Roads into tarot...Science or Spirit...what guides YOU?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 10 Jul 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

star streak	10 Jul 2002
....do you read, and have you always read, simply by intuition? How did you learn symbolism of the cards, and how they related to each other in a spread? Simply by doing? Everybody, what approach do use, and why? Who applies numerology? Do you simply see how the vibration of the corresponding number effects the symbology on the card? Do you add cards together, or use other 'standard' equations in a reading? What decks and books are best for learning the numerological approach to tarot? And you astological readers, do you relate the planets and signs of the cards to what is happening in the sky at the time of the reading, and/or the date and time of the querents' birth? Or do you see each spread as a 'sky', and relate the astological correspondences of each card to each other within the layout only? Doea Linda Goodman or somebody have a book on how to apply Astrology to tarot? What decks are basic for learning the astrology of tarot? As for psychological readers, do you read the cards like a Rorschach inkblot might be read? Is it possible to read from a psychological approach without engaging the querant in deep examination of their mental/emotional state? Or is the psychological approach mainly for self work? And how, do you think, psychology ties in to the mystical and mathematical approaches? There are hundreds of book and deck sets out there, that are geared to self help. Is there a 'basic' book that explains the psycholgy of tarot? Is there a 'classic' deck to use for this approach? Why and how do all of these different angles work? What are the similarities between them? Where and how do they tie in to each other? This is what I'm after, and I am sure I will spend my life studying it. I would just like to see what the more experienced of you consider to be the abc's of tarot, from each specific approach.

star streak	10 Jul 2002
....I am learning by reading the meanings of cards in one or more books, then I consider the placement of the card in the spread, 'feel out' what may or may not be happening in the querents' life and spirit, and why, and go from there. I am geussing that in time, I will be able to toss the books aside, look at the spread like it is several images from one painting, open my intuition, and go. However, the scientist/student in me is also very interested in the more systematic appoaches, like numerology, astrology, magic, etc. And then there is psychology, which is not quite science, not quite spirituality, not quite intuition, (yet is, indeed, all of these,) and for which there is little or no math or concrete formulae that I am aware of. I am very interested in learning ALL of the possible uses for the cards. Which means, I will spend a LOT of time studying the astrological, numerological, etc. approaches, as well as the history of tarot, (as I believe this carries an important flow into the present life of tarot, besides being interesting) So, the next logical step, for me, would be to determine the methods and results of many approaches, and the similarities in all -would the 'real' road to god please stand up? What are the benefits of combining two or more methods into interpretation? (I.e. Astrology and PsychologY) I think that armed with this kind of knowledge, my tarot reading would be very flexible, and I would be able to offer an interpretation based on a method that is more personalized to the querents' 'style'. I think if I learned many approaches to tarot, it would help me to understand more people with more depth and detail, directing them to a byway particularly suited to them. Am I making any kind of sense here? SO... I am very interested in the opinions of the more learned, and experienced amongst you, as to which decks (and books) are considered the basic, most valuable decks for each approach. This will help me steer away from spending too much time with the decks that won't do a whole lot for teaching me the science, art, history and spirit of Tarot, and I will have a fair idea of which decks to really examine, and with which books. Plus, your knowledgeable suggestions will probably save me a whole lot of money. If you have any insights into any of this mess of questioning, please, post! whew! Let me tell you, it is WORK being me!

star streak	10 Jul 2002
For those of you who are wondering how THIS one got started, here is the original question(s) I posed under the "Tarot Decks" forum: (Opinions, please, especially from you more experienced readers..which are the most important decks (and/or books) for the following approaches to reading: Astrological Numerological Psychological Intuitive Ancient Magical/mystical (and the specific 'schools' of Magic/mysticism, please-i.e. Pagan, Wiccan, Golden Dawn, Kabbala, etc. ) Any 'New thought' magical/mystical schools Decks for meditation purposes, dreamwork, and such Any other categories of approach that I have not thought of or listed. Also, which, in your opinion, are the 'most important' decks to have for reasons... Historical Educational Artistic (Classic and/or modern) Any other reasons that I have not thought of or listed. Of the decks you hold in high esteem, are there any that absolutely require the accompanying book? (If applicable). Thank you for your time, knowledge, and opinions!

lunalafey	10 Jul 2002
whew......I'm changing your name from star streak to Long Wind.... I cannot answer all your Q's but I can say this: I started with only a deck, the little book that came with it. This LWB (as some say) was not so little(there is one here that will tell you to burn them, and for the most part I agree) The deck had some variation from traditional decks, that was 12 years ago. I got my second deck 4 years ago. That deck had a BIG book and included what signs and planets associated with what card. During this time in my life I had also started to get deep into astrology. I find that decks with subject matter that I am familiar to are the best to go with. In the past year I have gathers a few books looking for new spreads. I found this place and started to pick up more books. Since my 2(first) decks where somewhat different, I wanted to see how these other decks compared(I found a GREAT OLD book,1975, Dictionary of the Tarot that lists desc. and intrps. for several decks) I came familiar with my decks by "playing" with them. going through the cards reading about it, finding something in the memory banks to associate it with(why subject matter is important)When I started out I also would test myself on the majors by making a list of them. When the 2nd deck threw in astology, I made my list and then added those associations until I knew them. Intuition, goes without saying, it's applied in other areas in my life, why would tarot be any different. I do pay attention to card placement and how it relates. For example, CC spread Q: what do I need to overcome my sadness..anger..etc. and you have a significator in the middle, a Sun reversed, and a 10 of cups crossing and to the left is the empress(past) and to the right is the emperor(future), dissregarding time, I see a divorce of the parents being the issue for the individual, he/she feels stuck in the middle(symbolic pun in card placement), and knowing human nature(which, BTW is something to add to the studies)I would say that this person feels responsible for the divorce. learn by doing, reading (books and cards and spreads) and well, by hanging out here... Well it's not as long as yours, I tried... I see that you will turn out to be a VERY good reader...

Sullanciri2002	10 Jul 2002
Hey Streak - big question, 'fraid I'm rather into short answers. Here goes - I'm a psychologist (univ. degree blabla ...) and got started with the Tarot as a means to open up conversation about certain "touchy" topics, and as a sort of "projective" instrument (I really do hate the Rorschach) that people could use to project their state of mind into. Schooled in many theories within the psychological domain, I have trouble fitting the Jungian (or other psycho-analytical approaches) in with the tarot. Throughout the years, and through the use of the Thoth deck, I've studied a lot of the basics on which Crowley based his work, and - although I'm certainly not a follower of Crowley - now have a lot of extra insights I can't help but use whenever I work with the cards. I guess it's just an evolving process, where the balance between scientific and intuïtive elements in my work with the Tarot shifts along with the primary focus of my interests and curiosity at that time.

Umbrae	11 Jul 2002
Hey, let me answer all of your questions in no order at all. I began long ago with a LWB, and one deck. I memorized the meanings. I did tons of readings, it got to where I would look at a card, and the brain knew the meaning without thinking, but the mind began making jumps (sometimes leaps). Everything got written down, readings, new expanded meanings… Now there are all these books that were not published years ago. I pick them up and check out the ‘meanings’, most of them correlate with the meanings that I ‘came up with on my own’. Some do not. Such is life. As readings progressed, I began to find that I did not spend so much time on ‘meanings’, I began to look at spreads for a ‘feel’. Sometimes cards ‘tell’ me things that have nothing to do with the ‘meanings’. For me, I found that it took a while. I had to get past the ‘what does it mean’ stage, to begin ‘listening’. Don’t spend a lot of money on books (unless you are wealthy). Spend time with the cards. The more time you spend reading somebody else’s opinion (stated as fact) the more time it will take to flush it out of your system and find your own heart.

the hermit	11 Jul 2002
BOY! Lots of interesting questions... How do I read and how did I learn the symbolism? about 25 years ago my aunt gave me an original Waite-Rider deck with A. E. Waite's book (yes… I know... they’re now sealed in special storage bags for books and locked in a safety deposit box at the bank). You can get a facsimile edition from Barnes & Noble and probably Amazon.com, but don't bother, it's a boring book! Anyway, I played with the cards, read the book, did some spreads and then put them away for about 10 years at which time my interest in other things ‘occult’ really flared up AND I discovered what a true treasure I had sitting in a shoebox. So I bought a new deck (another Rider deck—still have it, thought it’s pretty worn now) and took a class on Tarot at the local new age shop. The teacher recommended Eden Gray’s “A Complete Guide to the Tarot” so I got it. Learned the ‘classical’ meanings in the original class and from the book, got pretty good at spouting the definitions, impressed some easily impressionable friends and strangers. But found I saw more than the definitions. Began adding those views to my readings. About the same time I met an interesting reader at the Renaissance Faire in the ‘Black Forest’ near Novato, California who called herself ‘Madam Yago’. She was also teaching a Tarot class at a shop in Berkeley. I attended and she encouraged me to continue to be more ‘intuitive’ and discovered that my readings improved as I looked beyond the books. I’ve studied magick, crystal healing, alchemy, kabala, scrying, astrology, numerology and herbal medicine, as well as Tarot over the last 15 years. No I’m not a whiz, I just read a lot and go to classes when I find an interesting sounding one. But I do believe that my 'eclectic' education has added to my Tarot reading abilities. I do still find myself looking at the ‘classical’ meanings first, but then, as I look deeper, I try to move beyond them and let the cards speak for themselves. I read what the symbolism means to me in each spread, and I know that makes for my best readings.

the hermit	11 Jul 2002
Quote: Originally posted by star streak And you astological readers, do you relate the planets and signs of the cards to what is happening in the sky at the time of the reading, and/or the date and time of the querents' birth? Yes. Though eclectic in my normal approach, I do a 'Year--Month by Month' spread for some friends. I use a 13 card spread (A significator card goes in the middle of the 12 card circle--drawn from another deck so as not to remove any possibilities from the spread) and I do apply astrological intuition based on the basic information concerning the querent such as... in what constelation was the sun, the moon and the eight planets when this person was born and what this might mean to them now? what retrogrades might have effected them then? and now? what's the sky doing right now and how might that fit in? I don't get too in-depth, unless it's a really special friend, since I basically have to do a natal chart for them if I don't already have one done, which takes time... one of these days I'll find a program (astrology) I like... and can afford, but it's not on the top of my list right now.

tigerlily	11 Jul 2002
There is someone on Comparative Tarot (that's a group at yahoo groups... ) who bases her readings on astrological correspondences of the tarot cards; she also does a chart on the question/people involved and relates that to her spread. Don't ask me how she does it, I never understood it LOL, you'd have to join CompTarot and ask around (I can't even give you the name of this remarkable Astrologer/Tarotista, because I left the list a long time ago).

tigerlily	11 Jul 2002
All right, I'll try to break this down into manageable pieces ... Quote: Originally posted by star streak ....do you read, and have you always read, simply by intuition? As a beginner, I looked up the meanings and tried to fit them into my question and my life... doesn't work very well. To me, intuition is the act of selecting the appropriate meaning of a card among the hundreds of possible meanings this card could have; and sometimes, coming up with a new and unique meaning. Quote: I read a lot around... but I don't try to consciously memorize the meanings. They go straight to my subconscious and pop up when I need them. Information from other topics and life experience also feed my "knowledge" of the cards. And you have to do lots of readings - suddenly you begin to see the paterns and stories in a spread. You can't force this development, I can't stress this enough! It develops over time, with practice, and it can't be hurried. Quote: Gail Fairfield's "Choice Centered Tarot" is an excellent resource for the numerological approach to Tarot. I use the numbers to enhance the reading, but I don't reduce the cards simply to the math ;) I don't add up the cards, either. Quote: The classic decks are the Rider/Waite (and its sibling, the BOTA), the Toth, and the Marseilles. But there is no "classic deck for self-help"; I'd say it's whichever deck resonates with you. Try Christine Jette's books for this approach, Nina Lee Braden's "Tarot for Self-Discovery" and have a look at the Tarot Media section on the forum, where you'll find lots of booklists for everything you can think of. Quote: If I knew, I'd write a book and be rich ;) There's no short, simple answer for these kinds of short, simple questions, but let me try: the human mind is hard-wired to find patterns; it's a means of survival in a constantly changing environment. To look into the future means that you can anticipate dangers and ensure that your genes live on in the next generation. Tarot with its apparent randomness is a strong stimulus for this pattern-finding instinct, and the adding-on of other systems like astrology and numerology is the attempt to put everything into an all-compassing system and to find the underlying pattern of life (much like modern physics that tries to combine quantum mechanics and Einstein's relativity theory and find the world formula that explains everything, no?) That's the how, but as to the why... As I said, as soon as I know, I'll write that book :D

amyel	13 Jul 2002
I started with the Mythic tarot, and it came, at the time, with a guide book that really was very thorough...much more then a LWB. For me, the good thing about this deck - and still the way I approach any reading with any deck - is that it used stories/myths to describe the cards...and to this day, I guess I would say that my overall approach to reading Tarot is "story based". That is, I look for the connection of the individual cards in the greater spread, and when I describe the cards, I tend to jump around alot and make the connections that I feel need to be made. I lean more toward intuitive, because that is my nature anyway. But I also see patterns of things, and this applies to my Tarot approach, too, as I mentioned above. I have dabbled in numerology & astrology, but both are far too....mathematical...for my thought processes - however, I do tend to look for the patterns of frequent occurances of either suits (astrologically) and/or numbers (2's, 8's, etc). I believe these patterns are *sometimes* more important then the actual individual meanings of the cards, just as an abundance/noticable absence of court cards, major or minor arcana indicates. However, I am always trying to improve, and so over the years have amassed quite a library of books that take different approaches and theories. This has also proved helpful because I get other writers' card descriptions, and this fits into my "patterns" approach as well. I rarely devote myself to one approach...I guess this is the intuitive side of me coming out...and often find, especially recently, that the right reading approach comes to me. Sometimes I will change the spread after I lay out all the cards...I did this just last night in a reading for my 12 y.o. stepdaughter (her first, BTW). I started by laying out a simple 9 card spread (from 78DW): 3 for past, 3 for present, 3 for future; and decided after I laid them all out that it woud read better if I switched to a celtic cross, which I did, adding the required 10th card. Suddenly, for me, the whole spread and the message in the cards became clearer to me (I've posted the spread for additional thoughts under "Your readings", if anyone is interested). Hmmm....looking back over my response, it is clear to me my approach is "pattern based" followed closely by "intuitive".

Melvis	13 Jul 2002
I just have a couple of points to add to the wonderful suggestions made so far... One practice that I found helpful was taking a small notebook (with at least 78 pages ;) ) and assigned one card to a page. I would then write down helpful keywords or quotes from tarot books for the various cards I encountered. I would also make note of cards from decks that had a different take on a card's meaning than other decks did. I also wanted to bring up a book I'm currently reading called "Tarot and Psychology" by Arthur Rosengarten. The author comes from an occupational psychology background, so while the technical talk does get pretty heavy at times, he presents a unique perspective on the uses for Tarot in therapeutic practice. It may give you some insights into the psychological aspects of using tarot. I'm finding it very useful, myself! Peace, Melvis :TSTRE

The Roads into tarot...Science or Spirit...what guides YOU? thread was originally posted on 10 Jul 2002 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.