Does anyone know?----

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 23 Nov 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Teal	23 Nov 2002
I hope this is the right topic to put this question under---- Does anyone know what the religious leanings of Hermann Haindl were? Was he Jewish? If someone has the first two books written by Rachel Pollack it might be found in those, but it's not in the Handbook. I'm just curious, since he uses Kabbalah symbols on the cards.

Scorpion	23 Nov 2002
Not sure of his religious leanings as such, Teal, but Pollack states that he "changed the (Heirophant) card from a specifically Christian image to a specifically Jewish one for several reasons. For one thing, as a German who served in World War II, he wished to honor the people so horribly persecuted by his own nation". This is yet another book I need to reread - it's so jam-packed with information.

divinerguy	23 Nov 2002
Haindl was definitely influenced by traditional Germanic beliefs. Take a look at the cards, and the references to Parsifal. He also has Odin, the Venus of Willendorf and Brigid in there too. Of interest is the Hierophant, who looks like a Jewish grandfather. I believe the German born Haindl did this, in part, to atone for the sins of the Nazis. Haindl wants his Tarot deck to bring people together, which, I am told, is why he included icons and characters from diverse belief systems.

MystiqueMoonlight	23 Nov 2002
Herman Haindl is Jewish and a surviver of the Holocaust. When I spoke with Rachel Pollack she revealed she was finishing a book with Haindl about the Kabalah. It will be printed in German, perhaps somewhere down the line in English.

Teal	23 Nov 2002
Thank you very much, all of you. This information isn't in the Handbook, or if it is, it didn't stick in my memory. I have a lot to learn about the myths and legends involved with tarot decks in general and this one in particular. I'm going to get the books on the major and minor arcana in a week or so, so that should help give me insight. This is a fascinating deck and I'm so glad I got it. It's taking a little bit of time for me to adjust to it, though, because in some cases the meanings he gives for each card is different. That particularly throws me when, for instance, the four of stones (pentacles) in this deck means "extreme creativity" when in other decks it can indicate something less positive, like miserliness. The words at the bottom sometimes help, but often hinder me. I love the deck, though, so I'm going to stick with it and make it my main deck. I really like that eye on the backs of the cards for some reason. It just looks so wise and it seems into one's soul. I saw a review where a person who was less than enthusiastic about the deck said it looked like the eye had a "tear or a stye" in it. Well, to me it's obviously a tear, and I think that's a very elequent statement of Haindl's deep and profound sorrow at what he's seen and experienced of man's inhumanity to man summed up in one picture. I'm sure there aren't words to adequately express that and the picture does it well.

Lee	23 Nov 2002
Quote: Originally posted by MystiqueMoonlight Herman Haindl is Jewish and a surviver of the Holocaust. Hi, MM, are you sure about this? I remember from reading Pollack's books that Haindl was a German soldier who had been interred in a Russian prisoner of war camp. The general impression that I got was that he was not Jewish. -- Lee

Teal	23 Nov 2002
He wasn't Jewish, I don't think, but he found out what his people, the Germans, did to the Jews in the extermination camps and he was appalled over that, is what I got from the Handbook.

MystiqueMoonlight	24 Nov 2002
Well from what I understand with my interview with Rachel Pollack is that Herman Haindl is a German born Jew, hence he and her writing the book on Kabalah together.

Teal	24 Nov 2002
Thank you very much for this input, Mystique. I'm sure you'd know if anyone would. I'm very anxious to get the books on the major and minor arcana for the Haindl that she wrote. I have a question for you, too. Did she write 78 Degrees of Wisdom with regard to tarot in general, or did it have some specific connection with the Haindl deck, too? I read the interview and was a little confused about that from something said there. I don't remember the quote. I've always thought 78 Degrees was about tarot in general. I'm going to order that one and the other two from Amazon in a few days, when my bank account is "full" again.

MystiqueMoonlight	24 Nov 2002
78 Degrees was written way before the Haindl. It is specific to the Rider Waite deck, although I suppose you could use it with a RW clone. Funny I asked Rachel a similar question, but in reverse. I felt the Haindl book (updated version) was a good all rounder. But in fact they are two seperate systems as the Haindl tends to parallel the Thoth not Rider Waite. It's a very good book so if you don't have it I thouroughly reommend it. Don't get the Volumes 1 and 2, get her new updated copy which has both volumes in it with a little more information about the man himself.

Teal	24 Nov 2002
Where might I get that volume with the two in it? I went to the Amazon website and they list them as two separate books. Would I find the two volumes in one on her website? Or what should I do in wording a search to find it?

Lee	24 Nov 2002
Actually the new updated edition is also in two volumes, as the original was. Click here to see the Barnes & Noble listing for Vol. 1; click here to see Vol. 2. Sorry to be so contrary in this thread! :) -- Lee

MystiqueMoonlight	24 Nov 2002
I am not aware of this Lee, The book which contains both volumes was revised with a new preface. The ISBN is 0-7225-3572-4. Rachel Pollack did mention that this single version (with both volumes in it) is her latest release of the original. I'm a little weary of the sale of 2 seperate volumes which claim to be the latest editions.

Lee	24 Nov 2002
That ISBN number is for the new one-volume edition of Seventy-Eight Degrees of Wisdom, not the Haindl book(s). -- Lee

MystiqueMoonlight	24 Nov 2002
Oops! You're right Lee. I just have so many books here I don't know what I'm picking up these days LOL There is a single Volume book for the Haindl, it usually comes with the deck. If you are having trouble getting this book let me know and I'll take a look around here for you. Take care

Laurel	25 Nov 2002
I went hunting around, but couldn't find any doccumentation that Mr. Haindl might be Jewish, but plenty that he served in the war on the Russian front. I think the Kabbalah found in the deck is just part of the Western Esoterica synthesis in the cards. Laurel

Kyrielle	25 Nov 2002
Last I knew, there were three different books on the Haindl: The Pollack work, volumes one and two, and another book which sounds like it's along the lines of the usual kind of book included in book-deck sets. However, I have never seen a Haindl set around here -- just the deck by itself, and I have likewise never seen this third book available seperately. I can't remember where, but I think I did hear mention of a single-volume edition of Pollack's Haindl books -- that they would be updated and combined like 78DW was. But I can't find it either, if it exists. -- Kyrielle

Lee	25 Nov 2002
Kyrielle is right, there are three different Haindl books, and it gets very confusing. They are: The Haindl Tarot: The Major Arcana by Rachel Pollack published by Newcastle Publishing, ISBN 0-87877-155-7 (revised version by a different publisher has just been published, see my link to the B&N entry in my post above) The Haindl Tarot: The Minor Arcana by Rachel Pollack published by Newcastle Publishing, ISBN 0-87877-156-5 (revised version by a different publisher has just been published, see my link to the B&N entry in my post above) The Haindl Tarot: A Reader's Handbook by Rachel Pollack published by U.S. Games, ISBN 1-57281-220-6 This is the book which U.S. Games is packaging with the deck and selling as a deck/book set. The text is different from that of her earlier two books, it's more geared toward reading with the deck as opposed to discussions of the symbolism. You can buy the book separately. I would recommend this deck for people who want an introduction to the deck without necessarily wanting to spend great amounts of time studying it. It's a good book which still covers the symbolism, etc. You can read more about the differences between the books in my review, which discusses the deck and all three books (but not the revised versions of the first two books, which were published after the review). Since the revised editions of the first two books have only recently been published, I personally doubt very much that there will be a one-volume edition in the near future. Whew! :) -- Lee

The Does anyone know?---- thread was originally posted on 23 Nov 2002 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.