Need help

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 08 Dec 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Yami Yugi	08 Dec 2002
I just love tarot. But my friend and his family is baptist. He caught some of mine the other day. and is now mad at me. I desperately need some advice!!!!!!!!!!!!! I plead mercy. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! sorry get a bit carried away sometimes.?

RedWood	08 Dec 2002
Well..could you explain tarot and why you use it?

Yami Yugi	08 Dec 2002
at how red his face was at me earlier today. Go fig. Apparently NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

RedWood	08 Dec 2002
what are you saying? in your last post!

Yami Yugi	08 Dec 2002
he won't even listen.

RedWood	08 Dec 2002
then wait for him to calm down...then see what you can do...

Teranar	08 Dec 2002
Maybe you could ask him what about tarot he finds so offensive? Maybe he dislikes it because of misconceptions.

violinlily	08 Dec 2002
((((((((((Yami Yugi)))))))))))) **Giving you a big cookie for the hard situation you're in.** I hate to say this, but if your friend can't (how do I say this w/o being tooooo offensive :() understand you and what you consider important, then they aren't really your friend. Real friends would swallow most of their objections (to a point), and maybe even try to understand the problem. This person might have had something else that was one their mind then, and/or might have been having a bad day, so it might be a total misunderstanding. (I speak from experience, as this has happened to me, and probably to others on the forum). Religion might have nothing to do w/ it. If you consider what I just said mean, the I agree w/ teranar, that you could ask them what they find offensive. I hope that this might have helped!!! I also hope that you can, shall I say, "hug and make up" (not knowing how close you guys are). Hope the next few days are better than the last ones,

Yami Yugi	08 Dec 2002
That's it I'm gonna hurl!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! UUUUUUGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHhh!! But on a more serious note his family left early for his christmas vacation today. He's so lucky he's home school. I could do with a free week of math. my parents aren't even affected by me using the cards. It's cool because I play really well in band and make decent grades that way they in no adverse way. that said I can't wait until tuesday to see all those people who pick on me pounded in the dirt at the concert when they break a reed or if they miss 3 notes in the song jolly old saint nicholas.or if they take their horns down from a repeat sign. MMMMMMWWWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HudsonGray	09 Dec 2002
Actually, when it comes down to it, what you do is your own business not anyone else's. If he's got a problem with it it's not really your problem, it's his. #1 your family is ok with it. #2 you like tarot #3 it can't hurt you & you know it If he chooses to remain ignorant & afraid of it, that's his business. He's got a very closed mind right now & you're not going to be able to open it for him till he's had time to adjust. It might help, at a later date, to mention that 'you know, there ARE decks showing angels & saints as the cards' and maybe work from there (theme decks cover the entire range so you have some wiggle room if you do want to get him to understand). You can also tell him that while tarot goes back to the 1400's the cards were NOT on the list of bad things that the inquisition looked for. (They weren't. Since the cards were being used by the upper classes, the church didn't want to tick off their benefactors & left the cards off any 'nasty' lists when they went out on their witch hunt murders). Find out, when he's calmed down, what he finds so frightening about the cards, and don't get defensive. Ask if he wants an explanation of how a deck works and what the cards tend to represent, and how a reading actually works. Explain they're cardboard & paper & aren't tools of any devil, that they work with connecting to your own subconscious to find answers to questions you want to know. Stay calm & scientific & be patient. Don't apologise or act like it's a secret addiction--be right up front and act in a 'hey, you ride in cars, do you get upset about internal combustion engines?' sort of way. If you act as if it's completely natural it'll send a good message. If you're defensive, that sends a totally different message. But be prepared for closed minds. He may just have to live with you doing something he's afraid of.

Teranar	09 Dec 2002
I think HudsonGray nailed it You could also point out tarot had its beginnings in christianaty (Didn't the herphiant originally represent the pope?) and many believe that using tarot cards is just a way of god talking to you (a good friend of mine thinks that way) so you could also throw that in!

wakeboarder	09 Dec 2002
I've got a few questions for you. Question 1: How did he catch a peek at them if you didn't want him to? That's like someone catching you going the bathroom. If you really didn't want him to see you (which is totally understandable), then why'd you let him inside the house/room/sleeping compartment/etc. before you put the cards up. I apologize if I'm being a little bit too mean/sarcastic for you, but I have hid them from family and friends for a year now. Question 2: How old are you? I'm different from many people here in the fact that I hang out in teen chats with immature people who say things just to be stupid and get in fights (also known as trolls). I'm sorry to say this, but a lot of what you have said is kind of immature (the excessive exclamation marks, and the stringing out of your words). I apologize again if I'm wrong about the age thing. Maybe I feel that the average person here is very mature even for teenagers. Question 3: Has your buddy even said anything after he saw the cards? If he hasn't, then it probably wasn't that big of a deal. I know it was a surprise the first time I saw my aunt pull out her tarot deck and give me a reading. I nearly said some things that wouldn't be respectable in the least (about her and the tarot cards), but then again she is the one who got me into the cards. By the way, she's the one person in my family that knows about them. You should probably ask him why he got all "red". If it was surprise, then that's not a problem. You just need to "inform" him of the coolness of tarot. If not, then you should probably inform him anyways, unless you aren't serious about tarot and then you could drop that instead of confront him. Either way, you need to do something about it. One other thing, IIIIIIIFFFFFFFF YYYYYYYYYOOOOOOOOUUUUUUU AAAAAAAARRRRRRREEEEEEEEE GGGGGGGOOOOOIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNGGGGGG TTTTTTTTOOOOOOOO PPPPPOOOOOOOSSSSSSTTTTT HHHHHEEEEEERRRRRRRREEEEEEE, DDDDDDDOOOOOOONNNNNNNTTTTTTTTTTTTT DDDDDDDOOOOOOOO TTTTTTTHHHHHHHHIIIIIIIIISSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111 ~Wakeboarder P.S. I can't wait to see Lord of the Rings next Friday! :D

Alex	10 Dec 2002
"Ai eu quero, eu quero tanto que você me aceite do jeito que eu sou" Cazuza Translating: "Oh, I wish, I wish so much you would accept me just the way I am" See if you get me: he has to accept AND respect you the way you ARE !!!!!!!!!!! If he can't approach your beliefs with respect and curiosity, he isn't good for you. Alex.

HudsonGray	11 Dec 2002
I agree with you Wakeboarder, the long strung out words are juvenile. Teens are completely welcome to post (if that's indeed the age the poster is), but from the content of the site, they should be aware that they're mostly talking to adults here. We don't shorten our words '2 B kewt', we use regular English. And we dump all the exclamation marks & most of the emoticons (not all of them, but they are generally restricted to one or two, not dumped 8 in a row). Calm down Yami Yugi, we can understand you nice & clear without the drama. We'll do our best to help.

Teal	11 Dec 2002
It's very true that if your friend is really your friend, then he'll accept your tarot. If he makes a fuss about it, then two things are probably true: 1. He's not really a friend. 2. He could be a very controlling person not able to practice the unconditional acceptance and caring that are so essential in person-to-person dealings. You might find that if you were to let him continue within your personal "space", he might make you very uncomfortable with many more things about yourself that you're very wonderful and unique for being. I suggest that you just let it roll off your back. His opinion is HIS stuff, and you don't have to let it become yours. You love tarot, so that's just great. Don't let anyone rain on your parade. He's just one opinion-----look at all the great people you're with here on this forum who think you're A-OK for being a tarotist. Hugs! Teal

Dark Inquisitor	11 Dec 2002
I am sad & ashamed. Yami Yugi has just arrived here, made 4 posts, is basically our guest--and already we are criticizing. S/he has made a thread about something that is really hurting & frightful, and we have to talk about presentation & how things "should" be said. If a person is young, accept them at whatever stage they're at & communicate with them there. Do we go to visit a stranger's house & tell them how the sofa would look better another way, or how blue drapes are really out this year? Especially if they are upset ? Meanwhile, Yami Yugi, you are dealing with a Memphis baptist. Nothing inherently wrong with either, but if I were you, I would practice walking on the other side of the street when you see them coming & not waste any more breath. The sooner you do that, the sooner you can find people who will appreciate you. Tarotphelia

Yami Yugi	12 Dec 2002
Wakeboarder's right I sure can't wait to see lord of the rings on the 18th P.S. I'm 13 turning 14 on the 17th of DEC.

RedWood	12 Dec 2002
My birthday is on the 17th also Yami!

Teal	12 Dec 2002
Well said, Tarotphelia! I feel the same way you do about how Yami Yugi was talked down to. I don't feel it was called for. I didn't say so, because I don't know everyone here that well, but I hoped my post would soothe the sting of the posts before that one for Yami. Now I feel the need to say what I have on my mind. I have grandkids your age, Yami, and while they might do and say things like a "kid", I celebrate the fact that they're young, healthy and exuberant enough to be doing the things "kids" do. When I said not to let anyone rain on your parade, I meant that. Not anyone! I'm "old" and I might not really have the zip for some of the things kids do or always appreciate their ways, but when I WAS a kid, I vowed never to forget what it was like to be young and be treated in abusive ways, so I try to treat youngsters like I wish I had been treated, even if they do kind of irritate "old" me sometimes. Too often, people on the internet use the fact that they're anonymous behind a computer screen to be very "in your face" and rude, and then usually pass it off as "well, it's easy to take things wrongly when you're reading written words and can't see faces and hear voice inflections and I didn't mean it like it sounded----yadda yadda." Hogwash! Nasty is nasty any way you express it and it comes across nasty. I don't want to make anyone here mad at me, but if I do, then so be it. Welcome to the forum, Yami. I wish I had been able to start studying tarot at your young age. Instead, I started only a couple of months ago. I wish you well with it and you can learn a lot here. Most of the people here are very nice people. Take the criticism and learn from it, but don't let it bruise your heart. Easier said than done at 13, I know. Maybe those who weren't kind were having a bad day. You never know.

dangerdork	12 Dec 2002
Wow, HudsonGray, that was really well said. He's a smart guy (I THINK he's a guy?) Yugi, pay attention to that post :)

wakeboarder	13 Dec 2002
I'm sorry if I sounded angry and criticizing; I tend to be overly sarcastic. I have no problems with teenagers, since I am one, but you do have to remember that this is a rather mature board and we tend to keep things as mature as possible. I do stick with my remarks about the cards being a surprise to your friend and that you should talk to him about them. People are usually freaked out by things like this if you aren't a person usually recongnized as someone who would do tarot. For example, I am considered a relatively popular person at my school (not being egotistical, just giving a personal example) and if the fact that I do tarot got around school, people would be extremely freaked out, but if several people who wear gothic t-shirts and all black were to do tarot, it wouldn't be a big surprise. I know a lot of that sounds bad, but it is as close to the truth as I can explain without using facial expressions. ~Wakeboarder P.S. I disagree with the analogy about being a guest in someone else's house, since he is new here rather than us being new to his "house". He would be considered a "guest" here (I could be considered a guest also since I have very few posts).

Trogon	14 Dec 2002
Yami... first off... Big welcome to the forum! Glad to have you with us. :D As for the problem... it's a tough one, but I think you've gotten some pretty good advice so far. I've had to drop "friends" in the past because of their prejudices - though in those cases, they weren't about Tarot they were about other issues. But it was hard to do... especially the first time. But, as others have suggested, if you try to explain about Tarot to your friend and all he can respond with is "it's evil!!!" (said in my best Southern Baptist accent) then perhaps he isn't as much of a friend as you might think. I'd be willing to bet that you've got other friends, perhaps better ones... and if you don't yet, you will. As for birthdays... this is rather interesting as well... my wife's birthday is Dec. 17th as well... LOL. Must have been a good day to be born on. If I remember correctly... 14 was a pretty good age to be. I think you should stay there as long as you can... at least a year... or two... ;) And if you feel like shouting and having fun... go ahead... I have ear plugs. Feeling older by the minute...

Logiatrix	14 Dec 2002
Y. Y., i know what you are dealing with, yami... my story: i lost a friend very specifically because of my interest in tarot. she tended to pick up things and look at them, from wherever they were sitting in my home when she visited--even my mail. this never really bothered me, but it was very clearly a habit unique to her! anyway, that's how she saw a tarot book of mine on my coffee table. she assumed it was my sister's book, since she already knew that my sister was a practicing wiccan. next came the speech, "honey, watch out for that tay-rot stuff that your sister's playing with--it's just more of that witchcraft, it's evil, and i have the bible to back me up on that." i remained silent, just nodded, and let her keep her assumptions for a little while. (yes, she said "tay-rot", like it rhymes with "carrot". :D ) however... there came a point, a short time after that incident, where i decided that tarot was not going to be just a passing interest for me, so i told this same friend that it was ME who was "playing" with the cards, owned the book she saw, and i rather enjoyed it all. her response was rather volatile, so i also said that i enjoyed the bible equally well, i was planning to teach my sister ("the witch") tarot, and it's NOT pronounced like "carrot"! i already knew, based on her basic personality, that i would have to choose between my new hobby or my friendship. there were other factors about this relationship, of course, but the common denominator within it all was GROWTH. my discovery of tarot at that particular time was very indicative of my personal growth, and i have stayed on that path. and, oh yeah, the friendship ended. ;) though i am kind of cavalier about it now, the loss of this friendship was certainly unfortunate and unpleasant. i even feared the loss of other friendships for a while, and i was very careful about with whom i shared my new passion. however, this is the only experience i have had--the only individual who has fallen by the wayside; everyone else in my life loves me even more because i can give them readings! looking back, i only mourn what the former friend is missing by maintaining her perspective about tarot. i would love to share this with her. your friend may be one who chooses a different path, that is, NOT your path of tarot. that is all it is--a choice. it is not a judgement about you, your character, or your virtue. true, it is terribly frustrating when others do not see what you see in your passions, especially when it is because of fear. likewise, you will unite with yet others who share your passion completely, such as here on aeclectic. :) p.s. i am an old, crunchy woman who welcomes you and is proud to have another young friend with whom i can chatter on about tarot! :D

Teal	14 Dec 2002
Now that I'm old and can wear purple and learn how to spit (lol) there are some things I've learned are signs that a person will be a good friend and signs that I don't want them in my space. One of the signs is whether or not they'll respect my personal boundaries. A person who comes to my home and gets into my "stuff"------poking into books and other objects and looking at my mail and thinking they can pass judgment on anything I do-----isn't going to be someone I have in my life very long. Even a spouse should respect certain boundaries. The second thing that really annoys me is those folks who just "drop in because they were in the neighborhood" without calling to see if it's convenient. My late husband's family are great violators of that boundary with me. They're doctors and nurses and heaven forbid anyone would ever visit THEM without calling first to see when or if it's convenient. But they just don't seem to deem it likely that I'd have anything better to do than welcome them to my home on a minute's notice with no forewarning and hear all about their latest evangelistic "missionary" trip and to pray with them. I guess we heathens just don't warrant the same courtesy as the "saved". LOL I know the Bible inside out and was a Sunday School teacher at one time----I'm not hosing my feet down because the flames of hell are licking at my heels, thank you very much! Yet another sign of a person won't be in my inner circle of friends-----the person who insists that I need to "get out and do more"----always on the spur of the moment and to keep them company in something THEY like doing. I've been a working person all my life, never having the luxury of time to myself or time to just be alone. I'm not a social butterfly by nature. I like my own company. I cherish my "alone" time because after raising four kids as a single parent, I'm now raising two grandchildren also as a single "parent" and I LIKE being home alone to just scratch where it itches if I want when I get the chance. LOL To make it short, you have every right to explore who you are, BE who you are, and feel good about it the same as the people do who are so rude as to criticize you for not being like them or like they want you to be. Seek out some friends who like what you like and who aren't going to try to change you. You're wonderful just as you are. An old saying is "to thine own self be true" and that means know who you are, respect who you are, and don't waste your time trying to be what someone else thinks you should be.

Yami Yugi	15 Dec 2002
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZahZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ. sorry did you say something? Just Joking. thanks for the advice it really helped.

Dark Inquisitor	16 Dec 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Teal [b] The second thing that really annoys me is those folks who just "drop in because they were in the neighborhood" without calling to see if it's convenient. My late husband's family are great violators of that boundary with me. they just don't seem to deem it likely that I'd have anything better to do than welcome them to my home on a minute's notice with no forewarning and hear all about their latest evangelistic "missionary" trip and to pray with them. Ms. Teal, they are not "in the neighborhood". They are patrolling. They are not calling ahead before dropping by because: a) They have no life of their own. b) They are hoping to catch you at something. c) They are anxious to see exactly how you're keeping house when nobody's around so they can talk about you behind your back ! d) They are scoping out your house for "occult evidence". e) You are on their spontaneous conversion hope list. I have had unpleasant experience along these lines. A relative became a member of some odd Christian branch - they had unusual thoughts about things. Like the color blue being of the devil. If you had a cake with a bit of blue frosting on it at the party, it was a sign. We had a blue bathroom. They wouldn't use that one. Even though I had never seen the devil in there relieving himself in any way, or concealing himself to lie in wait for the unsuspecting flusher. It made no difference. They are on a mission, Ms. Teal. (I suspect you already know this & are making the best of things. ) Sympathies, Tarotphelia

Teal	17 Dec 2002
I had a good laugh from this post, Tarotphelia. LOL They belong to a fundamentalist faith (that shall remain nameless at this point) that believe against wearing jewelry or makeup, wearing any kind of "oppulent" clothing with pretty fabrics or lace and such. Heaven forbid one should not only wear jewelry and this kind of clothing, but also wear toe rings, nail polish on fingernails AND toenails, and ankle bracelets even----and I confess that I love all those things! Chandelier earrings, dramatic eye makeup, diamonds (but mine are CZ cuz I wouldn't pay the price for the real thing even if I had it) and gold, velvet, silk, satin, lace, sexy shoes-----they've caught me with the goods time after time. I guess maybe they feel duty bound to save me from myself and my fiery fate since I always answer the door in full "regalia". ROFL But bless their hearts, they mean well, I'm sure. I do shop at thrift stores, now----I'm not THAT decadent, that I'd squander money on full price stuff. Mostly because I don't have that kind of money, but they could at least give me points for frugality all the same, don't you think?

allibee	17 Dec 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Teal I had a good laugh from this post, Tarotphelia. LOL Yup, me too, hehehe, especially the bit about the "spontaneous conversion hope list" :D :D :D

Trogon	17 Dec 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Teal I had a good laugh from this post, Tarotphelia. LOL Yep... gave me a good chuckle too! Thanks Tarotphelia... reminds me of a few people I've known over the years. Quote: Originally posted by Teal They belong to a fundamentalist faith (that shall remain nameless at this point) that believe against wearing jewelry or makeup, wearing any kind of "oppulent" clothing with pretty fabrics or lace and such. [snip] I guess maybe they feel duty bound to save me from myself and my fiery fate since I always answer the door in full "regalia". Well Teal... I would think they'd be glad you answer the door wearing ! You could have become a nudist... ;)

Keslynn	17 Dec 2002
Wait... blue is the color of the devil? The sky is evil! Everyone hide! Thanks for the warning. I would never have known. But hey, if you decorate all your bathrooms in some kind of blue and give them lots of water to drink... they might stop coming around. ;) Kes

Shadow Wolf	25 Dec 2002
I agree with Tarotphelia, Baptists in general are not very accepting of anything even vaguely considered "pagan". If your friend comes from a strict Baptist family, as I suspect he does since in one of your posts you mentioned that he is home schooled, then you truly are wasting your breath trying to get him to accept tarot. Maybe you could still be friends in spite of it??

Yami Yugi	23 Jan 2003
He is homeschooled oh well. and my mom is catholic my stepdad is lutheran

tarotbear	24 Jan 2003
Dear everyone - I have enjoyed this thread even with some of it's deviations...or deviates ( take your pick). Yami - if you haven't already ( this thread has been up a while) - just forget about your so-called friend and walk away. People who are stifled with tunnel brain vision will never see anything past their turned-up noses. You might consider painting all the window and door frames bright blue, though... Have a better story for you- Friends I had for 25 years. After my partner died and we had 5 cats, I found myself in a situation where I had to move, and quickly, and could not take the cats with me. I was able to place one, but I had to let one go free, one I took to the vet to euthanize, and two I did the euthanasia myself. I am not proud of what I had to do. I did not have any choices. The two friends (who are sisters) set themselves up as judge, jury, and executioners and 'banned' me from their lives, including the wedding of one that I had waited 25 years for. I never expect to hear from them again. If they contact me - I will tell them to go straight to Hell since they obviously care more about animals than people, especially people they have known most of their lives. Can't compare having loving animals destroyed to some jerk objecting to your Tarot deck, but my advice is live your life for yourself and surround yourself with those who love you and will support you, not those who would turn on you.

The Need help thread was originally posted on 08 Dec 2002 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.