What do you do when you're wrong?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 14 Aug 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Rhiannon	14 Aug 2002
I did a search and tried to find a thread about what happens when you are just flat out WRONG in a reading. Haven't found anything yet... and since I'm lazy ;) I decided to just go ahead and post a new one. What do you do if nothing you say to your querent makes any sense? If they tell you that you are just completely and totally wrong? R :)

jema	14 Aug 2002
it has happend a few times for me. all those times i just swept up all the cards again and told them that i was sorry but it just wasn't working today. perhaps it was just not meant to be, perhaps they need another reader or perhaps they just don't need a reading at all. in all the cases this has happend the client has been extremly sceptical and not giving any feedback at all. just kind of sitting there with tight lips and a "no" attitude. in one case the client was more or less pushed into having a reading by friends, in another she just didn't like my reading and in a third he wanted a reading just to make fun of it all.

Helruna	14 Aug 2002
Wow - you seem to have had some nasty clients, Jema! Well, perhaps in this cases they simply "denied" and refused anything you had to say - not even taking it into consideration. I haven't had such a reading yet, well, one reading was kind of that. I did an online reading and I send her the reading and she emailed me back that it was kind of nice but did not answer her question. The thing is, I am working in a group of readers, and I posted this particular reading to the message board and the other readers said I addressed the question, referring back to it all the time. Well, my opinion is, that sometimes like you already mentioned, Jema, it seems that the client/querent simply does not need a reading, or at that present day it might not be the "right time" for them to know about this issue they were asking on. I once came across a similar question and the theory went that if the querent/client is not honest or serious about it, the cards will show this. So, perhaps if the people coming to you and the reading simple does not seem to make any sense at all - it could be too that they have some issue towards this subject - but this is only a wild guess of mine. Like I mentioned, so far, I did not really have this case. I think, I would try to ask them what they see in the cards and if they simply won't work with me - I think I did the same and simply put the cards back together and let them go their ways. I am looking forward to hear the opinion of others, as I think this is an interesting question - and how to deal with such a situation. BB, Helruna

Keslynn	14 Aug 2002
Interesting question, Rhiannon. I have had some readings that were wrong simply because I was so new at it. I did a reading for a friend about her job that seemed positive if she followed the path the cards indicated. She later had some complications, despite being an excellent worker, and was forced to quit. However, when I went back and looked at the spread, it said that. It was my inexperience that caused me to interpret it in a way that was a little "off course." I hadn't yet learned to pull the cards together more. I'm still working on that. As far as unreceptive people, I've only had one of those. But now she keeps bragging about me. Apparently I was getting things right despite her lack of communication. lol And she had made me so insecure when I was reading for her and she sat there with a stone face! I went to a tarot reader who was giving me some information that was a little off. I don't think it was a problem with her interpretations at all. I just think it was an off day for me or her. The vibe wasn't quite right. end ramble ;) :TQS Kes

Minderwiz	14 Aug 2002
Well also as a beginner I recognise that the main reason why I'm likely to be wrong is me. At the moment I'll warn querents that I'm a novice and I prefer if possible to discuss what each card means with them - I'm learning from them as much as them getting a reading from me. If I had subjects like Jema's 3 I think I would do much as she did. If the subject/querent isn't willing to participate in the reading then there is no point in doing it and the reading will be wrong - because the querent's question or issue is not genuine. My main area is Astrology and I've recently been reading a little on Horary Astrology - answering a querent's question much like Tarot. There are a lot of rules to decide if the chart is fit to read and many of these rules appear to be designed with 'rogue' querent's in mind - people out to cause mischief rather than seeking to ask a genuine question. I don't know if anyone has come across similar 'considerations before judgement' relating to Tarot. Minderwiz

Umbrae	14 Aug 2002
Depends… There are two scenarios. 1) The cards say nothing. I do not get a thing. I pick up the cards and apologies. 2) The cards say a lot and the sitter looks at me as if I am from another planet because nothing makes any sense to them. I tell them to take the pad and pencil (supplied) and start taking notes because it will very soon make a lot of sense to them. Without fail, it does.

truthsayer	14 Aug 2002
the times that i've been wrong have been influenced by on due to: 1. the querent not taking it serious or wanting me to be wrong. 2. i wasn't in sync w/ the deck. in which case, i change to a deck i am in sync w/. if i'm still off, no reading today! sorry. 3. i was reading in a group and i got overwhelmed by the number of ppl gathered around me. too many vibes flooding in. 4. i'm tired or not feeling well or not feeling safe w/ this Q. 5. i'm not comfortable w/ something about the environment even tho the Q and deck are fine. maybe the water spigot is dripping and the noise is aggravating. distractions like cats "meditating" literally on my cards! children in the background or at the same scene. 6. i can't read for my mother anymore but i think that's b/c she's always chosen the hard path instead of the easier one and i don't want to feel blamed. 7. the Q feels psychicly intrusive. for example, talking and asking too many questions while i'm trying to focus or feeling like s/he is trying to "get into my head". in such situations, i see if something can be done to make the situation tolerable. if not i know it's not my day for reading. actually, i prefer it if someone plays "stone face" w/ me as long as i know s/he is open to me being right. i don't want info from the Q that will influence my reading of the cards in any way. i focus on the cards and don't look up b/c i might notice body language. speech also gives off information just from the tone of a voice. quiet is best or my results are skewed.

Laurel	14 Aug 2002
This isn't a personal attack on anyone or their beliefs. In my opinion, tarot isn't particularly useful for divination in the limited sense someone is using it unless the user happens to have oracular ability that would probably manifest itself in some other way than tarot if the diviner had no cards. What tarot does is sort of akin to therapy. Excellent psychics can make "cold readings" work because they are psychic and are being psychic at the time of the reading. Not all of us have that gift. Certainly most of us can't turn it on or off like water in the sink or have these earth-shattering bouts of clairvoyance. If we were ~that~ psychic, we'd go out and win the lottery and not be secretaries and lawyers and school teachers and garbage men. :) Tarot is a way of starting a dialogue that lets the possibilities unfold and how we interpret each card is affected by what we know and think we know. It gives us a way to think about and say the things that need to be addressed. Laurel

Alex	14 Aug 2002
in absolutely everything we do. I think the best thing when we make a mistake is to recognize it, apologize and then try to fix it as possible. However, it's always a good thing to tell other people in advance, that we can make mistakes. People have to excercize their best judgment when making their decisions based on a reading. There is also something about how to ask questions that people who are trained in science know well about: certain questions like "Am I going to heaven after I die?" carry two premises, and these are, there exists something called "heaven", and there exists something as "life after life". The premise proving false will automatically make wrong ANY answer you give using the cards. It has nothing to do with your skills as a reader, and it has nothing to do with the cards or whether the Tarot works or not: it has to do with the fact that you based your reading on a false premise. Therefore, in order to avoid certain mistakes, we have to be careful to ask questions that can be answered and that do not depend on assumptions about things you, as a reader, have no way to access the veracity of. Conversely, if we make a mistake because we were lead to accept certain assumtions as true, when they were not , then I don't think we have to apologize.

RedWood	14 Aug 2002
Good idea Umbrae..with giving pad and paper...

jema	15 Aug 2002
i do so agree with Lauras stance here. which makes those "failed" readings really hopeless. i do see myself more as a tarot-advicer/therapist then a tarot diviner. i always tell my client i cannot tell their fortunes but that i can help them find hidden patterns in their lives and find ways to break free from them if that is indeed what they want. but to do that i need cooperation from the client. i find that i do indeed read bodylanguage etc but i do not see this as cheating. it is all coming together to make me able to guide this person. i am somewhat psychic - but if is more of a "flash of inspiration" thing then something i can really control what i do in a reading is to discover reasons, patterns and reoccuring cycles, i can see how a client is locked in a self-abusive behaviour and i can try with their help to see why and with the cards help we can piece together a solution. i also find that many many times the spread will not make sense right away, one has to wait it out. but with a reluctant client that is just not an option. they came to me thinking i would tell them what would happen. and when i tell them instead of what they must do or what to expect if they do nothing - they are deeply disappointed at times. in those cases i never charge. so most times that i fail - i fail their expectations more then anything else. of course i do sometimes have these plain "off" readings that are totally my fault. (but they are rather rare) reading my first reply now i can see how someone would think i thought i am never in the wrong that it is always the clients fault. it is not so. i do mistakes all the time. but in general they don't really mess up a whole reading. i might be off on one little detail - very seldom on a whole spread. reading on-line is of course a lot more tricky since you read "blind" and with my approach to tarot-readings that is a challenge. as a reader for the worldtarot readers online i had only one very negative feedback - and that was from a lady who was a tarot-reader herself. she called my reading a "gypsy-spread" funny how we remember the bad things so much longer then the good...

Marion	15 Aug 2002
Some wonderful answers here. I would also like to expand on Alex's post as well. Unless it is a general reading, or daily spread, or something along those lines, I spend a moderate amount of time on the question itself. It doesn't matter if it is for myself or someone else. If it is someone else, I don't ask a lot of questions, I just keep encouraging them to work it around until it is the question that they want to ask. For myself, I just think about it while I shuffle. The clearer the question the better the reading I find. I had a lady ask me about finances and while we talked it turned out that she was really concerned because her husband had made some bad business decisions and jeopardized their financial picture (she was in her sixties). Then she said plaintively, "And I really wonder if I am going to end up alone". Eventually we framed the right question.

Kath	15 Aug 2002
I once did an email reading for a girl and she told me that nothing I had said made any sense to her. I apologised that my reading was 'off'. But she asked me for a second reading, which puzzled me somewhat :) Sometimes a reader can just be having a bad day. Other times the querent could be in denial about what you are telling them. Cheers Kath

Alex	15 Aug 2002
too. And for the ones who have not been in therapy: the practitioner will not tell you whether you should or should not do this or that, based on any amount of information; he will not decide for you or advice in that direct way. It's a way to getting to now oneself better, and Tarot is particularly good to help people get to know themselves better. When that is the foccus of a reading, there's not much room to go wrong. For the ones who believe in chance and will as elements that play a role in making the future, however, it's easy to see how many details in the net of circumstances can change the course of the most predictable future. A man I knew had 1/2 of his liver taken off because of a cancer. His doctor predicted for him 6 months of painful life. He lived 10 years and died of a heart attack. He not only refused medication but the diet he was told to follow. It's obviously one of these cases in which some very important factor changed the course of things, and the Tarot does account for that too, when it's seen as a means of giving advice rather than telling people what's gonna happen. Quote: Originally posted by Laurel Tarot is a way of starting a dialogue that lets the possibilities unfold and how we interpret each card is affected by what we know and think we know. It gives us a way to think about and say the things that need to be addressed. Laurel

Mojo	15 Aug 2002
You can be wrong? Interesting concept.

Rhiannon	15 Aug 2002
I love you, Mojo. R :)

Laurel	15 Aug 2002
That's a really good point about doctors and predictions. If a doctor makes a prognosis based on the information he has, and later is proven wrong after further tests... does that mean he's obviously a quack and charlaten? How many times has the weatherman predicted rain- and its been sunny all day? Nope, don't trust meteorologists. Stock market analysts have been taken by surprise more than once because situations they could not have been prepared for happened suddenly. For that matter, all analysts of every branch of science are sometimes wrong and nothing less or more can be expected of analysts of the psyche and soul. In my opinion, in most cases where analysis fails, including tarot, its because of a lack of key information. Sometimes, it just happens to the best of us, including Greenspan. *g* Laurel

Keslynn	15 Aug 2002
I like your approach, ALex. I know that Joan Bunning gave a lot of explanation on how to form a good question, but I think many authors neglect that area. You make an excellent point, one that I will have to remind myself of when I read. I do make assumptions sometimes, and that's not always a good idea. Thank goodness I usually only read for myself. :TQS Kes

tigerlily	15 Aug 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Rhiannon What do you do if nothing you say to your querent makes any sense? If they tell you that you are just completely and totally wrong? R :) Well, I'm crushed for a day or so ;) Then I go to my mother and make her give me a pep talk ... Seriously: since I'm human, I'm fallible. I can't be always right, so there is the possibility that some readings are truly wrong. There are of course other scenarios possible: a) querent doesn't accept what I'm saying (for whatever reason) - either they don't like the facts or don't like the way I see the facts b) querent has another self-image or another way of seeing the world and simply doesn't recognize him/herself or the scenario I'm describing (this is different from a) in that this time, it's not a conscious decision) c) especially when it comes to predictions, people are often sceptical that things will really develop that way. We all make extrapolations all the time based on experience and the direction things have taken so far. So if my experience tells me one thing and this tarot reader tells me something else, guess who I'm gonna believe? I don't do Tarot professionally and I don't do it to be "right". Of course it boosts my confidence when I'm right, because I don't consider myself psychic most of the time and those flashes of inspiration are much too rare for my taste ;) But when I'm wrong, well - can't avoid that sometimes, can I?

MysticRose	15 Aug 2002
I was just reading this thread this morning mulling over all the comments. I have never really been out and out wrong but I have had "hostile" clients. Well it's been awhile since I had any so I guess I was due... it just happened! Someone told me I'm the psychic when I asked a simple question... lol. They hadn't given me any information at all and I just was not in the mood today so I told them I'm not God and that perhaps they should find someone else to do their reading that they can connect with better. He asked me what I meant by that so I said I was feeling hostility and frankly I didn't like it. It felt so good!!! Sometimes I put up with that as part of the field but no more! It just felt too too good to send him on his way. Well I just had to share since I just read thru everyone elses experiences this morning. Cheers! Sky

MysticRose	15 Aug 2002
PS... re-reading my above statements and I didn't mean I'm never wrong, I'm just not usually all the way wrong. I do fudge details now and then. Like if someone has died, I describe what they looked like when they were 30 instead of the bald head they had just before they died. details details... sigh. well, thought i better fix that statement before someone else did! Love & Light!

Marion	16 Aug 2002
Well, I don't know about you SkyDancer but personally I get something wrong once a week, just to keep my karma working properly :D :D

Alex	16 Aug 2002
sometimes people just have different criteria for calling on a "mistake". It's important to understand that not only the querrent may be in denial, but the reader too: denial of one's own imperfection as a reader. I had similar experience when I was seing a therapist. Every time the practitioner said to me something I didn't particularly connect with, he would say, I was in "denial". It took me a while to understand that the word "denial" really meant in those situations. It's very frustrating to work with someone who cannot admit his/her mistakes.

Hummingbird	16 Aug 2002
Along the lines of what Jema said, the only times readings have ever gone WRONG were when the querent was skeptical, and/or had a PROVE IT TO ME attitude.

isthmus nekoi	16 Aug 2002
This has only happened to me twice, but when there was something wrong w/the querent/reader/tarot relationship, the spread would reflect that problem instead of giving a reading on the querent themselves... I once read for a boy who was curious. His sister, although very religious, said that she was fine w/tarot so I let her sit and watch the reading. The crossing cards of the c/c were The High Priestess and I think 7 or 9 of Wands. This made no sense to the querent, and I had a very difficult time trying to piece the reading together, even though he was being very receptive and open minded.... Basically, I wasn't hitting on *anything*. Later, my sister told me that the girl had denounced tarot behind my back, believing it was morally wrong etcetera, and I realized the cross was trying to alert me to the defensive energy coming from the girl, even though she was only observing! That reading was very much on my mind the next time I touched the deck. I split it to shuffle and in one hand was the HP, 7/9 of Wands in the other. It was like my deck was trying to remind me: think things through before you offer to read to a querent, and never ever ever put us in that kind of situation again!

jade	17 Aug 2002
i have always believed that if i'm totally off-base then the querent shouldn't have a reading at this time. although, years ago, i was reading for some people in their basement. they had all their dad's stuff all over the place........he died years before and they were finally cleaning out his stuff.......my cards started reading from years past! i couldn't get them to read present, so i left and i ended getting a new deck.......it never read properly for me again, and then my house was robbed about 8 months later and they took the deck! in light, jade

Rhiannon	17 Aug 2002
I know my biggest problem when someone tells me I'm wrong is that it's a blow to my ego. I'm still not sure why this happens when it does, it could be my relationship with a certain deck. It could be the question was not formed properly. It could be that I'm not thinking clearly that day. I think the first 2 are especially likely. Whatever the reason, I just wanted to see how every one else deals with it. I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels like "WHAT??? YOU'RE telling ME that I'M wrong?????" LOL, then once that fit passes we become logical again! What I don't like is that it hurts my confidence a little and I feel it makes that person reluctant to come to me for a reading again. The only way to "get over it" for me is to continue doing readings and believing in myself. I usually bounce right back. Thanks for your input guys! Keep it coming! R :)

napaea	18 Aug 2002
jade .......my cards started reading from years past! i couldn't get them to read present, so i left and i ended getting a new deck.......it never read properly for me again, and then my house was robbed about 8 months later and they took the deck! sorry to hear (read) your house was robbed. i'm also sorry you lost your deck, for this reason... i think you discredit your self about the reading. the cards weren't picking up the information, YOU were, the cards are just there as a tool for your unconscious. YOU had the ability to read all this information from them, and maybe that deck was just for that, reading people's issues from the past, or readings concerning those who have passed on. too bad you don't have the deck to experiment with and see...sorry about the frustrating reading for the people too. * i agree with so many of the posts here. * i have never been really off on a reading with a Q. present (though i have only done like 10) * i did have a time where i sat forever and couldn't get anything from the cards. i took the same cards and shuffled them and laid them into a different spread and voila! the reading was phenom! * i have read people that i was totally off on over the net. i wonder about this: sometimes someone needs a reading so bad, maybe it comes through first. one time i went with a friend to a psychic (doesn't use any medium for readings, just vibrational ) the psychic kept telling my friend stuff that didn't make any sense to her AT ALL. well then she asked for both our rings and discovered she was reading ME! i didn't have enough money for a reading, but wanted one SO bad, she was picking up my stuff. so she read me first for free to shut me up. i wonder if sometimes, when the Q has no connection to the reading, maybe the reading belongs to someone else. maybe at that point you should say "well, write this down, it may be for a friend of yours" and then proceed to try to read them again. if it doesn't work then, call it a day. * also agree with people who's intention is to block you. i mean, even if you're psychic, there's only so much you can do, man! * i totally think it's appropriate to say that maybe the energy isn't right. sometimes when people are overly emotionally, want a certain outcome or maybe even having a lot of astrological issues, the reading won't be as accurate because of the confluence (?) of events * other times, i think we may be getting the correct overview, but describing the wrong angle. you know how a card, say the 9 of swords, can mean something - illness, depression, etc. maybe we discuss with the client the wrong part of the card. it may not be depression so much as over critical attitude toward oneself. maybe not illness, but tension in the body. know what i mean? this is where i agree with others, that it is SO important for the client to respond, "i don't understand" or "that doesn't sound like me" so you can talk about the card and find out waht it is saying. oooops, blah blah blah

Laurel	18 Aug 2002
I have always heard (and I'm willing to believe it) that one of the biggest problems of being really, truly naturally psychic, is learning how to "tune in to a specific channel with all the background noise". I'll stick to being mildy intuitive by comparison but not having to sort through a lot of images and emotions from everyone in the room who's unconsciously emoting.

Daisymoon3	19 Aug 2002
I find if I am wrong, it is usually because I should not have done the reading in the state of mind I was in. I would apologize and offer to try again when I am more comfortable with doing the reading. Sometimes, though, people think I'm way off and it ends up being completely right. Example: A friend of mine twisted my arm to get me to do a reading for her. She was having man trouble. I didn't want to do it, because I already knew things were not going to look good. I tried to frame my responses in the form of questions: "Hmmm. Does he know anyone of an air sign? She seems to be a trouble-maker. Maybe someone at work?" "There is deception going on, here. A lot of it. Do you feel he is being honest?" "Is your son having health problems?" She was angry with me. She didn't talk to me for two weeks. Then she came back. Her husband was having an affair with a girl at work. Her son had just been diagnosed with diabetes. She apologized. I hate doing those kinds of readings for friends. Especially when I get that shaky, cold feeling as I'm laying out the cards. Sometimes I wish I WERE wrong.

Hummingbird	20 Aug 2002
I have to add that I once had an off expereince with a woman who was from another country. It just did not work....perhaps because there was nothing for me to relate to? I dunno.

Mojo	20 Aug 2002
No offense folks (uh-oh, whenever he says that he's sure to offend someone) but you guys can come up with some pretty creative excuses. I got some news for ya (sorry, it's my Ace of Swords nature): You're not wrong because of a skeptical querent, or because they just weren't meant to get a reading at that time, or because you and your deck aren't getting along, or because the querent was in denial (although most of them usually are), or because of any other rationalization you can come up with. You're wrong because you didn't sell it right. Of course, actually believing that you can be right or wrong is probably half the problem. I made a joke earlier in this thread about not believing in being wrong, but in actuality, it's how I feel. You see, to me Tarot isn't about what I tell a querent, it's about HOW I tell it to them. Looking at pictures printed on a deck of cards isn't going to tell me what these people had for dinner last night, much less what's going to happen to their love life next year. When I do a reading for somone, it's a gamble. They're putting down their money (either figuratively or literally) betting that I can't convince them that I can predict the future. I'm betting that I can piece together a story from the cards and my own intuition that is either convincing enough that they can easily see how it applies to their life, or entertaining enough that they just don't care if it applies or not. If I win, they pay. If they win, I walk away with nothing (I've often shared in these forums that my clients don't pay until after they've received their reading). In all the years I've been reading for money, I've only had three people decide not to pay. And two of them were just because they were cheapskates. Does this mean that my readings are always "right" or that what I tell them really applies to their life? I don't know. And frankly, I don't really care. I have fun playing the game and I make money at it. I don't need to be right. Of course, in order for this to work for you, you need to be absolutely convinced that you know the game better than they do. Confidence is essential. If a querent senses that you don't believe what you're telling them, they won't believe it either. And they'll tell you you're wrong. You just need to be resolute enough to know that you can't be wrong. Please don't take this to mean that I think my way is the only way to approach Tarot. Sure, people can use it for meditation or connecting with their spirit entities or for whatever they want. But if you read for money, you're participating in the ancient roots of Tarot as a method of gambling, whether you acknowledge it or not.

The What do you do when you're wrong? thread was originally posted on 14 Aug 2002 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.