Faith

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 23 Jan 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Osher	23 Jan 2003
I once had the thought, one I can't rid myself of, that somehow the tarot (and certainly the pendulum, but another thread) do not like to give yes/no answers to questions that can be quickly verified. The reason is that they would prove or disprove tarot, and so rob it of faith. Maybe I'm wrong, but it's just been a nagging thought that I'd love someone to knock down! (Ooops, just realised I posted in the wrong area!)

tarotbear	24 Jan 2003
I always tell my classes that if you can answer the question yes/no, then flip a coin and not waste your time with tarot cards. Yes/No does not need to know the past, present, or future, or why or how - just yes or no. Tarot works best with questions dealing with : Situations Challanges Improvements Outcomes Tarot does not work well with: Yes/No Friviolous Open-ended questions

Umbrae	24 Jan 2003
Ah yes, the search, the desire, the need, to qualify and quantify. To measure Tarot, or for that matter any oracular device. Denial is a genetic phenomenon that allows us to retain our safe view of an ordinary world in the presence of magic. Ponder this: Prove God. One way or the other. Secular Humanism and the age of reason have done their best to label anything spiritual, as fallacious, mythical, deceptive, fairy-tale like; and a sign of weakness. It has always been their objective to make us believe that only science is true. If it is not tangible, it is a sham, and false-hearted. The weakness of material science is that in addition to rejecting false ideas, it also rejects many true ideas, simply because they cannot be tested by reproducible experiments - but this does not mean the scientific method is worthless, nor that every sort of "New-Age" hocus-pocus is true. There is a point in randomness where patterns can be discerned, a point at which statistics go beyond mean-variance and standard deviations. Where chaos breaks down. This is a point that some call magic, others – God. However, fuzzy-mindedness does not lead to enlightenment. So I say: Prove God, one way or the other. Remember, some things are true whether you believe in them or not.

Osher	24 Jan 2003
I have visions, that come true. I can't prove, either you believe me or not. Readers have read my cards, and known things they shouldn't have. Either something is up, or I'm insane.

Centaur	28 Jan 2003
Quote: Originally posted by tarotbear Tarot does not work well with: Yes/No Friviolous Open-ended questions I would have to agree that it is very difficult to ascertain a yes or no response from a tarot deck, but I would not say that it is impossible. If for instance, a querent were to ask me a question with regards to their relationship, and the cards chosen were The Sun, The Star, and other such happy cards, and if then he or she were to ask me if that relationship was going to be a good one, then I would answer yes. It is the reader who gives the yes or no response, by reflecting on the cards chosen and their positions within a spread. Ofcourse there are no absolutes, and I would NEVER say 'YES' or 'NO'. I would however suggest that the cards 'indicate', 'point to', or 'suggest' yes or no. Also, I have always found tarot cards to be very good to use with open-ended questions. Open ended questions are those questions which entail more than a one word answer; questions getting at the 'why', 'what', and 'how'. In my experience, tarot has been highly useful in answering these questions. For instance, the querent who asks, 'What will happen in my relationship?', or 'How should I approach my financial situation?', etc. And as for frivolous questions, I can't help but thinking that sometimes tarot has a sense of humour of its own. I am reminded of a friend of mine who was sleeping around a rather lot, and drunk one night, asked me to read for him of the consequences of his promiscuity. I asked him to pick a card (I was rather drunk also HEHE), and he picked the King Of Cups. So I then asked him to pick further cards. All watery cups! Three days later, he becomes very itchy indeed, and is diagnosed with a rather bad case of the crabs! Very watery indeed! HAHA. This probably just reflects on my twisted humour! C

Osher	28 Jan 2003
When I was doing professional readings a few years back, someone asked if he would have sex by the end of the year!

Centaur	28 Jan 2003
I suppose we could start a whole new thread on this topic! Stupid tarot questions!

Minos	28 Jan 2003
The tarot can't answer yes/no questions because it can't answer anything. Only you can. The tarot can often help you with that, but it can't do it for you.

Osher	28 Jan 2003
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9013&highlight=silly This is a previous thread on mundane questions.

Alex	30 Jan 2003
a lot of it in his book "Against Method", which I trully reccomend to anyone who wants to gain a broader view on the role "science" and "scientificism" play in our modern society. One of the points he raises in his book goes a little beyond what you are describing: science does not only reject what "cannot be tested". Science rejects many things that have not been sujected to scientific test but which CAN be tested. Acupunture, for example, has been rejected for hundreds of years by modern science EVEN THOUGH it's efficacy is beyond doubt, AND superior to modern medicine for MANY conditions. Paul Feyerabend was a well-known physicist and that I know of, one of the first to fiercely fight for the pursuit of cultural diversity in the practice of science: "may be one day we ought to find a use for the "raindance" and there's no law in science that precludes it from working. It's efficacy has never been "tested". Why? Because it "cannot be tested"? No, just because scientific authorities don't believe that it can work. I also want to remind all of you that some "truths" accepted by modern "science" have not been and are not likely to be subjected to a test. The division of the mind into "ego" "id" and "superego", the "aedipus complex" and even the existance of the unconscious are highly debated, untested AND untestable "truths". Alex. Quote: Originally posted by Umbrae The weakness of material science is that in addition to rejecting false ideas, it also rejects many true ideas, simply because they cannot be tested by reproducible experiments - but this does not mean the scientific method is worthless, nor that every sort of "New-Age" hocus-pocus is true.

Alex	30 Jan 2003
the Tarot is NOT adequate for yes/no questions. Think of a question. "Am I going to find a parking space in school tomorrow if I come around 9:30 AM"? The most likely answer is "no" but what cards would tell me "yes" or "no". If I draw, for example, THE DEATH. Does it mean I'll find parking space? Or not? Yes/no spreads work like flipping coins and that we know does not work. A couple milliion dollars forecast machine in the D.C. area can predict with some 60% accuracy whether it's going to snow within the next 24 hours or not. So... I guess it's just a matter of finding the appropriate "oracle". Alex. Quote: Originally posted by Happiness I once had the thought, one I can't rid myself of, that somehow the tarot (and certainly the pendulum, but another thread) do not like to give yes/no answers to questions that can be quickly verified. The reason is that they would prove or disprove tarot, and so rob it of faith. Maybe I'm wrong, but it's just been a nagging thought that I'd love someone to knock down! (Ooops, just realised I posted in the wrong area!)

Baneemy	02 Feb 2003
I don't believe that there's anything supernatural involved in tarot reading. A spread presents the reader with a random series of evocative images which stimulate the reader's mind to make new connections and look at the question in a new way, often (but certainly not always) with enlightening results. The actual spread is random. It could just as easily have been any other combination of cards. If the cards in your spread are applicable to the question, the reading "works." Good questions, then, are those questions to which a very large percentage of the possible spreads are applicable. Good questions ask for a complex commentary on a complex situation. Relationship readings work because relationships are enormously complicated things with many different facets, and so the chances are good that a randomly selected card will meaningfully address some facet of that relationship. A yes/no question or other question requesting a specific, limited answer won't work very well, because it is too narrow. Too few of the cards will apply to it, and your chances of drawing those cards are slim. -Baneemy

The Faith thread was originally posted on 23 Jan 2003 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.