. Wonderful, life-enhancing gizmos. I've been using 'em for almost 20 years. I simply don't believe that they can transmit the essence of a person you've never had any other sort of contact with. I wouldn't expect myself to do a reading for someone I'd only had contact with over the phone, either. Handwritten (not typed) letters might offer some degree of connection, but for complete confidence I'd need to have met the person at some point. As for computer-generated readings, the very concept is simply preposterous, and if you know anything about the various failings of computers' "random" number generators, you understand why.

tigerlily	11 Jul 2002
Geenius: I wasn't talking about computer-generated readings, we're absolutely on the same page there! We obviously disagree about distance readings (internet, phone, etc), but hey, to each their own!

raeanne	11 Jul 2002
Hi all, I have a very good friend who is a quadriplegic. He is not able to shuffle the cards. When I do a reading for him, I just think about him and shuffle the cards for him. The readings still turn out correctly. I believe it is a spiritual connection that is the most important. However, I have found out that if you THINK it CAN’T work, it probably WON’T work!

Dark Inquisitor	11 Jul 2002
Such turmoil. Probably everyone's abilities and reading methods are different. If you must have physical interaction to read, then that is true for you. I began reading for strangers via the computer with only their name & location.Occasionally just an area of life to concentrate on, but no details. That way if they verify the information, you & they know that you are on the right track, and they are not being taken advantage of. I told them not to pay me if I was wrong. Of course it is easier to have them in person so you don't have to do so many exploratory and comparative spreads to get a complete picture. I have found it is a matter of being able to tune in to the frequency of the other person, like you tune in a radio station. Don't ask me to explain it any better than that, because I can't. The reading exchange here is a wonderful experiment. Many readers working with the same querent, sometimes on the same question. So far all the readings I've gotten have been in agreement. I didn't know the readers personally, and I've certainly never been in physical proximity to them. Just because I can't compose music, it doesn't mean that music doesn't exist. Tarotphelia

Moongold	11 Jul 2002
[quote]Originally posted by kayne [b]Moongold, do you mean Tarot that is randomly generated on some sort of internet based program or by someone that is doing readings for you and emailing the results? I was referring to the programs such as Davis, Tarot.com and others which do readings for you automatically. They advise you to focus on your question and then give you a reading. I used them a little at first but some were wildly wrong so I stopped. I noticed that one program actually repeated the cards in a Celtic Cross reading so I guess that something had stumbled in the program itself. Just recently I had an internet reading from someone at World Tarot Readers and that was very compelling. The reader also responded to some comments I made about the reading and I found that more personal and quite valuable. Thanks to everyone for their responses. Monngold

Wardi	02 Nov 2004
I beleive that as long as you ask the question and the other person is focusing then there should be no problem in doing readings online. This a great way to get some practice, especially if you are a beginner. Also, I beieve that we are all connected by an unseen "god/dess" force so having them focus and not shuffle should not be a problem. This may be just me, but who cares, whatever

SeraphSarah	02 Nov 2004
I read for people online a lot using Tarot cards on different sites and boards. I have to say i've never had any complaints and all my feedbacks been great (not that I cant make a missinterp somehow in the future lol) . The way I do the readings online Is I focus on their first name and their online name as I shuffle the cards while also reading the persons post-That helps me tap into their energy and the universe knows what i'm asking of the cards. I feel the energy surround an dtingle in my palms and when the energy stops or I feel i've shuffled enough I flip the cards over and read them. When I do a reading in person it takes less time b/c the energy is in the room already and the quarrent shuffles for me. When I do the readings online the person is not always there either. SOmetimes If I do a long distance reading over the phone I will shuffle the cards an dthe quarrent will tell me when to stop after they've concentrated on their life or a question at hand..All these have worked for me an dthe quarrent with amazing results so far. :)

shelikes2read	03 Nov 2004
In my case, the primary difference between my doing a face-to-face reading, and one whose results are delivered by phone or email, is that I can't have the seeker cut the cards if they're not in the same room with me. I generally shuffle the cards myself. If the person who has requested the reading is in the room with me, I have them cut the deck. Otherwise, I cut it. Then I lay out the cards. And, of course, if the person is with me, I give them the results verbally. Otherwise, since in most cases the phone requests were "Would you read this topic and get back to me?", I write down the results and call or email the person to tell them. But the long and short of it is, I haven't found that the person needs to be present with me, nor must they have contact with the deck, in order for the reading to be successful.

Formicida	06 Nov 2004
Personally, I don't see much wrong with the computerized reading sites, within certain limits. It seems like a good backup plan for when you need a reading but have no access to a deck. I would never use it to replace physical contact with the cards, though, because the shuffling is a useful meditative activity (it's the same reason that when I'm doing I Ching, I prefer the yarrow stalk method over coins or tokens). For me, Tarot is about finding messages in randomness, so I don't see why it should matter how that randomness is generated. (Yes, I know that computer random number generators aren't truly random, but neither is shuffling. The important thing is that the outcome be beyond the knowledge of your conscious mind.) Of course you don't read the canned meanings that the site gives you. As long as the site gives you pictures of the cards, you can read them the same way you'd read any other cards. If you have really fixed mental meanings for each card, I suppose you could do it without the pictures. On the other hand, I would never recommend these sites to someone with no knowledge of Tarot. Asking "Is Johnny my soulmate?" and receiving a full-fledged Celtic Cross with nothing but LWB meanings is probably not going to do anyone any good. But with a reasonable knowledge of how to ask questions and how to interpret the cards, I don't see why the vehicle of the answer should be a problem.

Ace	06 Nov 2004
For reading for myself, I think there is NOTHING better than a computer generated reading. I used to use Divinationsystems.com but they just bellied up and I will miss it terribly! When reading for others by phone, I ask them to think about their question and tell me when to stop shuffling. That way, they are a part of the reading. That is why I asked people to give me a number so I could pull THAT card when I was doing one card pulls earlier this week. (I was careful not to shuffle the deck during that time.) But for reading MYSELF: the computer does not allow me to manipulate the cards. Since I use the LWB when reading for myself anyway, this is perfect! Moongold wrote: I had to stop eventually because these readings somehow deplete my energy. Moongold, what do you mean by this?

The Internet readings thread was originally posted on 10 Jul 2002 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.