Names of the trumps in Latin

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 17 Jan 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

ihcoyc	17 Jan 2003
Reading about the Dürer deck set me to wondering. What would the names of the trumps be in Latin? Are there any sources that give them in Latin? My suggestions would be: Fool: FATVVS I. Magician PRÆSTIGIATOR II. Papess PAPISSA III. Empress IMPERATRIX IV. Emperor IMPERATOR V. Pope PAPA VI. Lover AMATOR VII. Chariot CARRVS VIII. Justice IVSTITIA IX. Hermit EREMITA X. Wheel of Fortune ROTA FORTVNÆ XI. Strength FORTITVDO XII. Hanged Man SVSPENSVS XIII. Death MORS XIV. Temperance TEMPERANTIA XV. Devil DIABOLVS XVI. Tower TVRRIS XVII. Star STELLA XVIII. Moon LVNA XIX. Sun SOL XX. Judgment IVDICIVM XXI. World MVNDVS Some of these are pretty easy, like "The Sun." Others are a bit harder to figure, like the Magician or the Papess.

Khatruman	17 Jan 2003
~Goes tearing through the boxes in his attic~ Grrrrr, now where did all those high school Latin books go??!!! WAIT!!! *Reading* "Gaul is divided into three parts.... " Darn, that's the Cliff's Cheat sheet!!!! }) Peace!

Aoife	17 Jan 2003
Amo, amas, amat, amamus, amatis, amant Amanbo, amabis, amabit, amabimus, amabitus, amabunt!!!!!!! I haven't thought of these in more than thirty years, and straight out of my head they popped. So why can't I remember where I left my car keys two hours ago! I deviate - I'm so sorry.

tarotbear	17 Jan 2003
doing noun declension: 'latin' -us, -i, -o, -um, -o -i, -orum, -is, -os, -is QED: latinus, latini, latino, latinum, latino latini, latinorum, latinis, latinos, latinis {for this - my parents sent me to Catholic high school}

ihcoyc	17 Jan 2003
I still sing it in the shower: Qui quæ quod, Cuius, cuius, cuius, Cui, cui, cui, Quem, quam, quod, Quo, qua, quo!

Macavity	17 Jan 2003
Yes, it's amazing what ya remember isn't it: "So she [the prophetess sybil] RAVED while the God [apollo] TWISTED the goad that he held beneath her HEART" - Vergil: Aeneid Book VI Heheh. Sure beat the heck outta some dude with a deck of cards? Hope she got a reasonable hourly rate for all that! (joking) :D Macavity

lupo138	18 Jan 2003
i think the magician would be Magus and the Wheel of Fortune just Fortuna. There will be a technical term for the final judgement as well - for instance Iudicium Dei ( see Apocalypsis Ioannis 14,6). And it would be the Lovers, so Amatores.

jmd	18 Jan 2003
My Latin is read-only, and I would make so many errors in attempts that I'll leave it to all your better skills - for which I am grateful :) I'm not sure what the Magician would be, but it would not be PRÆSTI(DI)GI(T)ATOR - unless that is the one connotation we wish. Likewise, though the Tower may possibly be rendered TVRRIS, what about considering its 'Lightning-Struck House of God' appelation? But a great list indeed, and well worth considering!

ihcoyc	18 Jan 2003
I deliberately avoided Magus for the Magician, since that means originally a Zoroastrian priest, and later could mean any learned man. These did not seem to be good equivalents to Le Bâteleur / Il Battagliere, which specifically mean a sleight of hand operator. Præstigiator (btw, from præstigium, a sleight of hand trick; 'prestidigitator' is a product of folk etymology) seemed closest. There's some controversy as to why the Tower is called Le Maison Dieu in French. It could just as easily be Turris fulgurata, but I went with the Italian version, where the card is simply Il Torre. The Lover(s): in French, L'Amoureux is singular; les amoureux would be plural. In Italian it is Gli Amanti, plural. So you can take your pick. The French, Italian and English names for Judgment (Le Jugement / Il Giudizio) do not specify that it is the judgment of God; I suppose they trust the picture to do the explaining. And to my eye, iudicium Dei refers specifically to trial by ordeal. It's interesting how the process of picking names for the trumps in another language makes you examine the meaning of the original names. Perhaps I should try Norse next. . . .

Macavity	18 Jan 2003
I think that since it's only a small addition, what do WE think to: virga - (a) wand gladius - (a) sword monetarius?? (one) coin poculum (a) cup Yeah, I looked them up! Fool: insanus?, stultus? (Nah! :)) From memory, I was instinctively thinking along the lines of Sacerdos etc. for the pre-christian priest(ess). A version of bateleur would indeed be nice - Much as "aquarius" is a the water bearer? Can't find one though. Hmmm, Gazing at my Marseille, I hadn't realized until this very afternoon that it was indeed L'amoureux (masc. sing) so you do indeed learn something every day. I must admit, fiddling with card designs, I often resort to the shortest (physical) name! :D Macavity P.S. I always think Egyptian Hieroglyphs would be fun - How many years do I have for that? ;)

ihcoyc	18 Jan 2003
For the names of the suits, I would suggest: Cup(s): poculum, pocula Coin(s): denarius, denarii Sword(s): spatha, spathæ Club(s): baculum, bacula The court cards also pose an interesting challenge. Don't see much controversy in Rex, Reges, king(s), or Regina, Reginæ, queen(s). The Knight(s) would either be eques, equites, which is older, or caballarius, caballarii, which is newer, and reflects the names they bear in French and Italian. But what to do with Pages, or Knaves, or Jacks? Here French and Italian disagree among themselves; vâlet is no longer the exact equivalent of fante. The Italian would perhaps be simpler to go with, in which case the lowest court card(s) would be miles, milites, foot-soldier(s). Vâlet is hard to translate because it meant different things over the historical period in which the cards are attested. It originally meant a lesser vassal, a commoner or close to a commoner; in English, it gives us "varlet," not far from "knave," and in French, of course, it came to mean a servant. Servi are the Romans lowest on the social pecking order, but that is a "slave" or "serf" in English. Perhaps it might be best to take the Italian for the original, and go with miles.

catboxer	18 Jan 2003
I feel like a real vultus natiformus when you guys start talking Latin.

Keslynn	18 Jan 2003
Wouldn't a Roman tarot be cool? Does such a thing exist? I would love it. I keep wanting the hierophant to be the "Pontifex" though perhaps it would be more appropriate to the Magician. And as I remembered, gladius was the name for Sword although it refers to the Roman short sword rather than the two handed medieval type swords everyone else thinks of. :) Kes

lupo138	19 Jan 2003
well I agree what you say about the magician, but actually the word derives from there and the Romans themselves had it from "ho magos" from the Greek people - I still think that Magus would be best. I forgot about the tower but as it rather meant a place where a family of the nobility would go to defend themselves - how about Castrum ? I agree with your view to the Lover(s) card. You have got a very interesting signature - is that Norway´s language or what ? It sounds a bit like Tolkien´s Elvish :)

ihcoyc	19 Jan 2003
A castrum is in Roman times any fortified area or military camp. The signature I am currently using --- I tend to change it about every week --- is in Nuirn, a language some friends and I made up when we were in college. It is based mostly on German and Swedish, but with a widely different grammar, and I made the spelling system rather fanciful as well. The signature would actually be pronounced: Thwee Hesh shonen a Reek, in a Mawdgey, in an Ulder, guh high own'en, amen. and means: For Thine is the Kingdom, and the Power, and the Glory forever, amen.

The Names of the trumps in Latin thread was originally posted on 17 Jan 2003 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.