Up against the big guns

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 19 Nov 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Kazz	19 Nov 2002
Hi all, Recently I have had a great deal of interest in my cafe readings,( only advertised last week, no bookings yet, but alot of interest is flooding in ) today, 2 guys came to inquire what I was like. They have been to a cafe in the main town which has readings by a 'Clairvoyant'. This cafe has just recently closed down and she now does readings privately. These guys have been to this woman a number of times and say that she is very good! These guys want to book for a reading and they asked the following questions about me...... Does this reader tape record the readings? How long do the readings go for? is she any good? etc etc etc.....? This Clairvoyant charges $60.00 for a 1/2 hour reading. She has the readings tape recorded for clients. I am charging $15.00 for ..? I haven't thought about how much time I will read for, never thought about tape recording, but I was to have a notepad a pencil so that the client can write down significant aspects of the reading. The big thing of this is, I am NOT clairvoyant! So now, I feel very, very inexperienced, and I think I will disappoint these guys in the fact that I am not 'clairvoyant' and only a mere tarot reader (who, mind you, is just starting to read pro). I am nowhere near as experienced as this woman, and I am worried that I will be of disappointment to some. I was wondering how to explain myself to people, in the regard of psychic/clairvoyance!! and just a TAROT READER! Has anyone else had this happen to them? I would love some advice on what and how I go about presenting myself as so not to confuse people. Thanks Cheers Kazz :TQC :edited to add: BTW My daily card for today was 3 Pentacles (rev) Mmmmmm!!!!!

lupo138	19 Nov 2002
you do not have to challenge the "clairyoyant". You do not need to tape the reading. The only thing you have to do is having a look at your cards and listen to your inner voice and giving your clients a good feeling, what has to do with sympathy and so on. People that want to go to the mighty allknowing clairvoyent would maybe cause you problems anyway, ´cause they tend to put different readers into a competition with each other. So: There is nothing to be afraid of. You will do your best. You have nothing to loose: If you are successful, i will be ok. If not, time will maybe come for that later. There are always better and more experienced people on any field, so why not in tarot ? And, to my personal believe: A person that proclaims the gift of clairvoyence in the public is not all too likely to really have it. Know what I mean ? Best wishes L.

Dark Inquisitor	19 Nov 2002
I think you should relax ! You have not advertised yourself as a clairvoyant, you have nothing to apologise for. I am sure your new clients will be very happy just not having to pay 60.00 for a half an hour! If you feel you must explain , you might say that your bargain prices reflect your new reader status. Their curiosity about you might be only because they are trying to make sure that they are not going to be getting a reading from a con artist or a person with a bad reputation. Tarotphelia

WillieHewes	19 Nov 2002
Just explain to them that you don't read their mind or their future, just their cards. As long as you don't pretend to be something you're not, you're not doing anything wrong. Just say you charge $15 for 'a reading'. It will go on for as long as it has to. And you don't need a taperecorder. That's what people have memories for. A notepad's a good idea though. Explain you're not in it for the money, and I think they'll be able to appreciate the lack of unnecessary frill. Willie - unnecessary frill

Eviemay	19 Nov 2002
I find this quiet common. Because I read Tarot cards people presume I'm psychic, which I'm not. I always explain that I have studied the cards and simply interpret their meanings within the reading, nothing more. As for recordings of the readings, I think it's a nice idea to have a tape recordings of them, but this would probably push your prices up. Most people would probably prefare cheaper readings and a note pad and pen to write things down. It's probably a good idea to set a time limit for your readings. Useful if you have a client that seems to stay forever, especially if you have others waiting. That way both you and client know where you stand. Hope this is of help. Bright Blessings, Evie

Teal	19 Nov 2002
Be sure to hold your ground and respect yourself. Don't waffle because you're new at reading the cards. You're still sincere and dedicated and that's what matters most. As another poster said, the person who claims openly to be clairvoyant probably isn't. Those with this gift tend to be humble about it, not so prone to capitalize on the gift openly for money. You're worthy of your hire, as they say, and in dealing with the paying public, you're going to find those people who mistake humility for weakness and try to take advantage of it, so don't let that happen. Just keep your chin up and do your best. I'm sure you'll do very well. Your time and skill are ever bit worth the $15. You may be surprised if these guys get a reading----they may actually like yours better than hers. Tape recorded readings? The flamboyant clairvoyant , huh? LOL The note pad and pen will be much appreciated, I'm sure. No need to record your readings, I don't think, and especially at the low price. Personally, I think it would distract me from the reading, knowing that I was "on stage" with a tape recorder. I wish you all the luck. I'd certainly buy and trust a reading from you. Teal

Fuzzmello	19 Nov 2002
Kazz, First of all, you're head and shoulders above me in the straight-on department due to your cafe table readings. Bravo, my dear! The very idea of reading in a public place would have scared me silly. I started reading for friends in my home and word got around. I eventually started filling in for the "pros" at a little book & mystics shop in town. The chicken route! I like the idea of giving the client some kind of record of the reading. I think experienced clients remember their readings, but many don't and to my mind, that sort of "wastes" it. I provide a legal pad and suggest they write the question down and take whatever notes they wish. Most take me up on it. I guess the tape recorder is another version of the same thing, but that's about it. There are other readers around here and we all have our different qualities. I'm far from the best, but I have my regulars, so I guess I'm doing ok. Why don't you go see the clairvoyant and see for yourself the similarities in your readings and hers? If she's really clairvoyant, she probably has some idea about you and what you're about already. Maybe she's a friend awaiting discovery! Fuzz

Dark Inquisitor	19 Nov 2002
Hmmm. Kazz- all of a sudden this situation reminded me of something that came up in a going pro reading I did for you in the reading exchange in July..... Tarotphelia

fairyhedgehog	19 Nov 2002
Hi Kazz, This sounds nerve-wracking (sp?) but I hope you can manage not to worry. As others here have said, you are giving value for money. Your clients will receive half an hour (say) of your undivided attention, your knowledge of the cards, your ability to make sense of the fall of the cards in relation to someone's life. If they choose to assume that all tarot readers are psychic, well that is up to them. I'm not sure I'd get defensive and insist on telling people that, you can afford simply to answer any questions honestly. I hope it all goes well for you, as you deserve it to :)

MystiqueMoonlight	19 Nov 2002
First of all Kazz, most people around these parts say they are "clairvoyant" simply because they have studied the LWB of the cards and believe every one of their readings to be accurate. I'm not trying negate this other reader, but it seems around Sydney (I'm not sure where you are, but I refer to the greater Metropolitan area) anyone who reads the cards refer to themselves as clairvoyant. I have watched a few around the city and listened to a few in the books stores when they are reading and some of the stuff they say is incredibly humurous. Like "I can see a man with dark hair", the response usually from an excited sitter :"yes that would be my boss" and the reader "yes it is a man of authority". People often go to these "clairvoyants" inadvertently feeding them information as the reading progresses. Some of them are very clever at extracting the information. I know one reader in Sydney who charges $70 actually has the sitter complete a questionaire prior to the reading and she is said to be one of the best in town. When I do a reading I tell the sitter they are not allowed to comment or say anything during the reading unless it is a specific question. You will be fine. However I do suggest that you ask more than $15, for some reason the more you charge the more credible you seem to the public. What you can do is offer a discount to return clients. But having said that I would tell those clients to not to depend on constant readings, to limit them to maybe one every 2 months or 4 a year. Of course you only suggest this if the come back for a second reading not after the first. It sounds like you are goating them into more business and that's not what you want to do. You are not a "mere Tarot reader". Clairvoyants are not as common a they seem to be within our society. There is no challenge for you. Do your readings and pay no concern to any other reader you may hear about. So called "clairvoyant" or not. Blessings upon you readings. Let us know how you get along.

Mystica	19 Nov 2002
You've already got some great advice in this thread, but what's one more? First of all, "a mere Tarot reader," I don't think so! You're one of my heros because of the fact that you're brave enough to take this step in the first place. Don't allow yourself to be compared to someone else. You have not misrepresented yourself in any way. Besides, you would not be at the point you are now if you were not capable of giving insightful, intuitive readings with compassion and empathy. It will be different with each client. You will develop some regulars, people that you really "connect" with, talk to and relate with. Others may have less sincere motivations, but you WILL know what to say to those people when the time comes. What I want to say is, have confidence Kazz, YOU CAN DO THIS! I know you are nervous. I haven't even got the courage to read in public yet, and here I am giving advice. But you have the courage and you're going to love this once you get started. I think the first step is the hardest. Please let us know before your 1st day, you have all these friends on the forum and you can count on us to send good energy your way! With all of us wishing you the best, that's a powerful thing... Show only confidence, never let 'em see you sweat!! LOL Blessings, Vianne

Marion	19 Nov 2002
I had to laugh at the earlier post about clairvoyants. I love tarot reading and my friends will only tolerate so much. I have to travel a lot and airplanes get boring, so if my seat mate strikes me as a likely victim, I just get out my cards and play with them, and they generally ask for a reading. Well my last one really demonstrated to me how those charlatans get away with it. She asked me about her and her hubby having a possible move to Texas (from rural New Brunswick, erk). So I turned the cards, and there he is a wishy washy mama's boy and there she is a romantic idealist who is getting tired of him. And there is mama-in-law. So I go in really cagey, because she *did* ask about Texas. Well, an hour and half later, having heard every detail of her marriage, she was telling me how wonderful I was and how did I know all that? Guess what? I said very little!! She latched onto every hint I dropped and expanded it beyond belief. And gave me credit. I was left shaking my head. :D Who says air travel has to be boring?

Thirteen	19 Nov 2002
Agree with everyone else. I'll only add this: You're charging $15 for a 1/2 hour reading. You have to put a limit on the time, otherwise you'll end up going for as long as the person on the other side of the table can push it. And that's not good. Don't feel you need to up the price to compete. $15 for half-an-hour is very reasonable. And you don't need more than 1/2 an hour for a solid reading. If they want more, follow up readings, readings on different questions, then you charge them another $15. Just be up front about it. After you've earned a reputation, put months and readings behind you, gotten the hang of this, you can up your price to what you think and know it's worth given your experience, ability and how much work you put into those 30 minutes.

Kazz	19 Nov 2002
Thankyou all for your kinds words and support....It really means alot...:D Vianne......you put a great BIG:D on my face...thankyou for you words of encouragement. Tarotphelia....Yes,yes..I am going to have a look at that reading, as I can recall something of this nature coming up in it. Mystic Moonlight......I know exactly what you mean about the way so-called-"clairvoyants" word thier interpretations. BTW...I live in Port Macquarie, and the cafe is about 1/2 an hour out of town in a place called Telegraph Point to everyone else.......again thanks for all your advice. I wasn't terribly rattled by this, but just not expecting questions about me in regards to how I read etc, etc, Like the advice given here, I will be me, and nothing more. This hasn't diminished my confidence in any way, just a feeling of doubt in the learning dept.....but in saying that, I think I will learn more from 'actually' reading for people, than just study and self readings. The recording thing...well i agree, it would put me off a bit, so I am sticking to the notepad instead. As far as the fee goes, I don't think a reading should be about "how much" it costs, only to say that reward for helping others in need shouldn't be expensive. I beleive you shouldn't have to pay alot of money for a card reading, only.... you are giving a service and you should be paid for that service. The readings will be $20.00...$15.00 to me......$5.00 to my sister-in-law (the owner of the cafe) who offered to give the clients a cappuccino as the come in for the readings. Well I thankyou all for the replies , they were of great help. I will keep you all posted on the progress (hopefully I will start soon) and with you guys behind me...how can I possibly go wrong;) Cheers Kazz :TQC

Kazz	19 Nov 2002
Marion......thankyou for sharing you little 'airbourne' story.....it was good. I have had 2 readings in a row that have been the same, I don't say much at all, and yet they elaborated on every little thing that i said, I found it strange at first, as they were answering their own questions, and couldn't beleive how I knew so much about them...Err some would say these people are a tarot reader's dream. Thirteen......Yes I see what you mean about putting a limit on "time", thankyou for giving great advice (as usual..:D) this has been very helpful. Cheers Kazz :TQC

jmd	19 Nov 2002
I'm obviously late with this thread... so I'll just echo lupo138 'you do not have to challenge the "clairyoyant". You do not need to tape the reading. The only thing you have to do is having a look at your cards and listen to your inner voice' and send you thoughts of encouragement (:))!

Kazz	19 Nov 2002
Jmd....thankyou for your reply.......and yes..I think Lupo138 and you are right and I will remember that if I start to feel like I am in contention with that. Thanks for sending my encouragement, it's working already..:D:D:D:D Cheers Kazz :TQC

lawguy51	20 Nov 2002
Hi Kazz: I'm late to this thread too but I found it a fascinating read and I echo everyone else's thoughts. The service you provide is just as valid as the clairvoyant's. It's like you're both architects building a house, only she's got more workers helping her! But don't be intimidated. My clairvoyant friend asks me for readings a few times a week. Maybe you should offer to give her/him one!

lupo138	20 Nov 2002
@Kazz: It made my day, that I could encourage you a bit. @jmd: It made my day a second time, that you even quoted me. *blush*

juice	20 Nov 2002
Late to the thread too. It is going to be hard to add anything meaningful. I suggest you consider before hand if you will allow taping for the off chance that that rare querent wants to turn on their own recorder. You can say no if you are not comfortable with the idea. I like the legal pad though and may get in the habbit of asking people to write down their question before I start shuffling. Good luck!

zorya	20 Nov 2002
another latecomer here, about the notepad and pencil.... if asked about taping, you can explain that you prefer paper and pen, because this gets the client involved in their own reading. (the more involved they are, the more value the reading will have to them.)

Teal	20 Nov 2002
Also, some study or other years ago proved that anything a person writes down stays in their memory better than just trying to remember without writing it down.

MystiqueMoonlight	20 Nov 2002
I'd like to refer you to this:- http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/articles/reading_for_others.html I think Umbrae summed it all up quite well.

DeLani	21 Nov 2002
Such good advice...I can't add a whole lot. I have been reading pro for about 9 yrs. now. Or maybe more. I can't remember. Anyway, first, I would go to this clairvoyant and offer to trade readings. $60 a half-hour seems very steep. But meeting her and seeing what she does would be helpful. As it was said before, she might be a friend. I would also agree with charging a bit more for your readings. A half-hour is a good time block, I suppose. As I've said elsewhere, I tell my clients that I give them as long as it takes. But if things aren't wrapping up in a reasonable amount of time, I either suggest another reading (at a lower rate) or for them to schedule another appt. ("There are obviously a lot of issues at play here. Maybe we should meet again next week and see where it goes from there.") But that's just me. I guess I'm the only reader in the world who doesn't like putting myself or my client on a timer. Good luck!

The Up against the big guns thread was originally posted on 19 Nov 2002 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.