Binding Demons to the Cards?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 16 Oct 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Kiama	16 Oct 2002
I recently met a guy who has been doing Tarot for 8 years, and he boasted that he has bound a demon to each of his cards in his Crowley Thoth deck. Firstly, can someone tell me WHY you'd wanna do that? What purpose does it serve? Secondly, can it be done, or is this guy just a complete nutter? This guys also reckons that nearly all the people who have touched that deck have died in nasty ways... And mabe to help you in your decision here about th egy, for you Tarot-holics: He claims to have BURNT a FIRST EDITION Crowley-Thoth.... Kiama

MystiqueMoonlight	16 Oct 2002
I think the guy is a bit of a nutter to be honest. I use the Thoth and have been researching it for a couple of years, here I am :) As for binding demons perhaps he's just been watching too many movies LOL. Take this guy with a pinch of salt. I mean that quite literally. Take a pinch of salt and think of him as you throw it over your left shoulder. That will dispell any negative karma he has channelled your way by his silly talk.

Sinta	16 Oct 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Kiama I recently met a guy who has been doing Tarot for 8 years, and he boasted that he has bound a demon to each of his cards in his Crowley Thoth deck. All I can say is, yes i believe it is possible. A card is but a card, unless you make it not so.. You dont have to be some great person or someone with mystic powers.. a demon is bound to the card if you let it.. or will it. You invite it, it will come. What purpose is this? I would not know. Some would boast of it saying, oh i have a demon in this card... and such people i believe are childish to play with something that they truly cannot handle. They might've bound it.. but can they control it. I believe spirits can be bound into any item. You will it. Like a glass. There's a practice in Asia where you put a coin in a overturned glass.. call a spirit and capture it into this containment. A friend did this just for fun.. at the end she couldn't control it and the glass splintered... As i said.. it is possible... but do not play childish games.

MeeWah	16 Oct 2002
Kiama: I do not think I would want to know *why* this guy would want to do anything like what you describe. If it is true (& I would not disbelieve him for practical reasons), the purpose may be to harness the energies the demons represent for his own use; for the power. YECCHH!! Burning a first edition Crowley Thoth sounds like a ritual offering or sacrifice. The only other reason I could see burning a deck would be to remove it as a negative energy--& there are other ways of accomplishing that without resorting to such an extreme--unless it represented something else entirely. I would stay away from the likes of him.

MystiqueMoonlight	16 Oct 2002
Just as a further analysis here:- "First edition", boy that guy is one lucky sucker (and stupid too that deck would be worth a fortune) are you aware when the first edition was published? - and this guy must be very, very esoterically trained in order to bind demons to the cards. I mean way beyond his mere 8 years of tarot "doing". For in order to successfully bind he must have some level of control otherwise the demons would be demonising him. The fact that you say "doing tarot" (which I asssume are similar words he used to you) indicates to me this guy doesn't have enough knowledge of the Tarot (and I don't meaning card meanings either) to bind a piece string to his pinky. I hope you get my point here :) I don't mean to sound like I'm over simplifying the subject here...but I can tell you it takes a lot of training to do what he is suggesting.....first edition! Baloney! So many people suggest they are capable of doing something they really have no idea of. Perhaps if it were a century ago I would be a little cautious, but in this age where it takes a lot more than just reading a few books to rebirth your spirituality enough to even cast a wish spell with a few coloured candles. The salt spell is very usable however. I would suggest the only demons he has is the demons of negative karma. blessed be....

HOLMES	16 Oct 2002
i remember after i got my thoth the first time,, i had a dream there was a spirit in it ,, and was freed when i broke the tv so he can go on his way. what i thought of when i heard this is this. 1. he bound demons to the the card so he can ask them to help him with the divination part. 2. a person consorting his deck. (notice everyoen that he boasted anyone who touched his deck would most likely die.) would be hurt. i agree with mewah stay away. or you might or you will get scared.

ChrisTheObscure	16 Oct 2002
Ugh...this reminds me of the episode of "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" I saw last night (yeah, I'm a dork). There was this cult of high school kids that were trying to kill a girl as a sacrifice to a demon that would allow them to "score chicks" and get rich. Naturally, in the end, the demon bit the shoulder off the cult leader. On a TV show, something like this would strike me as humourous, but in real life, stay away. The guy's obviously 1) nutty or 2) really, really stupid - he probably doesn't understand the nature of the forces he's trying to control (more likely, they're the ones in control). Anyways, stay far far away. C.

Macavity	16 Oct 2002
Well, I have no comment on the feasibility of his claims :) But I think it raises the interesting question as to whether one is bound to report such incidents to law enforcement agencies? If your feeling brave, you might be tempted - It might be a public service. Whatever else, causing deaths (or threatening to) even by "unconventional" means, must be distinctly *illegal* in most modern societies?

wavebreaker	16 Oct 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Macavity But I think it raises the interesting question as to whether one is bound to report such incidents to law enforcement agencies? If your feeling brave, you might be tempted - It might be a public service. Whatever else, causing deaths (or threatening to) even by "unconventional" means, must be distinctly *illegal* in most modern societies? You'd better be careful with that, if you don't have any real evidence. Before you know it, anyone who owns a tarot deck will be arrested as soon as someone in their environment dies under suspicious circumstances... :(

HOLMES	16 Oct 2002
be the start of the tarot inquistation and will through tarot back into the stones ages history repeats itself. i sure hope that never happens though

Laurel	16 Oct 2002
I was married to a pathological liar once; this fellow reminds me of my ex-husband. LOL. Nutters really believe what they are saying, liars just want you to. :) I have my sincerest doubts that any or what he said was true; he most certainly was trying to impress you and gain the upper hand, the 'power', in the conversation. His type are unfortunately a dime a dozen. It would serve no real good purpose to bind demons (or any type of spirit form) to tarot cards. The purpose of charging talismans and amulets, for example, is to preform a specific task. Even if this fellow was up and up on what good goetic spirits or demons by any other flavor) match each tarot card and had the patience to preform 78 rituals to summon and bind each one... it wouldn't accomplish anything except in his subjective little universe, unless he was one of the great magicians of our age and those sorts of people have better things to do with their time and energy and certainly don't brag about it. :P For fun, you might consider doing a reading on him yourself, Kiama. Laurel

MystiqueMoonlight	16 Oct 2002
I'm with you on this Laurel...but I guess that's just stating the obvious :)

MeeWah	16 Oct 2002
Laurel & Mystique: You both have a point--actually, more than one. The truly adept have better things to do with their time & energies; do not bandy about their abilities nor their activities (except perhaps in select company). Still, it makes one think.

Macavity	16 Oct 2002
Quote: Originally posted by tarotlady You'd better be careful with that, if you don't have any real evidence. Well, rather obviously so - And (implicit) common sense? Perhaps a more immediate REAL consequence might be a law suite for defamation? But maybe indeed such *serious* consideration might help to clarify in the questioners OWN mind whether HE believes the guy's claims or not. This might be more *useful* e.g. than speculation or an straw poll as to the fundamental feasibility. AFAICS real proof-positive of THAT might prove far more damaging to Tarot in the public mind than the boasts of one individual. Fwiw, I remember an individual disrupting a forum to which I subscribed and threatening members, making similar claims. The moderator "booted" him. His ISP shut down his website. I think he did become - "sub judice" at a later stage? Sadly, there's a lot of it about... Mac

ihcoyc	16 Oct 2002
I suspect he's nuts. Demons are fallen angels. You don't tell them where to go. Why would he want 78 --- or is it 79 or 80? --- demons in his Thoth deck to begin with? It might make the deck an interesting pop up book, I guess. I suspect that when he shuffles and draws, he gets similar results to anyone else who has kept their deck free from demons. Besides, if he actually had power over demons, this wouldn't be something to brag about. To do that he'd have to have gone a long way towards becoming a part of the demon hierarchy himself. Were he actually such, it seems unlikely he'd be announcing this to strangers. No: either he's under the influence of the demons he fancies he's controlling, and/or he's suffering from a mental disorder.

amyel	16 Oct 2002
Quote: Originally posted by ChrisTheObscure Ugh...this reminds me of the episode of "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" I saw last night (yeah, I'm a dork). There was this cult of high school kids that were trying to kill a girl as a sacrifice to a demon that would allow them to "score chicks" and get rich. Naturally, in the end, the demon bit the shoulder off the cult leader. C. (Pssssttttt...Chris, Kiama is also a Buffy fan....but in the UK, they are a few seasons behind. Be careful of spoilers!) Kiama, please be wary of this guy! I think you know that the forum is pretty open minded, but it seems we are all getting a creepy feeling.

blue_fusion	16 Oct 2002
i believe it is actually possible. however, like so many other people who have responded here, i see no purpose in doing so, especially since the tarot is a tool primarily for divination.

HudsonGray	16 Oct 2002
(I watch Buffy too, so the UK is BEHIND us on episodes? Bummer. We're a year behind on Stargate, which is done in Canada--I get the tapes from a pen pal up there!! Yahoo!) Ihcoyc, I love the visual image of a little pop-up deck! Geez, tiny demons jumping around on the cards trying to tell him what he's supposed to be interpreting himself! Never happen though! IF he has the ability, it's a waste of energy to try doing. Besides, the loss of intuitive interpretation makes the little demon thingies true handicaps in a reading. IF he lied about it just to feel 'powerful' and get awe from other readers, he's not worth listening to. The guy's an idiot. Who in their right mind gets kicks from knowing others are hurt by touching his things? If it happened in the first place. Don't most readers who don't want their cards touched say that the vibes from the OTHER person (ie: the toucher) destroys their connection to the deck? IF he's delusional, and really believes it, there's nothing says you have to stay anywhere near him. Gawd help those he's doing readings for! If your instincts say 'stay away' then listen to them. If they say 'he's a jerk & a liar' listen to them. If they say 'who cares', then listen to them too. Instinct is pretty good. Best to listen to it. As for who/what the guy is, actually it won't really matter, he's living in his own little world & it doesn't need to impinge on yours. Just hope he won't give tarot readers a bad name.

catlin	17 Oct 2002
I also think that this guy is nuts (had seen too much low budged horror and mystery crap). But you can theoretically bind a demon to whatever you like, even to the string of your shoes but that is really "High Magick" and you need a lot of experience (and maybe also your coffin at hand in case something míght go wrong). Believe me, there is plenty of folk hanging around at the herb shop where I usually get my stuff and most of them claim to be Crowley reincarnated or Mr Superwizard and they are all pretty harmless.

Major Tom	17 Oct 2002
I think the important message here is this is a guy to stay away from... *Thinking protective thoughts about Kiama*

catlin	17 Oct 2002
Yep, best thing is to leave such folk to their own demons.

Kiama	17 Oct 2002
Thanks for all your advice guys.... One of my not-so-god points, well, sometimes, is that I tend to trust people too readily and see only the good in them too quickly, without displaying caution... I will do a reading about this guy, and see what comes up.... Kiama

fairyhedgehog	17 Oct 2002
Quote: Originally posted by amyel (Pssssttttt...Chris, Kiama is also a Buffy fan....but in the UK, they are a few seasons behind. Be careful of spoilers!) So am I! I love Buffy and and most other fantasy and science fiction series. I wouldn't confuse them with reality, though, as this guy seems to be doing.

Demonesse	17 Oct 2002
In the first place, I don't even believe he had a first edition of the Crowley deck. Maybe he can indeed imbue the cards with forces beyond the natural, but I hardly believe they would be of demonical force. He sounds like a sixteen year old Satanist who desperately wants to impress. Btw, the ritual Sinta refers to is true, but they're mere spirits and sometimes vampirical entities, not demons per se - I know someone who was once demon-possessed and the rituals it took to free him were much more extensive, gruelling and painful for me to believe this Grimm Brothers fairytale of this guy being able to bind demons to cards - I note that people who are actually very adept in certain things actually do NOT talk or boast about it, for that matter, as ihcoyc has noted (except chess grandmasters -full of hot air :D). There is simply no need to once you're at that stage. Lastly, believe me, it would logically be a lot more easy for THEM to control him than the other way round - demons, I think, don't take easy to being puppets of mortals. })

ihcoyc	17 Oct 2002
If this is possible, I know what my next step is. I'm going to get a Hanson-Roberts deck, and bind a Smurf to each card. There you go. . .

Sinta	17 Oct 2002
Quote: Originally posted by ihcoyc I'm going to get a Hanson-Roberts deck, and bind a Smurf to each card. There you go. . . LOL... well i doubt that would be counted as demon binding... i mean, how many little blue singing demons do you see daily? ... besides in telly ;)

Demonesse	17 Oct 2002
Hehe! Great idea...but oh please spare me the singing Barneys and Teletubbies of the tarot...far more frightening than any demon, if you ask me.

Sinta	17 Oct 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Demonesse Hehe! Great idea...but oh please spare me the singing Barneys and Teletubbies of the tarot...far more frightening than any demon, if you ask me. *shudders with fear and runs* Its the devil incarnate and he's dressed in purple! Barney!!!!

blue_fusion	17 Oct 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Demonesse In the first place, I don't even believe he had a first edition of the Crowley deck. Maybe he can indeed imbue the cards with forces beyond the natural, but I hardly believe they would be of demonical force. He sounds like a sixteen year old Satanist who desperately wants to impress. Btw, the ritual Sinta refers to is true, but they're mere spirits and sometimes vampirical entities, not demons per se - I know someone who was once demon-possessed and the rituals it took to free him were much more extensive, gruelling and painful for me to believe this Grimm Brothers fairytale of this guy being able to bind demons to cards - I note that people who are actually very adept in certain things actually do NOT talk or boast about it, for that matter, as ihcoyc has noted (except chess grandmasters -full of hot air :D). There is simply no need to once you're at that stage. Lastly, believe me, it would logically be a lot more easy for THEM to control him than the other way round - demons, I think, don't take easy to being puppets of mortals. }) i've just read that you're located in malaysia. i was just wondering, did the ritual you're describing above involve native "witches"? that's because i think we havesomething similar here in the philippines. Quote: Originally posted by Sinta I believe spirits can be bound into any item. You will it. Like a glass. There's a practice in Asia where you put a coin in a overturned glass.. call a spirit and capture it into this containment. A friend did this just for fun.. at the end she couldn't control it and the glass splintered... As i said.. it is possible... but do not play childish games. }) hmm, me and my friends did this often before, and asked the spirit inside (mundane) questions. oh well. we were young then...

Sinta	17 Oct 2002
Quote: Originally posted by blue_fusion hmm, me and my friends did this often before, and asked the spirit inside (mundane) questions. oh well. we were young then... That's what my friend was doing.. she was asking any spirit to come and bind itself into the glass so she can ask it questions.. after a few unanswered questions she kinda gave up and thought it was a silly game.. until the glass splintered on the table -_- scaaaaaaaaary. Or even bringing a spirit to a mirror. It would go like, lock yourself in a dark room, have a large mirror before you.. turn around 6 times, whispering a name of a spirit (usually its bloody mary) and look into the mirror to see it... some say its just a joke, but many have actually seen something that wasn't their own features.

Demonesse	17 Oct 2002
Well we do - recently there's been lots of talk about trapping our native vampires ('langsuyar') in bottles. I think ritual magic is quite common all over Asia actually - spirit of the coin is common. Our native witches are actually mostly men ('bomohs' - commonly held to specialize in curses and curse-removal), methinks, as well the mediums of the various temples, but you do get women as well. An online friend had a female ghost/vampire fall in love with him after one too many times of playing spirit of the coin in the graveyard and she 'attached' herself to his back...

DarkElectric	17 Oct 2002
I think something else that's been overlooked here, is that this guy seems impressed that people have died in nasty ways from allegedly touching this demon embossed deck. Whether this is true, or a delusional story, I would definitely suggest avoiding any person who seems so thrilled by that. If it's a figment of his imagination, he's sick. If it's actually happening, he's even sicker. Avoid this creep.

ChrisTheObscure	17 Oct 2002
(so sorry for any buffy spoilers I may have given) Kiama, let us know what comes up in your reading about this freak. C.

Alex	17 Oct 2002
and probably time to dedicate to such rituals. Good for him. As I don't have such choices, I'm just gonna shut up about it. People divert themselves with whatever they can. Life is short... Quote: Originally posted by Kiama He claims to have BURNT a FIRST EDITION Crowley-Thoth.... Kiama

Kiama	18 Oct 2002
Thankyou, thankyou, thankyou over and over again guys! This does reassure me alot. I haven't done the reading yet cuz I was out all night til around 4am this morning, meanig no time was left. And any readings I did last night were for others at the BBQ party we were at. I don't, lukcily, see this guy often. He has done a couple of workshops for the group in the past, and he went to my first one, but sat playing on his mobile phone all through it. :( Maybe next time he says about having hound demons to his Thoth, I'll tell him about Ihcoyc's smurf's... }) Kiama

MystiqueMoonlight	18 Oct 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Kiama I don't, lukcily, see this guy often. He has done a couple of workshops for the group in the past, and he went to my first one, but sat playing on his mobile phone all through it. :( Kiama Well I think that kind of says this guy is a little immature to even have the capabilities to do such a thing as binding demons. The smurf binding may even be a little out of his league :)

Umbrae	18 Oct 2002
A truly entertaining thread. I think the guy; 1) Believes his lies. 2) Is just lying to get your goat. If he had a first edition Crowley, with provenance, he is pretty well off – so, check out his shoes – therein lies the truth. (Binding 78 demons - LOL...Wait! What about reversals?!?)

Demonesse	18 Oct 2002
(Binding 78 demons - LOL...Wait! What about reversals?!?) I suppose the hooves would pop in and the white-feathered wings would pop out...

The Binding Demons to the Cards? thread was originally posted on 16 Oct 2002 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.