~ Tarot Ceremony and % accuracy

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 20 Jul 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

kayne	20 Jul 2002
When I bought my Tarot of the Origins deck the lady that sold me the deck also gave me a *free* computer printout 'parchment' and told me that this Tarot Ceremony was from an Ancient Celtic Gypsy Book that was now out of print and that when I got to know my cards I should do this ceremony to improve there accuracy. The ceremony is a fairly usual concecration ritual but at the bottom of the page, after completing the ceremony it says this: Quote: You had approximately 24 minutes to complete the task - how did you go? If completed on time then you will have a 100% accuracy in your tarot readings, (most of the time); if only half completed 50% accuracy in your tarot readings? What % did you get? Does anyone else think this is a bit... odd? The actual computer printout parchment does not actually say who wrote the ritual or name the Ancient Celtic Gypsy Book that it came from...

divinerguy	20 Jul 2002
I'm looking sideways at that one. Kinda makes me wonder how ancient that part of it is. Its not like the ancient Celts had clocks to make that determination.

Laurel	20 Jul 2002
Agreed. I would take the authenticity of that claim with a salt shaker or two. :) Which isn't to mean that the ritual itself isn't useful. But as you said, it sounds deritive and standard to a lot of similar concentration rituals, none of which make the same silly claims. Laurel

Marion	20 Jul 2002
Quote: Originally posted by divinerguy I'm looking sideways at that one. Kinda makes me wonder how ancient that part of it is. Its not like the ancient Celts had clocks to make that determination. lol, and I don't think they used percentages either.

Thirteen	20 Jul 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Marion lol, and I don't think they used percentages either. Oh, I wanna see this. Bunch of Celtic Gypsies (CELTIC Gypsies???), there amid their standing stones...with their Gypsy wagons behind them cause they just stopped off after all to do the ritual on these cards... "Hmmm. What'd'ya think, Alwin? Is the shadow at the 24 minute point there between the stones?" "No Vlad," (Vlad is more "gypsy" than Celt), "that position of sunlight there between the stones looks to me to be about 34 minutes." "Darn. That means our cards on parchment painted with natural berry dyes will have...what percentage accuracy?" "Well, let's see, I don't have a caculator on hand--those won't be invented for a few thousand years, but if it's 100% for 24 minutes, then...." I don't think so ;)

Umbrae	20 Jul 2002
How dare you imply the Ancient Celtic Gypsies new nothing of percentiles! Why just look at the word Percent! It comes from the Ancient Gaultic Roma word Pershu Centaus. Meaning Persian Carpets! Back in the days of the Gaultic Roma’s (or French Gypsies) Persian carpets were divided into 100 pieces to avoid the taxes levied upon them. Then the carpets were cleverly reassembled upon importation! Of course the French deported many of the Gaultic Gypsies, who then became gaelic gypsies, losing their capitalization in the process. It is also where we get the term, “you have a lot of gall” (meaning gumption), and also the term Gullible. (roflpp) Anybody need a bridge?

Thirteen	20 Jul 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Umbrae How dare you imply the Ancient Celtic Gypsies new nothing of percentiles! Why just look at the word Percent! It comes from the Ancient Gaultic Roma word Pershu Centaus. Meaning Persian Carpets! Back in the days of the Gaultic Roma’s (or French Gypsies) Persian carpets were divided into 100 pieces to avoid the taxes levied upon them. Then the carpets were cleverly reassembled upon importation! I feel so ignorant. Thank you for enlightening me. I shall go forth and spread word of the Ancient Celtic Gypsies and their wisdom of percentiles!

divinerguy	20 Jul 2002
Any connection to the Tarot of the Ancient Celtic Cat People?

Violet Gargoyle	21 Jul 2002
I think ancient readings would have translated more to this: If you took as long to read this particular scribed passage as the distance that the sun slips through a small willow branch the size of a grown man's fist, while a strong wind is blowing in the same direction of the sun's path, then your readings will be as accurate the number of arm's lengths of a girl child's arm, following the path of the longest exposed root of the eldest birch tree, visable to the naked eye when facing the mossed side of the nearest holy rock, and comparing it to that of her mother's arm's lengths measuring the same distance from the opposite point of origin...... Perhaps what you got was a loose translation?

Umbrae	21 Jul 2002
Okay okay gimme a sec. I’m facing the mossy side of the rock so I am facing south towards the sun but they removed the trees for this dang holy site so I cannot see if the sun has gone through a branch the size of my fist and the girl child, wait a second here… I know for a fact the girl-child is carrying a hundredth part of a carpet with cat people pictured upon it when assembled-what gives here. And this parchment smells of coffee and heated vegetable oil, and has a watermark! Did I save my receipt?

the hermit	21 Jul 2002
As a druidic sage I must point out that gypsies, Celtic or otherwise, were never allowed to park their wagons within 100 rods of the standing stones. Also they were required to pass through the guard station and be searched when entering or leaving the standing stone area. This procedure has greatly reduced the number of stones lost from the henge. Also I must mention that due to the overwhelming demand for the henge as a site for ceremonial purposes it is no longer permissible for drop in ritual use. All ceremonial and mystical reservations must now be made at least 2 weeks in advance.

kayne	21 Jul 2002
You guys are hilarious!!! :D:D:D I was laughing so loud my room mate came from the kitchen to see what the fuss was about. I am glad you thought it as odd as I did... :P

Umbrae	21 Jul 2002
Do the gaelic gypsies, still pull their wagons into a circle at night? I hear that this is done to improve the reception; or perhaps the digital age has reduced this need.

Diana	21 Jul 2002
edited

Umbrae	21 Jul 2002
They Died? When did this happen? I loved those guys, The Sea Scrolls were my all time favorite! They were so funny! Did you see them do the one about Mary and Joseph trying to book a room in a one camel town?

Diana	21 Jul 2002
edited

Violet Gargoyle	21 Jul 2002
Another loose translation, I think. What is the Gaelic Gypsy word for "Camel" anyway? Did the Celts originate breeding ancient war camel? Or was that another tradition borrowed from the Norse Lands? Remember, many are chosen, but few are Pict.

truthsayer	22 Jul 2002
********* Quote: Originally posted by Umbrae Do the gaelic gypsies, still pull their wagons into a circle at night?**************** is this where the american pioneers got the idea to put their wagons in a circle for safety from native american(Indian) attacks? was it the ancient celtic cat ppl who dance w/ dragons who attacked them? *** I hear that this is done to improve the reception; or perhaps the digital age has reduced this need. ********** i'm assuming they got this technology from the wisdom of the ancient celtic space aliens who fly highly advanced magic carpets thus making first contact w/ the gaelic gypsies? the dead sea scrolls: as far as the scrolls go, i didn't think that dead seas were capable of communication after death. did you call in sylvia browne or john edwards to assist? i'm sure one of them could help you figure this mystery out--i.e. whether it was a one camel or donkey town. my spirit guides channeled to me that it was actually a zebra. is this after death communication w/ the dead sea the result of some kind of cult activity? do you have a permit to do that here on this board? why can't you just let this dead sea rest in peace? i'm sure the ancient celtic cat ppl who mated w/ the celtic space aliens and gaelic gypsies to produce some perverse kind of after the garden of eden effect at stonehenge are properly laid to rest!!!!!!!! this is a very sordid affair. i hope someone can rectify the problem immediately. this has been going on a few centuries too long.

Diana	22 Jul 2002
edited

Umbrae	22 Jul 2002
I pray you do not take Diana seriously. She is after all, pulling your leg (not the one about the zebra though, your guide was, meschuga…vashtay?). Now, the Sea Scrolls were the warm up act for the very famous a cappella group, Harold’s Angels, who’s lead singer was of course the famous Gloria; more about her in December. Now in Beit Leham (Arabic for ‘house of food’, it was a roadside dive after-all) was indeed a one camel town. The Arabic word for Camel, is Gaemael. It is from this word that we have the anglo-saxon words (both) game, and gamble. Since they actually came from terms used to discuss the famous game where the disposed kings head was batted about with (wands) early polo mallets, and wagers were placed (‘won by a nose’). The words and concepts indeed did travel along with the Roma populous during their travels along the silk road, from modern India, across central asia, Persia…into the Gaultic and Celtic lands. The diminutive roma’s were often used as showpieces in their ‘shows’ put on for towns folk in order to earn sustenance. The Diminuative Roma’s were referred to as Little Kittens. Of course nobody like’s to be singled out, so they preferred the term, Cat Gypsies. It is of course from the Cat Gypsies that we get the Celtic Cat People (which unbeknownst to modern writers are indeed small in stature). If you are a true student of Celtic myth, you will find that fairies are not always nice, and the ‘leprechauns’ are not diminutive, or nice at all. In fact they (the unknowing ones) are confusing the Celtic Cat People with the Leprechauns! Gotta run. Slante’

Melvis	23 Jul 2002
Actually, I'd heard that just one of the Sea Scrolls had died, quite a while ago, actually, and you could see the clue about this on one of their CD's where he was barefoot and out of step with the other Sea Scrolls. Peace, Melvis :TSTRE

Violet Gargoyle	23 Jul 2002
I know that album! Usually referred to the "Grey Album" but it got little press, everyone always took it for Grannite.

Umbrae	23 Jul 2002
On the vinyl version, if you played the last cut backwards, you could hear them say, “Saul is dead”.

Thirteen	24 Jul 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Violet Gargoyle I know that album! Usually referred to the "Grey Album" but it got little press, everyone always took it for Grannite. Ah, the Sea Scroll's rocking "Grey Album." With powerful songs like "Miriam, My Dear," and "Why Don't We Do it in the Desert?" "Glass Pyramid," and, of course, "Helter Seltzer." Job, Saul, Moses and Davy were never better.

Violet Gargoyle	24 Jul 2002
Job- He was the cute one.

Melvis	25 Jul 2002
And I think Abraham made a huge mistake when he left the band before their first album, "Meet the Sea Scrolls". I heard he still plays the Qumran Club sometimes with his own band. It's sad, really, because he still bills himself as "The Fifth Sea Scroll". Peace, Melvis :TSTRE

Umbrae	25 Jul 2002
Their first hit, "Above You yea yea yea" is still a classic.

truthsayer	25 Jul 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Violet Gargoyle Job- He was the cute one. job might have been the cute one but he had too many personal problems for me. what about that terrible mess that happened to his family? he can't seem to hang on to money either. just too unstable. me? i liked davy b/c he was the smart one. he's not a bad poet either. always liked poetry. ;) saul must have been the quiet one b/c i don't remember him. if moses doesn't watch out he's gonna wind up in jail for starting illegal fires. no one really believed that burning bush story. we figured that his father bought off the authorities. what were those stone tablets moses drug down anyhow? they looked a little like tombstones. i wonder what he put on his? perhaps he's just been watching too many bad commercials... (now playing tomato dodgeball)

Violet Gargoyle	25 Jul 2002
Quote: Originally posted by truthsayer saul must have been the quiet one b/c i don't remember him. (now playing tomato dodgeball) More people remember Saul for his solo career, with hits like "I've got my mind set, et tu?"and "Blinded by the Light"

Umbrae	25 Jul 2002
You know, we have gotten off track. We have erred in making light of Kayne’s very serious question. I am sure that we could continue making jokes and puns about the poor Sea Scrolls (Qum-Run alone would play well here), and their songs (Good-Day, Sunshine; Here Comes the Son; Rocky Back-Room), however we are failing to attend to Kayne’s dilemma. Kayne, perhaps you could take your delicate ancient computer parchment, and possibly translate the ancient writings so that we may more aptly comment upon their content? We understand the 24 (not 23 or 25 mind you) time limit, but what about the rest of the parchment? Perhaps a math wiz could tell us the significance of the 24 minutes (78/24=3.25?)? I apologize to Kayne for allowing the board to get off track. Job was deeply misunderstood.

Thirteen	26 Jul 2002
Those we do need to get back to that venerable computer print-out, just one quick thing more.... Quote: Originally posted by truthsayer what were those stone tablets moses drug down anyhow? they looked a little like tombstones. i wonder what he put on his? perhaps he's just been watching too many bad commercials... A little "Scroll" trivia. Moses is always seen on Scroll albums carrying those two, enscribed stone "tablets" because the band, back in their Egypt days when they first played at the Oasis, was originally called "The Stone Tablets." It went with their pun that they "really rocked"--but then they decided, instead, to upgrade to parchment and became "The Sea Scrolls." Moses chose to carry around the tablets as a reminder of the original name. It is the back of these tablets (the part with no writing on them), in fact, that serve as the background for the infamous Grey Album. Moses may or may not have set those bushes aflame--he is often quoted as saying that they burned themselves and he heard voices coming from the fire. There is some evidence, however, that if he set the bushes on fire deliberately, it was not to "hear" the fire, but because the bush he was burning was...well, a narcotic....in fact, there's evidence that all four band members were into inhaling that smoke, if you get my drift....

amyel	26 Jul 2002
Ooooooooo.....all these puns are making me groan with delight.....

Violet Gargoyle	27 Jul 2002
Ultimately, it was a Gaelic Celtic Gypsy Catwoman who broke up the band. Once Bodducia O'Malley got herself introduced to Job at a showing of cave paintings that had made a stop in Rome, she insisted that she become the new 5th Scroller. She got Job to do an album with her, one that involved a lot of Ribbons being glued to the records. They called the method "Primal Streaming"..... I heard that Bodducia spends her time nowadays unearthing ancient computer parchment paper and translating ancient mathematics into a Gregorian time system.

Thirteen	27 Jul 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Violet Gargoyle I heard that Bodducia spends her time nowadays unearthing ancient computer parchment paper and translating ancient mathematics into a Gregorian time system. Wow, Violet, thanks for that update! I remember the whole Bodducia O'Malley uproar. Job, of course, was the one involved with her. There was that famous moment, captured on film, where Moses shouted at Job, "You're not suppose to get a new woman and be happy, you're suppose to suffer!"--for your art, that is. Translating ancient mathematic to Gregorian time, eh? Things become clear....

Umbrae	28 Jul 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Violet Gargoyle Ultimately, it was a Gaelic Celtic Gypsy Catwoman who broke up the band.---------I heard that Bodducia spends her time nowadays unearthing ancient computer parchment paper and translating ancient mathematics into a Gregorian time system. THAT explains the 21 minutes! Inna God-a-Divita (the Celtic Bastardization of Gaudete (gaudete cristus ex natus etc.) was the perfect timing mechanism disguised as music/shamanic druming! And there Kayne is your answer! You indeed must complete the ritual before the finish of Inna Goda Divita in order to enjoy accurate readings. Of course, this ritual must be done to the original version on Vinyl.

catboxer	28 Jul 2002
The problem is you'd have to break off the ritual to turn the record over. The song takes all of both sides of a vinyl LP. I should know. In 1968 I had a roommate who played it over and over, non-stop. I've heard it 13, 264 times. I didn't think it was very good even the first time. "so won't you come with me/And take my ha-aa-aa-and/ So won't you come with me/And walk this la-aa-aa-aa-and/ Please take my ha-aa-aa--aa-and Ba-da-da-da-da-doom-doom-da-da

truthsayer	28 Jul 2002
i never lost faith we'd give kayne his answer sooner or later. kayne is truly blessed w/ such innovative friends to find out the real answers where most fear to tread. i think the real moral of this story is never and i do mean never trust one of the ancient keltic cat ppl b/c you never know what the hell happened to your original question after such a great passage of time. so was that job the ancient celtic cat ppl assassinated in front of the tower of babel apartments or was that someone else? i don't really how that came out... am i in the right century or "LET'S DO the TIME WARP AGAIN!!!!!!!"

Umbrae	29 Jul 2002
Quote: Originally posted by catboxer In 1968 I had a roommate who played it over and over, non-stop. I've heard it 13, 264 times. Oh dude...Now I understand why you live in Bakersfield. ...and Truthsayer, just a step to the right...

zorya	29 Jul 2002
almost, lol.....it's just a jump to the left... and then a step to the right. but be careful where you step, as this thread is one of the trippiest yet. thanks all, for making me laugh and laugh and laugh...........

kayne	29 Jul 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Umbrae And there Kayne is your answer! Yeaaaah! LOL Hmm... I think I am too young to really understand any of it... this will take some serious net research... Job? Is that a name? LOL :P Thanks all!!!

Violet Gargoyle	14 Apr 2003
A slight bump- since this thread was so darned entertaining at the time....

azuremariposa	14 Apr 2003
oh my, yes! very entertaining indeed!! though, i would suggest "Zoltan" instead of "Vlad" for the Gypsy name...t'would be more apropo...:D Quote: Originally posted by Thirteen Oh, I wanna see this. Bunch of Celtic Gypsies (CELTIC Gypsies???), there amid their standing stones...with their Gypsy wagons behind them cause they just stopped off after all to do the ritual on these cards... "Hmmm. What'd'ya think, Alwin? Is the shadow at the 24 minute point there between the stones?" "No Vlad," (Vlad is more "gypsy" than Celt), "that position of sunlight there between the stones looks to me to be about 34 minutes." "Darn. That means our cards on parchment painted with natural berry dyes will have...what percentage accuracy?" "Well, let's see, I don't have a caculator on hand--those won't be invented for a few thousand years, but if it's 100% for 24 minutes, then...." I don't think so ;)

baba-prague	15 Apr 2003
quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Thirteen Oh, I wanna see this. Bunch of Celtic Gypsies (CELTIC Gypsies???), there amid their standing stones...with their Gypsy wagons behind them cause they just stopped off after all to do the ritual on these cards... ____________________ Er, em, as someone brought up in Belfast I did see quite a lot of gypsies, who we called "Tinkers" and I suppose they were Celtic - kind of. However, they spent a lot more time with scrap metal than with tarot. Maybe they were trying to make a stop-watch? You know, I never thought of that. Once when they camped in the field next to our house they left a cockerel behind when they moved on. He woke us up at five o'clock every morning until one day he mysteriously vanished (I suspect one of the neighbours had chicken soup for supper than night). Perhaps the gypsies left him because he couldn't keep time? Was meant to crow every 24 minutes but couldn't manage it? Perhaps he was not 100% accurate?! Okay, I'll stop, I'm blathering (good Irish saying - "blathering" - sounds like the celtic gypsies did a bit of it too ;-) ) and with that, back to work... Karen

baba-prague	15 Apr 2003
Wasn't the family name O'Vladigan?

Umbrae	16 Apr 2003
In the Third century BC, Eratosthenese observed (at noon on the summer solstice) that the sun illuminated the bottom of a well in Aswan (on the Tropic of Cancer) as it crossed the meridian; but in Alexandria (500± miles north) shadows were cast by the sun at high noon. He reasoned that this was due to the curvature of the earth – concluding that it was spherical. By double measurement of the arc of the meridian between the two places in degrees and stadia, Eratosthenes determined the circumference of the earth to be 252,000 stadia (Columbus was using Eratosthenese works when he sailed in 1492 which lead to his conclusion that he had indeed found India…but he could not reconcile (or admit he was wrong) that India just wasn’t there…he was off by just a few miles). It was not until 1669 that Jean Picard computed the circumference of the earth to 24,500 miles, accurate but still off. We had the Ptolemaic Theory, (Claudius Ptolemy used the works of Psoidonius (130-51 BC) to determine the earths circumference to be 180,000 stadia) placing the earth at the center of the solar system. This was refuted in 1543 by the publication of De Revolutionibus Orbium Coelestium by Nicolaus Copernicus who ‘proved’ the Heliocentric theory first championed by Aristarchus of Samos ( 4th century BC?). Then we had the calendar systems…The Julian calendar was used and accepted by Europeans after the heyday of the Roman Empire. They dickered around about when Christ was born (using that event as a starting point, I think they should use the birth of Ty Cobb myself). Around 1614, Johannes Kepler decided to (Kepler proved much of Tycho Brahe’s work to be archaic, Newton did the same to Keplar, who in turn was refuted by Leverrier, and everyone fell to Einstein) place Christ’s birth at 4 B.C.E.. But the equinox kept falling behind, on the calendar one full day every 130 years. By the 1500’s, the spring equinox was all the way back to early March. This was a dreadful situation… How can we celebrate Easter without ‘knowing’? So the pope decided to mandate a working calendar. 1582 was the year that Pope Gregory XIII ordered ten days to be dropped from the calendar…so that the equinox (vernal) was on March 20th, as it had been during the time of the Council of Nicea (now there is a historical event worth your while to research…woooo hooo!). Also “New Years” was moved from March 31st, to January 1st. Leap years were added. Most European nations adopted the Gregorian reform, with the exception of England and its Colonies, which held out until 1752. At that time, 11 days had to be cut from their calendar. Now the first Chronometer was not invented until 1660 by Chistian Huygens. So until that time – time could not be accurately measured, and longitude was guesswork. You see in celestial navigation…Latitude is easy. You take a reading from heavenly bodies. But Longitude my friends, is difficult. You are moving, on a moving body, sighting other moving bodies and attempting to justify relative locations. Now if you know how fast you are moving and for how long (time measurement), you can guestimate approximate location. The point here – is how ancient were the Ancient Celts (Cat People or naught). How did they fix their 24 minutes? Were those 24 minutes measured in a deleted day? Like Lapland – the entire country stood up at once – now gone forever… Did they measure during a Julian or Gregorian system? One must remember that statue miles differ from nautical miles for a good reason…so where and how and when were these 24 minutes measured? Worse yet…this all assumes a Eurocentric system. However…the Celts were originally from India. The Roma (Gypsy) peoples were also reputed to be from India albeit from a later date. So perhaps the Ancient Celtic Gypsies used an Indian Calendar system and a wholly dissimilar timing system not covered in my 1984 version of The Practical American Navigator (commonly called The Bowditch). Once again we are left to ponder… I think I need a cigarette… :smoker:

magpie9	16 Apr 2003
A Hassidic tale tells of a very religous man beseeching God to give him the correct date for The coming Passover. He did not want to accept the one his Rabbi had given him for fear it could be incorrect, thus causing him to sin inadvertantly against the Laws of G-d. He became such a nuisence that G-d sent one of his angels to tell him to ask the Rabbis since they were the one who did the calculations, and only they knew the exact dates. the Jewish Calender combines the Sun year and the Moon year---Somehow--to arrive at the correct dates for everything each year. I am always somewhat bemused by years in which easter precedes Passover. Personally, I'd put my money on the Rabbis, not the Pope. ~~~~~~~~ ;) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Thirteen	16 Apr 2003
Quote: Originally posted by magpie9 I am always somewhat bemused by years in which easter precedes Passover. I wonder that m'self. You'd think if they could fix a birthday for J.C., they could fix a day he died--and, thus, count 3 days forward for the date of his ressurrection. How is it that the day can change from year to year? (No fair making references to Eostar and pagan rituals which might have been, ah-hem, stolen for Christian purposes). Passover's floating date is a little easier to understand as it encompasses the whole Moses & Pharoah story which had to take a bit longer than 7 days--so these are just the 7 days commemorating the story, not the 7 days that they occured on. Just a Springtime query to tac onto this enduring thread of non-linear time....

Violet Gargoyle	17 Apr 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Thirteen I wonder that m'self. You'd think if they could fix a birthday for J.C., they could fix a day he died--and, thus, count 3 days forward for the date of his ressurrection. How is it that the day can change from year to year? (No fair making references to Eostar and pagan rituals which might have been, ah-hem, stolen for Christian purposes). Passover's floating date is a little easier to understand as it encompasses the whole Moses & Pharoah story which had to take a bit longer than 7 days--so these are just the 7 days commemorating the story, not the 7 days that they occured on. Just a Springtime query to tac onto this enduring thread of non-linear time.... If I got it right, Easter is always the first Sunday after the first full moon after the Spring Equinox.....

Umbrae	17 Apr 2003
So if the death and resurrection of J.C. is fixed to the Lunar calendar (first full moon etc.), how come the birth is fixed to the Solar calendar (3 days after the Winter Solstice). Notice both, are three day affairs… Now anyone worth their weight in salt knows that in the ‘Holy Land’ you don’t tend your flocks in the mountains in December, also in an agrarian society, you do not pay taxes in the middle of winter. But my point in recalling this marvey-poo thread…which was bumped by a dear friend, was its focus on how the Celtic Gypsies told time. Cuz here’s the nut…! What is Numerology based on? It all figures on the birth date of old J.C. being accurate. Now that was figured out in 1614 by Kepler…and if you aren’t hep to the Council of Nicia…you really do need to check it out. Do a google on the Nestorians. Where is the all going? I happened to check out another tarot web-site. There was a person who had posted some numerology stuff. Someone else posted that they did it different, and got annihilated – abused soundly – literally beat up. It seems the annihilator stated that numerology was based upon scientific fact (the calendar and our current alphabet system). The annihilated one then raised some serious questions about the Gregorian system, and the un-rectified numerological system. The soundly thrashed poster was apologized to, but their questions were never answered. I read with great interest, and remembered the recently resurrected thread about the ancient Celtic Gypsies, the 24 minutes, and of course The Dead Sea Scrolls (I’m playing their second album now)… I mean seriously…the current Gregorian calendar was based upon Ecclesiastical convenience – not fact. And if it was ‘agree’ that JC was born in 4 B.C. then all numerological studies would be off by five digits (since the year 0 is not counted). Dang… Anybody help me on this one…I sure ain’t gonna post on that other site…I’ve seen how they treat those who question authority…what do you mean you’re out of rope…?

magpie9	17 Apr 2003
I'm not too sure this is help, but....It might be rope.. :D ________________________________________ "....the annihilator stated that numerology was based upon scientific fact (the calendar and our current alphabet system). " Quote from Umbrae _________________________________________ I thought Numerology came from Kabbala (Quabbalah ? I don't transliterate from Hebrew worth a dot or tittle..) which was a mystical study so secretive and restricted and all that you were not allowed to study it if you were not male, married, and over 30. This was to protect you from losing your mind. You had to be sturdy to study Kabbalah. In The Big K each letter of the hebrew alphabet had all kinds of mystical significance, and the numerical order did, and all of this led, not the dance floor, but to ....NUMEROLOGY...... Moses and the Rockers, I understand, were too busy making motzah and trekking through sinai on a family road trip, (..."Are we there yet?" "Compass? What do you mean, you can't find the Compass???" "So much sand, so where's the beach?" "Mommy, mommy, I gotta pee...I can't go behind that bush, it's burning !" "mommy! Jezabel took my Baal, make her stop!") ..................To have much to do with fiddling with numerology. Later, the Rabbis invented it on a slow turesday in Hebron or environs. There was no TV, so it caught on. So all these thousands of years later, dosen't some guy with a deck of Cards call himself E. Levi, and attach numerology and The Big K to the cards? This is essentially correct, right? .....(oh, I dunno, Joe, we could call them Tarot, kinda catchy....slip it in with the game, I'm telling ya, it could get big...) And now I'm hearing the Christians invented Numerology?Did they kinda pick it up on thier little jaunt through the middle east back in 1290 CE or something? Next thing you know, they'll be claiming they invented circumcision..... :eyeroll:

Violet Gargoyle	17 Apr 2003
Umbrae- Re Christmas Date: You might have to turn on lore for that one. Christmas is assigned to Dec 25, but not necessarily because of the birthdate being written down. Yule is not always on the same date either, lunar calendar and all. There is lore that suggest that Jesus was born when the cherry trees were blossoming. I use to have to sing a Christmas song about this when I was a kid in Catholic School. Anyway there are some facts to support this. Historians are thinking now that JC could not have really been born in the winter, since winters in Bethlaham were harsh and shepards would not have been herding at those times, especially during the night. Plus census taking (why the family was there in the first place) in December is not common. There is a better chance that early Christians picked the date to coincide with the pagan equivalant Birth of Sun/Son celebrations. Borrowed some of the traditions there right off the bat to escape notice. The Dead Sea Scrolls cover this with their album "Evolver", its in the song, "No When Man"

The ~ Tarot Ceremony and % accuracy thread was originally posted on 20 Jul 2002 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.