Tarot Prejudice

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 19 Jul 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

divinerguy	19 Jul 2002
In another post, I talked about how some Tarot decks can make you feel a little weird. (Thread ID 5581 - Haindl Tarot). We all have prejudices and beliefs; about cards. querents and ourselves. We can sometimes be a little dogmatic about Tarot and and many other things in life. I personally dislike golf, the Qabalah, cute Tarot decks, and the damned Cosmic Tribe Tarot (waaay too many penises for my comfort level). It is my intention to study some of these things in the coming months, to help me understand them better. I may still dislike them. But if nothing else, at least I will not have prejudged them. Have you challenged your own prejudices?

jema	19 Jul 2002
i got a few: mathemathics and republicans. i alread did challange a few things. the qabalah is one of them, some structure to my spiritual path another. does olives count? i used to hate them but now i love them:) i also challenged predjudices and studied them and then rejected them once more. (my ex-boyfriend fits into the category now when i think about it...)

Lightlike	19 Jul 2002
From what I understand our predjudices and likes and dislikes changes every 7 years because every 7 years all of our cells are totally replaced... I've noticed its somewhat true for me... I'm reaching another 7 year mark (my 21st birthday in August) and many of my likes and dislikes started to change. I think its good to study and learn about things, especially things that you don't like or disagree with because there is always something there for you to learn but if you don't even take a look then you may never enjoy the rewards of the lesson offered. I don't like two of my decks very much, the Celtic Dragon and the Sacred Circle but I hang on to them in case they still have something to teach me even its just to teach me to have an open mind and to be more tolerant.

Liliana	19 Jul 2002
I think I challanged most of mine, still dont like fundalmentalists at all (dont like to be told what to believe) and still dont like the Thoth (I just dont like the art, but Ive fallen in love with numerous Thoth clones, go figure), still dont like sports (Im not athletic and find it boring), but lets see, I do now like coffee and horror movies and roller coasters, hated them awhile ago. So Im moving along I guess hehe :THP

Sam	19 Jul 2002
all sorts of food. chinese, japanese, etc. I used to hate them all, but now i drool when anyone mentions them!

Crystalbeam	26 Jul 2002
Hi, Just wondering if anyone has had a severe reaction to one or more cards. I just received the Robin Woods deck and The Magician card just blows me away. It's like he is looking into my soul. Then my reaction to The Hierophant. He scares the heck out of me. Looks to me like a dead Pope. I guess this last one is because I was born and raised a catholic but have long since moved from it. Yet, I get nothing from the balance of the cards. What's up? I'm a relative beginner and would appreciate any explanations on why, if possible. I really, really dread getting The Hierophant. Thanks

Phoenix	26 Jul 2002
I used to really dislike the Robin Wood Tarot, now I can't wait to get it!

Laurel	26 Jul 2002
When I first saw the Thoth tarot back in the mid `80s, I didn't like it and assumed that Crowley was a Satanist based on what I'd heard from others. I learned to overcome that prejudice and appreciate Thelema as a valid philosophy (even if its not mine). I'm studying the symbolism of the Thoth deck as an re-entrance into my own spiritual life. Right now, I'm working on overcoming my prejudices towards conservative Republicans and the Temple of Set- two ends of the spectrum. :) Overcoming a prejudice towards the "Fool" card and seeing it in a new light was a very recent development. Laurel

jade	26 Jul 2002
usually using the deck assists me in overcoming any pre- judged ideas i may have........although many times i come back to the same space, not particularily liking the deck. sometimes someone comes to me for a reading and i don't want to read for them............i get talked into it, and afterwards, i still wish i hadn't. so now i just follow and listen to that little voice that tells me not to waste my time. :) jade

tigerlily	26 Jul 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Crystalbeam Then my reaction to The Hierophant. He scares the heck out of me. Looks to me like a dead Pope. I guess this last one is because I was born and raised a catholic but have long since moved from it. Well, I guess it's because Robin Wood has soem issues with Christianity. Perhaps she was born and raised catholic and didn't get over it (btw, I was born and raised Catholic, too and I still think it's no excuse for creating such a godawful Hierophant card).

Emily	26 Jul 2002
I usually go for really bright and colourful tarot decks, the Spiral, the Hanson Roberts, Celtic Dragon to name a few but the other day I saw a couple of scans of the Victoria Regina deck - a black and white pen/ink collage deck. I could only find about 6 cards from the deck online but I ordered it, and it came this morning - this deck just about blew me away, it has all the things I usually hate in a deck, its large and hard to handle, there is no colour, and it looks masculine - I love it lol (but can't explain why) - it also reads nicely.

Mermaid	26 Jul 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Crystalbeam I really, really dread getting The Hierophant. Hi Crystalbeam! Is it just the Robin Wood hierophant that freaks you out, or is it the hierophant in general? ;) I'm asking because I use the RW and I used to really hate the hierophant too. He seemed really negative, hidebound and manipulative. Then I saw a different deck that put a different spin on the card. (Can't remember which deck, sorry). Instead of calling it the hierophant, it was called 'the luminary'. The picture was of an old man and a young boy on a mountain top, watching the sun rise together. The description of the card said that it was about traditional wisdom and customs being passed on to the next generation. So instead of showing controlling, destructive traditions being upheld, the card showed constructive wisdom being passed on. That kind of helped me get a handle on the positive aspects of the hierophant.

AmounrA	26 Jul 2002
I used to hate christians, I loathed with the vengence of a million arrows......even jesus. Now I have mellowed and no longer hate them, I see them now , more as some weird hypocritical anal cult. It still defies my mind that so many western leaders are christian...these are meant to be intelligent people......how to they fall for the non sense which is christianity? I have also mellowed in my veiws of 'jesus'...I see him more now as a rebel freedom fighter...who has been hyped up out of all proportion. [If he was the son of god, and could do miricles....why a donkey?...why not a Lamborgini ? :-) When it comes to tarot..I have an unexplainable loathing for the rider waite deck...I just hate it , and I don't feel a mellowing coming there ....

catboxer	26 Jul 2002
Very interesting...I have a dislike of the Rider/Waite also, but for different reasons I think. I actually like the pictures, as I find them rather pleasant and charming, especially the Universal edition. I dislike them because this was the pack that did away with pips, and caused people to begin to lose sight of the fact that a tarot deck is 22 trumps and four queens added to a 52-card playing card set. Playing cards are a huge component of the history of both tarot and non-tarot cartomancy. Other things I don't like include brussels sprouts, pit bulldogs, suburban attack vehicles (sav's), so-called "reality" t.v., and amplified music. I love the study of history. I have always disliked occultism, and my dislike of it grows stronger with time. It seems to be inversely proportional to what I'm able to learn of history. Oh yeah...and I really love Marseilles decks and old Italian decks.

RedWood	26 Jul 2002
I do not like the Thoth Deck..Initially I did not like the images..got it anyway (it was cheap also hehe) cuz so many people raved about it..Still didn't appeal to me..Then i got some background on the author ..that just made it worse..So i have traded it away and don't regret..i am actually relieved..Divinerguy..totally agree with you on the Cosmic Tribe...just not going to happen with that deck..

the hermit	27 Jul 2002
Quote: Originally posted by tigerlily Well, I guess it's because Robin Wood has soem issues with Christianity. Perhaps she was born and raised catholic and didn't get over it (btw, I was born and raised Catholic, too and I still think it's no excuse for creating such a godawful Hierophant card). I don't know... I kind of like the Robin Wood Hierophant. Kind of reminds me of the current pope. Course I think he HAS been dead for several years and that the cardinals had disney make them an automatronic pope for public display. It's just that now it's beginning to malfunction and the head sort of leans now, and the cardinals don't know what to do... disney wants too much to fix it. And yes, I was raised catholic and oh, by the way, molested by a priest and then sent to live with my grandparents because the bishop felt I was a 'disruptive' influence to the local parish. But hey... I got over it, mostly. :D Please don't anyone be offended by my twisted view of life. But on a lighter note, I really don't like Robin's Lovers... Don't really know why. It's not that they're naked (at least I don't think so). I do think the rest of the deck is great... and in spite of my feelings about the Lovers, the deck works well for me. I really like her Hermit... his smile reminds me of my grandpa. It's like there's someone just below and out of our sight who the hermit is really happy to see reaching the top of his mountain. It's the way grandpa used to smile at me when I'd done well in his eyes. I also think the Magician is great, love his smile and the antlered headpiece.

tigerlily	27 Jul 2002
Oh, hermit, I really didn't think of the pedophile priests when I wrote my response. Still, if that's what was bugging her, she could have created "a" priest of any religious group, or even a bard - because they were also preserving and teaching the knowledge of former generations. Heck, even a generic "teacher" would have done! This card is the reason that I don't buy this otherwise wonderful deck. It's this single, disruptive card.

Maan	27 Jul 2002
Just a little story about the Robin Wood hierophant. I really did not like it at all. But i love the deck so much i kept using it. And then i did a past live reading. It was a really intence reading and a lot of thinks got clear to me. In this powerful spread the hierophant was present in the postition that stands for how you died in that life......... The whole spread told me enough about being a strong women alone and oviously killed by the inquisition. So i finally was happy with here image of the Hierophant couse the spread would never have made sence if i had seen the hierophant as a sweet and wise teacher and not as a unforgiving bishop.

Starfish	27 Jul 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Maan Just a little story about the Robin Wood hierophant. I really did not like it at all. But i love the deck so much i kept using it. And then i did a past live reading. It was a really intence reading and a lot of thinks got clear to me. In this powerful spread the hierophant was present in the postition that stands for how you died in that life......... The whole spread told me enough about being a strong women alone and oviously killed by the inquisition. So i finally was happy with here image of the Hierophant couse the spread would never have made sence if i had seen the hierophant as a sweet and wise teacher and not as a unforgiving bishop. Wow, Maan! I can see how the Hierophant would now make sense to you. As for me, I'm indifferent to the Hierophant - he just looks stern and condemning, but not frightening. He kind of reminds me of the Monsenior that married my husband and I. Upon finding out that my husband was no religion and never baptised (he was born during the hippie heyday) he nodded brusquely when we told him DH's non-religious denomination and said "Heathen" and wrote that down in his notes! DH still chuckles about that and teases me that he's really a Druid (well, he IS of Celtic descent). :TPW Starfish

kayne	27 Jul 2002
Kiama helped me overcome my dislike of the Robin Wood and I was surprised so many others have found this too... My biggie that I would like to challenge is decks with pips instead of scenes. I would like a really traditional old medieval deck (so unlike me :P) to add to my collection and then I would really like to learn to use it in readings...

Lee	27 Jul 2002
Quote: Originally posted by the hermit But on a lighter note, I really don't like Robin's Lovers... Don't really know why. I agree about the Robin Wood Lovers card. To me they seem insufferably smug. But that's just how I see it! :) -- Lee

the hermit	27 Jul 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Lee I agree about the Robin Wood Lovers card. To me they seem insufferably smug. But that's just how I see it! :) -- Lee YES! that's it Lee... They do look waaaaay too smug don’t they. It’s like… “we’re naked… and we’re cool”. They aren't showing any of the emotions the other cards do, the smiles, the frowns, except of course for the automatronics Hierophant/pope--who I think is perfect--dictating spirituality :D But I think maybe my catholic upbringing might be influencing me just a teensy bit on the Hierophant. What do you folks think? :)

Sally Gardens	28 Jul 2002
I have to admit that I was a bit distracted by how the male lover was, um, somewhat larger-than-life. :D The couple also looks too stylized and posed, like a couple of models advertising a nudist/naturist resort or something.

VGimlet	29 Jul 2002
My tarot dislikes - I didn't like decks with pips, collage decks, black and white decks, or photographic decks. And I didn't like the Hierophant, or the Emperor. However I love the Rock & Roll deck, and the Victoria Regina. I am seriously thinking about adding both the Voyager deck, and at least one Marseille deck to my collection, and learning to read with both of them (eventually). And I know why I don't like either of those cards - I've never been very interested in formal religion, or being told what to do. So, I have enjoyed being able to expand my ideas about their meanings.

catlin	30 Jul 2002
Hm, do some of you recall my words about the Cannon Reed Tarot of the Witches? I still do not like the muscle guys in the green panties but they do not disturb me that much as before. It reads nicely for me and even for others. I try not to have prejudice but I have to admit that patriarchal monotheist fundamental religions drive me crazy.

Crystalbeam	11 Aug 2002
Thank you all so much for the information on my problems with the Magician and the Hierophant. I will definitely try some of the suggestions because I basically like the deck but these two cards just seem to block any intuition I have. I'll try much harder but if it doesn't ease up, new cards for me. I'm sorry I didn't answer sooner but 3 of my grandkids will be living with me for the next school year and I was kinda busy. Anyway, thanks so much. Just love Tarot Forum and have learned so much.

cyan	17 Aug 2002
one of my favorite decks, (although i will admit there is not anywhere near enough to it, i just really like the art) is Londa. When I first got it i really was unnerved by the Knight of Swords. He slouches on his zebra's back holding a sword by the blade next to the hilt in his right hand while the tip rests on his opposite shoulder. it looks as if he might cut his own throat. And there is a bloody dagger in his other hand. He looks dangerous and reckless to a fault. He comes up uncomfortably often when i use the deck and i finally figured out it is because i myself am apt to rush boldly into into situations without fully considering the consequences. and, i quite frequently, wind up falling over my sword as a result. So, i have gotten over my prejudice towards the Knight and now regard him as a lesson and a warning. I also have problems with illogical people who think that if they feel strongly enough about something then it must be "THE TRUTH!" but that is probably because i am an Aquarian and tend to be uneasy around highly emotional people.

Gerbear	21 Aug 2002
I don't like tha fact that humanity has advanced to the stage of a clever animal in the last 10,000 years. Civilization has cultured the weak, propagating many types of lunacy. A higher level exists, but few enter into this realm. Perhaps it's time to "cull" the hordes. opportunities lost !!

divinerguy	21 Aug 2002
Gerbear - I'm not sure what you mean by your post. If it means what I think it means, it makes me uncomfortable.

Gerbear	21 Aug 2002
Quote: Originally posted by divinerguy Gerbear - I'm not sure what you mean by your post. If it means what I think it means, it makes me uncomfortable. I have no idea what you are thinking, however the quotations marks around the cull should have eased any fears about any advocated actions. Tarot is symbolic knowledge of a sort. We are subject to a plethora of symbols that drive us towards mass comsumption, and many other ingrained desires. If we "cull" the species, by selectively monitoring symbols and enlightening people about how they are exposed, and the effects of that exposure, than we can get beyond the material focus of all of humanity. Sorry that I wasn't clear enough in the post, about what was in my head.

Laurel	21 Aug 2002
Whenever a "We" decides that "we" know what is right or wrong for all of humanity and should take on the task of removing "THEM" who are not "We" --- "We" have become facist victims of our own hubris and not personally worth my time, other than for me to state very clearly that I am not one of "We" nor will I allow "We" to victimize me or mine. The only soul any human being (or group) has the right to judge, cleanse and purge of dross is their own. There are no good symbols or bad symbols or useless symbols- there are only symbols which are personally meaningful and symbols which give meaning to others. Laurel

Jewel	21 Aug 2002
My tarot prejudices past and present ... hmmmm ... Raider Waite decks with pips, black and white decks, photographic decks, collage decks and the 4 of pentacles! Progress report ~giggles~: 1. Raider Waite - boungt and gave it away once, bought it again ... tried really hard to like it ... could not master my dislike so I gave it away again. I now have the Universal Waite and I like it enough to keep it, use it for comparitive study purporses but that is about it. But that is progress is it not? *LOL* 2. Decks with pips - As my knowledge has increased over the last 8 years I no longer have an aversion or dislike to them. In fact I am sort of at the point where I prefer what I call "moody minors" (like in the Thoth, Gill and Cosmic Tribe for example) ... not pips yet, but not fully illustrated. 3. Black & White decks - I have really tried to like them ... they are just too drab for me. I need color. Not sure I will ever overcome this prejudice. I bought and IMMEDIATELY traded the Victoria Regina to a fabulous home where it could be loved. The things that bothered me the most about the deck were the guns and the lack of color. 4. Photographic and collage decks - I still do not like them for the most part, but I will say that the Cosmic Tribe really changed my view on them. This deck is the most user friendly tarot deck I absolutly love the deck (haven't even noticed the penises in months! *LOL*). I am not sure where I am with this one yet. Perhaps I am a little more flexible, but still tend to prefer other decks over photographic or collage decks. 5. 4 of Pentacles - thanks to the Cosmic Tribe (again) I have finally overcome my prejudice of this card and actually sort of like it now.

Logiatrix	30 Aug 2002
photo art, dark tarots, violent images... me no likey! it is true, though--as posted earlier in this thread--that even the tarots we don't like can teach us something.

nina	24 Sep 2002
Hello, what a relief to find I'm not the only one who doesn't think Rider-Waite is the best deck ever. The images have almost no intuitive or emotional impact on me at all. Also, one of the first decks I got was the Cagliostro- and I was unpleasantly surprised to find he associated the water signs with the suit of swords- this made NO sense to me and I still suspect a misprint. Maybe I feel a little bit more upset than I should being a water sign myself, but Water=Swords doesn't make any sense to me. -Nina

Cerulean	25 Sep 2002
I'm trying to overcome not understanding certain past styles of reading the cards and perhaps astrological teachings...I may be trying to use the Caligstro to puzzle this out. The Caligstro is an unusual deck to me because it seems to show a transition in tarot thinking that is hard for me to grasp. The astrological system seems similar to information posted on Paul's Supertarot.com site, where the 12 astrological houses of the zodiac are further subdivided until each card of a 78 card deck is assigned a small period of time, perhaps about 10 days? I may be wrong, but I may have read this is also an aspect of a past Golden Dawn teaching? It's certainly not the astrology court and suit assignment that I've seen in Rider-Waite style decks where a Gemini woman might be represented by the Queen of swords. The meanings of the Caligstro cards also seem have a fortune-telling bent that reminds me of earlier (1870 style) Etteilla style decks or Madame Lenormand or playing card meanings. I came across a short summary of reading cards in the French style by A.E. Waite around 1910 or 1912, when the Caligstro was published. Step by step, slowly I turn... Mari_H...

Ravenswing	25 Sep 2002
i have problems with-- photo-collage. i sometime have problems sorting. inconsistent decks-- gendron for example. the connolly deck-- in particular the ten of swords and the re-named majors. the fool stuck in the middle of the majors. themed decks that forget they're tarot. btw-- i forget who or when but someone told me they saw the robin wood's lovers as the king of wands running off with the page of swords.... ravenswing

Macavity	25 Sep 2002
Hehe, I think some of the Robin Wood imagery e.g. the Lovers reminds me of the dreaded "Joy of sex" type book that many of us may hide somewhere? ;) Blinkin' Hippies! (joking) On a more positive note the High Priestess is to me really quite LOVELY - reminds me of my first "Hippy-Chick" girlfriend. Such double standards, but such fond memories :) At first I thought the RWS deck artwork to be quite crude and considered instantly getting a "Universal"... but it has grown on me immensely and I see it as charming in it's quirkiness. The Marseille type decks (similarly) seemed quite "playing card" yucky to me - INITIALLY, but now I really want a good one! Must all be in the eye of the beholder - I wouldn't have been very attracted to the Crowely-Thoth with descriptions like "Babylon drinking the blood of saints"(?) but when someone described this as "tweaking the membrane seperating parallel universes", Heck I wanna see her do that! Then the occasional anomalies in "Egyptian" decks irritate - As in where the heck did "Typhon" come from in the Egyptian Pantheon - but I have to concede this is true to the original standard? Finally, as a cat lover, I've had rather mixed feelings about Tarot of the Cat People (well, the "people" anyway) but then again I've finally been "driven" to get one. These were the first deck images that drew me towards Tarot... :D Mac

Alex	25 Sep 2002
There is a fine line between prejudice and dislike. I don't like onions and I don't like the cosmic tribe Tarot because I find it a bit presumptuous. I'm fine with the penises though. I have prejudice against a mystical attitude that fails to acknowledge the existence of false connections. I have prejudice against "dumb" people, people who use false arguments to defend a cause and conservative people who care more about their principles than the happiness of others. I could go on and on. I have many prejudices. Many dislikes. My bests Alex. Quote: Originally posted by divinerguy We all have prejudices and beliefs; about cards. querents and ourselves. We can sometimes be a little dogmatic about Tarot and and many other things in life. I personally dislike golf, the Qabalah, cute Tarot decks, and the damned Cosmic Tribe Tarot (waaay too many penises for my comfort level). It is my intention to study some of these things in the coming months, to help me understand them better. I may still dislike them. But if nothing else, at least I will not have prejudged them. Have you challenged your own prejudices?

The Tarot Prejudice thread was originally posted on 19 Jul 2002 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.