Aleister Crowley

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 19 Nov 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

numbrel	19 Nov 2002
Hi, I am making my way through the local library's collection of W. Somerset Maugham and today found 'The Magician.' In the intro to the edition I have, Maugham writes about knowing Crowley and basing 'The Magician' on him. Maugham didn't like Crowley and has nothing good to say about him in the intro and so far in the book, the character, Oliver Hadoo, is not a nice character. But I thought that some here might be interested in checking it out, if their library has the book. numbrel

MystiqueMoonlight	19 Nov 2002
Yes you all knew I would comment in this thread :) I have been studying Crowley and Thelema now for 2 years. He is a grossly misunderstood man. In his day Crowley managed to offend and alienate many many people, simply because he was outspoken and perhaps fanatical in his beliefs. You must take into account the era in which he lived when few people were as open about subjects matters as he. I would suggest taking a look at some of his poetry.

Laurel	19 Nov 2002
I'd say that Crowley and Nixon are two of the most misunderstood men of the 20th century. Doesn't mean they both didn't do some really great things and some really crappy things that cannot be completely separated from one another. Yesterday I was reading a very short essay written by my favorite Thelemic Frater on a theory why someone as talented as Crowley could also be a hot-headed, back-stabbing misogynistic womanizer. The theory is that Crowley did some of his misdeeds deliberately so that he would always be remembered as a man, and not a god. That Uncle Al didn't want to whitewashed and apotheosized as was Jesus but remembered as being completely and wonderfully human. If so, he accomplished it. Laurel

Silverlotus	19 Nov 2002
I guess this is a good place to ask my questions about Crowely. In all the studying over the years, I've actually done my best to avoid studying anything by him. There was something someone said or something I read just I was getting into the study of magick/Tarot/spirituality/etc. that turned me off of him. Honestly, all these years later I can't remember what it was. Recently, I've thought about studying Crowely and this ideas recently, but I'm not sure where to begin. Our library is awful, and I'm a bit short in the funds department to buy new books. Could anyone suggest some websites that could get me started? I know there is a Thelema section on the Sacred Texts site (http://www.sacred-texts.com/oto/index.htm) Are these a good place to start? Any help would be great. :) Silverlotus

Thirteen	19 Nov 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Laurel I'd say that Crowley and Nixon are two of the most misunderstood men of the 20th century. Doesn't mean they both didn't do some really great things and some really crappy things that cannot be completely separated from one another. I think you're dead on, Laurel. This has been hashed out before, but innovators are people, not saints. Einstein was not nice to his first wife or his kids. That doesn't alter the fact that he was a genius who revolutionized physics. Alternately, this doesn't mean that you need forgive, say, Jackson Pollack for being an alcholic who killed himself an an innocent passanger in an auto accident just because he was a great painter. The brilliance doesn't excuse the sins, but the sins don't deminish the brilliance. Movers and shakers, in any world (art, music, science), are what they are. You take what you need from them--the best and most important things they had to offer--and leave the rest. As for Crowley being misunderstood, this has as much to do with his own desire to be viewed as a "bad boy" as the times in which he lived. On the one hand, he carries with him a frightful reputation that really, really isn't that frightful. By modern terms it's hardly all that shocking (sex, drugs, yeah, so?). He never murdered anyone. Treated women shoddy, but he wasn't the Marquis de Sade. On the other hand, there's little doubt that he wanted and relished the bad boy label. Others did things as bad if not worse than Crowley, but they did it in private. He was something of an exibitionist, doing things in public, proudly telling everyone about his exploits, in order to produce shocks. The important thing however is this: To this day, folk take Crowley way too seriously, either thinking he's a monster to be avoided like poison (even though they often don't know why he'd thought of as a monster), or that he's a fantastic black magician who must be spoken of in awed whispers. Most important lesson anyone can learn about Crowley (imho) is not to take him that seriously. He's got really interesting things to say about magic systems, ancient theology, symbolism, etc. He tends to induge and go overboard on just about everything (I believe that somewhere he analyzes nursery rhymes in terms of black magic), but that's okay. Take him with a grain of salt, and you'll find him useful.

MystiqueMoonlight	19 Nov 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Silverlotus I guess this is a good place to ask my questions about Crowely. In all the studying over the years, I've actually done my best to avoid studying anything by him. There was something someone said or something I read just I was getting into the study of magick/Tarot/spirituality/etc. that turned me off of him. Honestly, all these years later I can't remember what it was. Recently, I've thought about studying Crowely and this ideas recently, but I'm not sure where to begin. Our library is awful, and I'm a bit short in the funds department to buy new books. Could anyone suggest some websites that could get me started? I know there is a Thelema section on the Sacred Texts site ( http://www.sacred-texts.com/oto/index.htm ) Are these a good place to start? Any help would be great. :) Silverlotus Ok let's see if I can do this :) Here are some links for you to explore:- http://www.maroney.org/CrowleyIntro/ http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/1896/crowpage.html http://www.thelemicgoldendawn.org/ These sites all have relevant links as well. Hope that helps you out a bit.

Thirteen	20 Nov 2002
Good sites. And I think this one: http://www.maroney.org/CrowleyIntro/ Proves my point about taking Crowley too seriously. I mean really. How scary can a guy be wearing that hat?

lupo138	20 Nov 2002
*ROFL* you should see him being dressed as a pharao ! But his list of correspondences (Liber 777) is quite interesting. Actually I think he is overvalued as a persone, because he took what he had learned and broke his oath of keeping that secret. So it was wider spread. But it wasn´t his genuine work, but, as I believe, to 90% that of others.

Silverlotus	20 Nov 2002
Thanks for the links. They look like they will give me the some of the info I'm looking for. And I love that picture! It's exactly what I needed to see! lol!

Laurel	20 Nov 2002
Thirteen thank you so much for saying what I was trying to, about 100 times for articulately! :) The tarot world is a better place for Crowley though, that's for sure. In terms of Crowley resources, my very favorite Golden Dawn member, Israel Regardie, wrote one of the best biographies on Crowley that's available: The Eye In The Triangle. Its highly readable and honest without excessive trashing on anyone. Crowley may have been the more "impressive" magician, but I identify with Regardie because I feel that Regardie had the kinds of morals and ethics that I personally embrace and ever seek to improve in myself. Regardie is a role model for me, someone who lived his spiritual journey in his daily life in ways that have personal meaning to me, including his choice to break his oaths when and why he did so and publically make the core GD material available. 777, by the way, is probably at least 70% "borrowed" GD material and not created by Crowley himself.

Silverlotus	20 Nov 2002
Laurel, could you suggest some websites to learn about Regardie? Honestly, I'm not sure where to begin in this whole Crowley, Golden Dawn, where-ever-it's-going-to-lead study.

MystiqueMoonlight	20 Nov 2002
Let us not forget though there are two distinct Golden Dawn's The Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn:- http://www.golden-dawn.com/ OR http://www.hermeticgoldendawn.org/index.shtml and then there is the Thelemic Order of the Golden Dawn:- http://www.thelemicgoldendawn.org/ The differences between the two is the Hermetic Order, although based on the original order, takes it's name from the Greek God Hermes (see Emerald Tablet of Hermes http://www.levity.com/alchemy/rawn_cla.html ). This new Order of the Golden Dawn is largely attributed to Israel Regardie (who was secretary and student to Aleister Crowley). The GD Order we see today was rebirthed in the 1980's by the Ciceros with Regardie's guidance. Although smaller orders were probably around before then no real impact was made until then. The Thelemic Order of the Golden Dawn was founded by Aleister Crowley and is based on the Book of Law http://www.occultresearch.org/thelema/liberal.htm This was dictated to Crowley during meditation several days after he sited the sacred Stele of Revealing http://www.luminist.org/Archives/Stele.htm The two Orders have definitive fundamental differences. Regardie was secretary and student to Crowley before he decided to actively recucitate the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn. Although it may seem Crowley breached some sacred oath of secracy. He infact founded a new Order based on the information he received from a Stellar Entity. Perhaps too we may consider that Regardie is then as guilty of breaking that oath as well. I believe however that both men had a willingness to keep these Orders alive and infact were not breaking some oath, but were sharing valuable and wothwhile resources to people who would understand the paths of these Orders. The secracy still exists IMO because even most people who explore the teachings of these Orders do not fully comprehend the information they digest from them nor value the teachings they have to offer. most other none GD initiates have no idea what it is about either accept for speculation and innuendo.

Silverlotus	20 Nov 2002
Wonderful! Thank you for all the information. You've provided me with a lot to read. Thank you for the help.

SlyR	21 Nov 2002
If your interest in the G.D. comes from a desire to familiarize yourself with the practice of ceremonial magick, then the definitive source is "Modern Magick" by Donald Michael Kraig. It's not really a G.D. text, but his system is mostly G.D. inspired. Kraig himself was, for a brief time, secretary to Regardie. When Regardie released his "Golden Dawn," both Kraig and Regardie agreed that a more lucid text was begging to be written. Kraig's cuts the mustard.

lupo138	21 Nov 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Laurel 777, by the way, is probably at least 70% "borrowed" GD material and not created by Crowley himself. Right, that´s what I was trying to explain. But anyway, he published it.

Laurel	21 Nov 2002
Ditto on "Modern Magic" by DMK as being probably the best place to start in all of this. Its an easy book to find in bookstores or buy used, too. I'm personally looking into joining a "new" Golden Dawn Order.. Open Source Order of the Golden Dawn, which seems better suited and compatible for my LHP-Setian self, even if its a little more Thelemic than personal taste. http://tahuti.osogd.org/osogd.org/ Good online resources for Regardie: http://www.controverscial.com/Israel%20Regardie.htm http://www.hermeticgoldendawn.org/Documents/Bios/regardie.htm http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Atrium/7486/regardie.html My personal email to discuss Hermeticism/occult/GD with anyone who's interested is laureliao@yahoo.com I don't want to waste Aeclectic's resources going off into too many Ceremonial magic tangents, esp the "Talking Tarot" forum. Not that tarot isn't an important tool within the GD and such, but the GD scope itself is so broad that I'd personally feel guilty, and would be more than happy to instead answer questions, suggest good books to read, and ramble regarding my various occultnik theories and insights privately to any who are interested. Laurel

Ruby	29 Nov 2002
Re: Crowley All the good stuff has already been said but just in case it’s of any use Channel4 (UK) showed a series of programmes earlier this year called ‘Masters of Darkness’ (see link below) one of which was on Crowley. Obviously it’s best to keep an open mind about such programmes after all sensationalism makes for more interesting TV for the masses! http://www.channel4.com/history/microsites/M/masters_darkness/crowley.html

The Aleister Crowley thread was originally posted on 19 Nov 2002 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.