cutting off the borders

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 26 Oct 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

temperlyne	26 Oct 2002
I don't usually mutilate my cards, and I usually love borders. I just hate big white ones. I recently got the alchemical tarot because I like its new way of looking at the traditional images. But it just didn't speak to me. I kept getting distracted by those large white borders... So, on a whim, I cut them off.... I love the deck now! It's very compact and I take it with me in my bag, the images seem to have come to live. Almost as if I released them from their white cardboard prisons.. I don't know if it is done more often, but it was like doing something forbidden to me..

truthsayer	26 Oct 2002
i think there are several other ppl here who've cut off the borders of a deck so you aren't alone.

LadyShallot	26 Oct 2002
My friend cut off the borders of that deck as well. She also didn't like having the words on the Osho Zen deck and cut those off. Finally, she took the Universal Waite and Robin Wood and picked her favorites from each deck and cut them so the size would match and uses that as her personal blended deck. She has been a lesson to me in not getting hooked in to "rules" about card use.

Cerulean	26 Oct 2002
I knew of some people who said via email they used decorative border scissors to make nice, compact borders on their Sacred Circle. I trimmed both my Stairs of Gold and Sharman Caselli from their borders and the visual experience pleased me more. I'm thinking of finding a gently used Sacred Circle and trimming the majors down to my Fairy Ring. People have noted that the backs will be different (Hybrid Deck thread)...but I'd be happy to be able to use both together as my Celtic photomontage deck. I wonder if a majors only version of the Sacred Circle would have been better, as I've seen much feedback that it's a lovely deck, but the minors aren't as insightful as the majors. Just a thought---thanks for letting us know about the creative snips. Mari H.

Woof	27 Oct 2002
temperlyne: I've been looking for feedback on the Alchemical. What do you think of it (now that you've cut off the borders)? How does it compare with traditional RW style decks in your readings? Any feedback at all would be helpfull. I know what you mean about the borders, they were a distraction at first but don't bother me now. Thank you for any feedback you could offer. Woof

Ravenswing	27 Oct 2002
temperlyne: as you have learned, it's not mutilation-- it's unlocking the images from unnatural prisons. the creator doesn't (usually) create the images with those white rims. i've released most of my decks. and, as you have seen, hte results are astounding. one of the more interesting ones i've done is the diamond tarot. i cut them-- even removed the titles of the cards-- until i was left with a tunnel. they worked great for pathworking; you were drawn right into the card. the robin wood is wonderful-- and the smaller size makes them easier to handle. so, if you're handy with a ultility knife and steel rule, there's a whole world of difference.... ravenswing

mirja crimson	27 Oct 2002
Quote: Originally posted by LadyShallot Finally, she took the Universal Waite and Robin Wood and picked her favorites from each deck and cut them so the size would match and uses that as her personal blended deck. I was wondering about that. It is okay to take cards from different decks and make a whole new deck that way? Because I know that there's at least one card in every deck that I just don't really like, or don't connect with or don't feel the same about the meaning of the card, etc. Is it okay to make a personal deck by blending decks?

Ravenswing	27 Oct 2002
"do what thou wilt is the whole of the law" "... and it harm none..." it's okay only if you have no doubts.... master slicer ravenswing

Violet Gargoyle	28 Oct 2002
I just wanted to point out that the Buckland Romani does not have borders on it.....

catlin	29 Oct 2002
When I got my trimmed Ceremonial Tarot from Ravenswing my first reaction was "Yckies" but after a while I grew accustomed to it and was even thinking about trimming a deck myself.

dangerdork	29 Oct 2002
* CRINGE * I would never be able to bring myself to cut the borders off any of my cards, even if I didn't like them. But that's the artist in me talking, wanting to respect the presentation that was chosen for the art in prticular. I don't usually like borders in compositions, but I can think of two of my own decks at least that don't have borders: the Morgan-Greer and the Templars. Somehow the image bleeding all the way to the edge of the cards just doesn't work for me. But a chacun son gout I guess... My real reason for responding, though, was about the Alchemical Tarot. I bought them for their different angle on the esoteric symbolism, and for the clean style, but they've proven one of the most effective reading decks I've ever had. The images are so elegant, they really resonate the card meanings. Not to mention probably my favorite card backs ever. The book is informative and well written... this has quickly become one of my favorite decks ever. For those who don't have this one, I'd highly recommend it both for collecting and for use in readings.

Demonesse	29 Oct 2002
Eek! :eek: I'd never cut the borders off; firstly; it'd look tampered with, without the smooth edges any longer, secondly, it might spoil the back design, and I hate tampering with a finished product because something always goes wrong! *cringes together with dangerdork*

Keslynn	29 Oct 2002
I would feel terrible cutting of the borders of cards. It took me a few semesters in college before I would highlight in my own textbooks, and I still would never take notes in the margins of my Bible as some people do. I just like to keep things as they are. It might be because I was raised in a house with a lot of books, which I was encouraged to read but leave so others could enjoy as well. Or it might be the part of me that worked in an archives and cringes when things aren't preserved well. :) Kes

Pollux	29 Oct 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Ravenswing i've released most of my decks. and, as you have seen, the results are astounding. I am a witness: I got his Gill! :D *LOL* (And my friend, you know I will never thank you enough for that!) It is ASTOUNDING, that is the correct word. The cards shed their lights and shadows and enegies all around, freely, with no boundaries and constraints. The readngs have such a different feel, and the cards themselves seem to love each other more (I felt a sort of friction betweeb them in my other not-enhanced Gill deck). In truth, since I started using it, I could not bring myself to use my old Gill again, and I know The Naughty Lady suffered a lot for that, but she'll go to Liliana now, and I know they'll do great together. :) I could not stand the look of that white bordering with the copyright line, standing out and quenching the cards. That Princess of Cups is a rime example. Temperlyne, do the right thing... SLASH!!! *LOL* And thank you again, Steve! :)

Ravenswing	29 Oct 2002
dangerdork-- i guess i see the borders as similar to the frame on a painting. if i don't like the frame, i see no reason to change it-- it's not an integral part of the composition; it's something that's supposed to compliment the artwork. personally, i would not care to see the images of the deck i'm working out to be surrounded by blank space that has the copyright of the company that publishes them. but then again, i don't frame my paintings either. just my particular taste. to demonesse-- a little work with an emory board smoothes out the edges. most back designs also have a boarder which matches the front boarder. granted, there are some decks that work for me with the boarders. but then again, some work so well when released... i'm considering releasing my halloween deck... the timing is perfect }) as it has been said: "to each her own..." raven

RedWood	29 Oct 2002
What are the tools to unleash the decks??? I haven ot done that yet..I should of done it to my THoth..i might of liked it better! or not hehe..

Ravenswing	30 Oct 2002
redwood-- the thoth is great w/out the extra boarder. i use a ultility knife and a steel ruler. set the ruler on the face of the card and let the boarder stick out. a quick slice and it's off. i've found it best to use a new blade after about 15 cards; otherwise it sometimes doesn't cut clean on the first swipe. happy knifing raven

dangerdork	30 Oct 2002
Quote: Originally posted by dangerdork I would never be able to bring myself to cut the borders off any of my cards, even if I didn't like them. OK, now I'm intrigued - y'all are going to make me eat my words! I'm going to try this... but not with any of my "good" decks! LOL I still don't like the idea with the Alchemical deck though - they went to extra effort on the borders with the little "roman column" ornaments and stuff, obviously planned as part of the presentation. The frame metaphor is a good one - but I'll toss it back to you - oil paintings unframed look like junk, even if they're good paintings. And many artists plan their compositions knowing that a frame will be there. But I guess this is still a fun and playful thing to do. Reminds me of Robin Williams telling the kids to rip the "Introduction" pages out of their books in Dead Poets Society ... And that term, "releasing" the cards makes it sound so magickal and sexy... now I HAVE to try it. You guys are a bad influence

zander770	30 Oct 2002
Quote: Originally posted by LadyShallot My friend cut off the borders of that deck as well. She also didn't like having the words on the Osho Zen deck and cut those off. Finally, she took the Universal Waite and Robin Wood and picked her favorites from each deck and cut them so the size would match and uses that as her personal blended deck. She has been a lesson to me in not getting hooked in to "rules" about card use. that's a wild idea! i see no "problem" w/it (save as a collector purist, of course) . . . 770

Ravenswing	30 Oct 2002
dangerdork-- i guess i've got a wall full of original junk hanging around my house LOL!! and i've never seen a book of great art in frames... anyhow, if you'd like to see what your card'll look like, make a black mat sized to the trimmed card. that way you'll know what to expect. i agree with you about the alchemical tarot deck with the pillars-- but they are an integral part of the image. just cut the dead white out... (same thing i'd do with a thoth deck)

dangerdork	31 Oct 2002
Raven: Well of course I meant no disrespect for your art! Me and my big mouth. But I'll bet that most of that original art in your home was done by yourself or your friends or family and the only reason it's NOT framed is the expense... My dad was a painter and I have his original stuff displayed unframed. But I'm sticking with the perspective that presentation IS important, and is an issue that many artists take into account (again, since there are borderless decks, I would infer that the artists have some say in whether there are borders or not) Would you buy a framed, original painting, remove the frame, and then display it unframed? but we're beating a dead horse. I AM gonna try this :)

Jewel	31 Oct 2002
Quote: Originally posted by dangerdork I would infer that the artists have some say in whether there are borders or not I am not sure I would infer this .... LoScarabeo decks are pretty much all "framed" in the same way (a pet peeve to many of us here ....). I think it really depends on the publisher ... if the deck is self-published then ideed the artist has full control ... if not I am not so sure. Several Tarot Deck artists with published decks have come and do come to Aeclectic ... this might be an interesting question to ask them. Personally I could not "release" my decks ... (1) because I am a collector, (2) fear of screwing it up.

dangerdork	31 Oct 2002
LOVE those Lo Scarabeo decks. I think as collectible Art, you should respect the presentation, but as a magickal or meditative tool then you should feel free to do whatever moves you. How's that? It WOULD be an interesting question for the Forum. Wonder if any Lo Scarabeo artists come through here?

faunabay	31 Oct 2002
Most of the artists I've read here on aeclectic or other places talk about how the publisher has made them change (in some way) how they want to present their deck or book. *Robin Wood didn't want the backs of her deck to be that design. *Clive Barrett (ancient egyptian) had much of his book edited out. *The artist (can't remember his name right now, sorry) for the Morgan Greer was pushed to finish the court cards in a couple of days - that's why they're all the same pictures just colored differently for the suits. So maybe this is a warning for you dangerdork :) - you sound like you may, in the future, be looking for a publisher for your deck in progress! :) Maybe you'll want to self publish! LOL

dangerdork	31 Oct 2002
Wow - that's interesting info faunabay. Now that you mention it, I did know that about Robin's deck - I think maybe the original back is in her book or something. It's certainly good info to take into account - but I'm quite a long way off from a point where I would be negotiating with publishers ;)

Ravenswing	31 Oct 2002
hey DD-- i never considered you as showing any disrespect to anything at all. my tongue is in cheek so often that i'm suprised i haven't bitten it off-- LOL!! (inflection is so hard in these posts) as to framing-- the only pieces i've frame are ones i've shown... nowhere will let me hang them without some sort of framing. and what i use is quarter-inch thick stripping painted flat black. as minimal as possible... i just don't like frames. total personal taste; it feels to me like i'm putting it into a box. are you going for a deck?? best to you-- it's quite a process of self examination. and i don't always like what i see in my mirror... on the wing raven

The cutting off the borders thread was originally posted on 26 Oct 2002 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.