Why is it...

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 26 Nov 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

dangerdork	26 Nov 2002
... that the vast majority of great tarot artists seem to be women? Pamela Coleman Smith and Lady Frieda Harris immediately come to mind as the artists of the two decks which are the most important precursors to modern decks, and obviously Robin Wood's and Mary Hanson Roberts' work is predominant in contemporary tarot art, to name but a very few. My current favorite "Art" deck, the Art Nouveau tarot from Lo Scarabeo, is by Antonella Castelli (sounds like a woman's name to me). So I would wildly guess that about 80% of the decks that really set standards, and are used widely, are created by women artists. I read somewhere that when tarot was making the transition from a card game to a divinatory tool, particularly among the gypsies, that women especially were thought to have much more affinity for the tarot than men. But the predominance of female artists is just an observation I've made, and never really seen any commentary on. Is it just me?

cricket	26 Nov 2002
Woman's intuition? ;) You're not alone in noticing this. A lot of it might be the historical references to women handling the cards more than men, which would make it seem a less masculine thing to be caught doing, which would make men reluctant to use/design a deck. Speaking in general terms, of course.

MystiqueMoonlight	26 Nov 2002
Uh oh! There's that can of worms again :)

MeeWah	26 Nov 2002
Very interesting observation. Whilst that may be true of this century, I do not think it was the case prior. The decks that are older seem to have been designed by men.

DeLani	26 Nov 2002
Quote: Originally posted by MeeWah Very interesting observation. Whilst that may be true of this century, I do not think it was the case prior. The decks that are older seem to have been designed by men. I think that that was because women weren't really allowed to be artists (for the most part). IMHO, I think that the reason that there's so many female tarot artists is because for quite some time now, mostly women have been reading and working with the tarot. Yes, there was the Golden Dawn, but it was a small, secret society, and both Waite and Crowley needed an artist to manifest their ideas, & I think they chose female artists specifically for the male/female balance thing. But for the general population, I think historically it was mostly women who were readers. I think it still is, to a certain extent (No offense, guys!), so it's a population thing - since the majority of people who get into tarot are female, then the artists who come from that sample will be mostly female. It's just a theory.

dangerdork	27 Nov 2002
Quote: Originally posted by MeeWah The decks that are older seem to have been designed by men. The key phrase being "seem to." Those two important decks I mentioned before aren't called the "Pixie Smith" deck or the "Lady Harris" deck, now are they? I wonder how many decks throughout history were defined by the "expert" men but actually drawn by women? I sort of agree with DeLani, but all the famous esoteric tarot writers even before Waite, Case, Crowley and the rest of the Golden Dawn bunch were men - Gebelin, Etteilla (sp?), Papus, Maxwell, et al. So men WERE into tarot, but spouting off their invented "secret knowledge" whereas maybe it was always the women who dominated the actual creation of the images which have been passed down through the years...

Laurel	27 Nov 2002
The Golden Dawn had, for its time, a very novel and equalitarian approach to women as magicians. While the egos of folks like Mathers, Crowley, Waite, etc., made it very difficult for them to treat anyone as an respected equal, they certainly acknowledged the importance of women within magic albeit usually as "lesser" or receptive partners, a pseudo 'natural' enactment of the duality of Chokmah and Binah or the Alchemical Marriage. I've never seen doccumentation to suggest Waite/Crowley deliberately chose female artists over equally "qualified" men, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was a deliberate element of it consciously or unconsciously for reasons brushed on above. Laurel

MystiqueMoonlight	27 Nov 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Laurel The Golden Dawn had, for its time, a very novel and equalitarian approach to women as magicians. While the egos of folks like Mathers, Crowley, Waite, etc., made it very difficult for them to treat anyone as an respected equal, they certainly acknowledged the importance of women within magic albeit usually as "lesser" or receptive partners, a pseudo 'natural' enactment of the duality of Chokmah and Binah or the Alchemical Marriage.Laurel Where does that place Dion Fortune, one of the original members to GD, then? I hardly think she was considered "lesser" to her male counterparts.

Shadow Wolf	27 Nov 2002
Do they know what they've been missing out on???????

Emily	27 Nov 2002
Before I'd read this thread, I hadn't noticed that all of my decks except the Ancient Egyptian and the 1JJ Swiss have been drawn by women lol :)

Mojo	27 Nov 2002
Quote: Originally posted by cricket Istanbul was Constantinople. Now it's Intanbul, not Constantinople. If you've a date in Constantinople she'll be waiting in Istanbul. --They Might Be Giants Cricket.... while They Might Be Giants can be credited with the most recent version of this song, it's not fair to give them writer's credits.... The song was originally a top ten hit in 1953 performed by the Four Lads.... Words by Jimmy Kennedy and Music by Nat Simon

zander770	28 Nov 2002
Quote: Originally posted by DeLani Yes, there was the Golden Dawn, but it was a small, secret society, and both Waite and Crowley needed an artist to manifest their ideas, & I think they chose female artists specifically for the male/female balance thing. lest we forget, sandra tabatha cicero WAS the artist, too, of the new ritual golden dawn tarot deck, circa 1991! ~Z~770 })

MystiqueMoonlight	28 Nov 2002
I'm gonna go out on a limb here.... Why then if we are blowing the feminist trumpet are these decks all inspired, imagined and conceptualised by men? It has nothing to do with any sexist attitude or the fact that women are better or just as good or anything else for that matter in the mundane sense. (I hope I'm not offending anyone here because that's not my intent). Is it so strange that man and woman can actually co-exist in this modern world? Does one have to be better, smarter or more artistic than the other? Is the Divine not both masculine and feminine? Yin and Yang? Whilst this topic is yet again discussed I hope those who respond or focus on this understand the necessity to be in touch with both your own personal Yin and Yang energies. To become more intuitive or focused I believe one must be comfortable with the masculine and feminine personality within. Sure we could argue that in this day and age, and historically, women were never considered equal to man and all the rest of it. But the way I see it... is that not part of the reason we claim to be esoterics, witches, Tarotists or whatever. To understand that basic principle of the Yin Yang? To develop our Souls in this journey of discovery? To rise above and to guide others? To find that equilibrium that actually does exist in every living thing? I respect there have been great women artists who have had a hand in creating beautiful decks, decks that were essentially conceptualised by great men. I thank the Divine that "people" have had the opportunity to explore and grow and to teach other "people" that same path through their understanding of the Tarot. Personally I think the issue of women artists painting the cards rather than men to be a moot point. I find it wonderful that both men and women, that is "people" or "humankind" have had a part in this. I recognise the merit of the Divine and the balance of the creative forces that have come to display the Tarot in images we all, All Of Us, can understand and relate to. Blessed be

SlyR	28 Nov 2002
As a gambling/probability enthusiast, my first reaction to the fact that a majority of decks seem to be illustrated by women is this: Given that most of us are familiar with maybe just a couple dozen decks, we haven't seen enough data to support the fact that, if there were a larger sample size, women would create significantly more Tarot art than men. The imbalance that seems to exist is totally within the realm of probability. However, I personally think that because Tarot is a combination of both Art and Occult - each being an intuitive, creative pursuit - women might have a greater natural affinity, much in the same way that men seem to have a greater affinity for more left-brained pursuits like science and technology. Of course, MystiqueMoonlight was right on in saying that it really doesn't matter anyway. Whoever contributes to the art and science of Tarot is doing good work.

lupo138	29 Nov 2002
I think the answer is very, very simple: drawing a deck is an enormous amount of work. Men tend to be lazy. So they donīt draw decks, because it is too strenous for them. Thatīs it - nothing else. (I really have to know: I am male) L.

The Why is it... thread was originally posted on 26 Nov 2002 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.