ok - what does this mean?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 29 Jan 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

heartsdesire	29 Jan 2003
So today a friend stopped by my house to see my new Decameron cards. He found them very intriguing - to say the least. so I shuffled them for him, fanned them out and told him to pick one. his pick: the High Priestess. Now i have done readings for this person a couple times in the past, but I'm not sure where or what his beliefs in these cards lie. he said - wait - I didn't really concentrate - let me try that again. I shuffled - quite a few times actually - fanned the cards out and he picked one. Surprise - the High Priestess. he was slightly mystified. He called later that afternoon. He said he was stopping by on his way home from work. he wanted to shuffle the cards himself this time. Ok. He stopped by, shuffled those cards for about 5 minutes - fanned them out and picked one - the High Priestess. he was stunned. i was only mildly surprised - because as I told him - THAT is the card you are supposed to get. Has anyone else ever had this happen to them - and does anyone have any explaination for this?

Eowyn	29 Jan 2003
yes, but this is too much, i mean, i get sometimes the same card, asking the same, but in different moments. But you two should buy a lotery ticket once you finnish the little work the HP left him. Because this is not your task. Its his.

lupo138	30 Jan 2003
it happened to me several times when I was a beginner - now I don´t use to do "tricks" like that any more ;)

Jenny-Li	30 Jan 2003
Well, he obviously has something to learn from the High Priestess. Does he know the cards well himself? If he doesn't, perhaps you could sit down with him and discuss the possible meanings of the card. Perhaps there is a spiritual side to him that is awakening and needs to be recognised and worked with, perhaps this is about some qualities of himself that he needs to acknowledge and let out more... The possibilities are many, endless I'd say - but the appearing of the same card on three draws, that is way too obviously significant to be ignored! :) I have never had this happen, not so clearly. But then again I have never been much for frequent draws, I keep and work with my spreads for longer instead. I did often get the Queen of Swords in my early readings for myself, and seeing that card in relation to myself so often was very much a help to figure out some major issues in my life. So paying attention to cards that pop out often is definitely something I believe in! Good luck with this! Light and love, Jenny :)

Osher	30 Jan 2003
I recall a year ago or so, that each time I drew a card for myself it was the 6 of swords. Never quite worked out what it meant. I suppose I could try and ascribe something to it, but I'm not sure. Quite often I get the 9 Coins. I've been told it's my future wife, but she hasn't appeared for a while now......!

firemaiden	30 Jan 2003
Wow, this is where the tarot starts to get freaky. This was what I was trying to express when I wrote about the dream interpretation reading I did twice, with two different decks, and each time got the same three cards in the same three positions. Nobody was much impressed, and I was told to calm down. I couldn't believe it. Honestly, how can an absense-of-god fearing citizen like me react with calm to such a tale of mind-boggling coincidence? No, really, three times the High Priestess??... (by the way, one of my twice repeated cards was also the high priestess, which is also my personal card)...what is the hidden message in all of this? Are we proving the card manifestation of what I learned from RP Forest of Souls is the phenomenon of[/i]

Diana	30 Jan 2003
I am finding it a little hard to understand the incredulity that I have noticed in some of the above posts. I mean, do you believe in Tarot or don't you? What is there so unusual or surprising in the Tarot giving you the message that you are supposed to hear? Isn't that its purpose? And I reckon if we don't listen, Tarot will try and try again. And then if we still don't listen, it'll probably give us up as a hopeless case who is not interested in its message. And try and send us a new one........ I wonder when it stops trying? Or is its patience infinite?

Eowyn	30 Jan 2003
Quote: Originally posted by firemaiden Are we proving the card manifestation of what I learned from RP Forest of Souls is the phenomenon of [/i] Can you tell more about this entangled particles thing? when you get several times the same answer its a very interesting thing...

firemaiden	30 Jan 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Diana I am finding it a little hard to understand the incredulity that I have noticed in some of the above posts. I mean, do you believe in Tarot or don't you? Alasl, no Diana, I must confess, I don't believe in the tarot, or in anything. That was the point of my thread, "do you have to believe in tarot for it to work?". I think we established that you don't have to believe in it for it to work. But then again, maybe it will make a believer out of me. I don't believe it...yet, but in the process of learning, its power is becoming unveiled, in events like this. That is why it is so cool to share them. love Firemaiden p.s. I will post the bit on entangled particles when I find it...

Jenny-Li	30 Jan 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Diana I wonder when it stops trying? Or is its patience infinite? :D I have thought about this one many times myself. Some times, if I don't really understand what a reading is trying to tell me, I think I'm just plain to dumb to "get it". And then I keep getting this crazy image of Universe shrugging and turning it's big deep-blue and starry back on me, and there I'd be...! Like the kid who drove her teacher nuts...! :D}) Jenny :)

Diana	30 Jan 2003
firemaiden: okay, I can understand that you don't believe in Tarot. I hadn't followed that thread you are talking about very closely - sorry! That seems to be a good a philosophy as any other, and these things are extremely personal. But now you have posed a further puzzle in my head: If you don't believe in it, how can you trust it? No, I'll be honest, my real question is (and I hope I am not going too off-topic here - I will have to ask a Moderator :D ) : why bother to do readings if one doesn't have faith in them? Why study Tarot at all? Unless it is purely for academic reasons, which is something I can understand without someone explaining to me (I am dumb sometimes, but not that dumb! ;) ). Or else it's just for fun, like playing hockey or bridge? I am really not knocking you here - I truly want to try and understand. Because I don't get the impression you study Tarot purely for academic reasons. And also I don't get the impression that you use Tarot purely for fun reasons, instead of sport or television.

firemaiden	30 Jan 2003
Quoting from Rachel Pollack, The Forest Of Souls: A Walk Through The Tarot, Lewellyn Publications, Minesota 2003: Chapter four: the Two-Part Question: pages 54, 55: (please note, any spelling, punctuation or typing errors are ALL MINE) -------- Quote: “…In recent years, explanations for Tarot and other divinations have tended to focus on quantum theory, the branch of physics that deals with the behavior of subatomic particles […snip…] To this end, some Tarotists find the concept of “entangled particles” very exciting. Entanglements occur when two particles become powerfully connected, as when physicists split a single photon (the basic particle of light) into two identical photons. You can separate two entangled particles, move them miles away from each other, and they will behave as if in instantly communication. If you set up an experiment where one photon has to choose between two paths, the other one will make the same movement at the same exact moment. Notice that last phrase. The most sophisticated instruments detect no time at all between the two movements. Thus two things with no direct communication behave as if they are physically connected. Albert Einstein found this Situation disturbing. He called it “spooky,” and argued that the particles only seemed to behave together. They acted in similar ways, he claimed, from what he called “local causes.” In other words, it’s just coincidence, the same argument used when Tarot cards predict some unusual event. Since Einstein's time, the evidence has become so strong for entanglement that the military and corporations now plan to use such particles for unbreakable “quantum codes.” Quantum physicists often stress that what happens in the subatomic world of elementary particles bears no relation to ordinary reality, that we cannot use entangled particles to bolster arguments for telepathy or divination. But consider identical twins. Like entangled photons they begin (in the womb) as one embryo, then split into two exact genetic copies of each other. Identical twins who become separated at birth and then meet many years later often discover that they’ve acted in concert all their lives, for example marrying people with the same name on the same day…. '" end quote.

firemaiden	30 Jan 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Diana But now you have posed a further puzzle in my head... Diana, your questions are making me really think. I don't really know the answers at all. Do I even trust the tarot? No, not in so many words, not yet, but I am willing to put aside questions of trust or not trust to see what I can learn. But does it matter? I am assuming that in time I will have developed a relationship to them that will give me to trust them. But do I even read? I don't read, I mean, I try to. But rarely get much of anything out of my own readings, except the time that I mentioned. On the other hand, readings which were done for me, for example, the past life reading by Napea, really stunned me. On other hand, Napea is not just reading the cards alone, she has some powerful gifts that as I understand the cards help her to channel. I think the real question is, why am I interested in the tarot, right? I think only the tarot knows. I think the tarot is for me, like the goat that Rachel Pollack mentions in the forest of souls, that leads the rabbi through the tunnel to the garden of Eden. It is like a little spark of mystery that has been thrown down "stars...a spark of light from somewhere far away"... that I am following in fascination to see where it will lead me. It is like a journey that began the day that I first started to see faces in the Miro painting. I have been following a trail ever since, and the tarot is one of the places they lead me first. Umbrae asked us, "why do we read", his answer, "in order to grow". He said, some read for divination, others for spiritual purposes. The cards fascinate me and draw me in. The are beautiful, the artists who have painted them, have drawn on their inner visions, and their own feelings to shed the light they can each on the same 78 pieces of the soul. I guess I am a seeker, and have always been, but I wish to experience the findings for myself... Forgive me, I was born in such a vaccuum of spirit...consider California, the streets laid out in a grid pattern, not in labyrinths, the ghosts of indians long paved under, the absense of history beyond 1870, and mostly everything new since 1950! The absense of winter, the absence of cold, and even a scarcity of darkness and shadows -- so many crystal clear sunny days. .. Is it a coincidence I am thriving in the wintery cold of perpetually grey and war-haunted Berlin?

Eowyn	30 Jan 2003
its so interesting... and I think Firemaiden's opinion its so very important to us, because it makes you ask yourself again and again Why? The day you stop asking why you trust, believe, use, whatever, tarot or anything (I ching, runes, etc) you will be dry, under the wheel, too comfortable and too used. I think it may be just coincidence... but some things will remain to us as a mistery forever, because of our limitations, and they are out there for us just to use them and to make us use our heads and to choose to have faith, believe, or not to. So, to finnish with the topic of the original thread, I think when a layout repeats, something big is cooking...

firemaiden	30 Jan 2003
Thank you Eowyn, I try to be as honnest with myself as I can muster, that is why I cannot just blithely say, "I believe..." Another really important thing here.... my first question, and one that upset poor dear tarotbear, very much, was, whether one had to believe angels lined up the cards... We said no, that is not necessary to believe, although some people do. It's all about what you see in the cards, it all comes from within you, etc. etc, and I got to thinking, if you develop enough of a relationship to every card, that each and every card you pull will trigger some very meaningful response, no matter what it is, yet the cards remain random, I mean, truly random... NOw, here, however, if you pull the same card three times each time using a different method, or deck, or whatever, I mean sheesh, I gotta say, I think the laws of random are truly being broken here...(exclamation points deleted in order to appear calm) -- this I've got to show Einstein!

Eowyn	30 Jan 2003
I had a teacher in school, he used I Ching. He loved it. He was a man of college, lived around the world, etc., and yet very simple and just a kight of cup. And once, we where few in the class and we started to talk about I ching and why it had so many posibilities, sixty something different answers and how was that only the one you needed was there for you. He said "look at that dust particle floating over there, enlightened by that sun ray. I believe that if I can see it, its because everything in the universe conspired to arrange things somehow that Im here, in this very moment, looking that way, so Im able to see this little particle of dust because its was meant to be this way" We were in a catholic school. Both of us, not catholic practioners, using the I ching in the middle of the class... That happened in 1997 and Im still learning of that class.

firemaiden	30 Jan 2003
WOW Eowyn, thank you for that! Also, where does that beautiful poetry about the dragonfly and the phoenix come from? Please share more!

heartsdesire	30 Jan 2003
Well - after thinking on this some more I will say that I am not suprised that my friend pulled the same card. I believe that the Tarot IS more than just a deck of cards. I've noticed in my readings that sometimes the message is not very well formed, but as time passes and I revisit my concerns the message they are sending is stronger. I also think there is definately a direct link from my subconscious and how i interpret the cards. my friend never really gave them much thought and again felt that because they are open to intrepretation that there is nothing mythical about them. I think yesterday changed that for him. It might be that he wants to believe - but logical thinking prevents this - or it may have been that the Tarot itself wants him to believe - that I don't know. I saw him again this morning and he did shuffle the cards and select 5 for me, so I could do a reading for him. I haven't looked at those cards yet - but if the High Priestess shows up I won't be surprised.

heartsdesire	30 Jan 2003
Just looked at his five cards - guess who is there - the High Priestess. the other four cards are all minors - 7 cups, 9 cups, 5 swords, 10 swords. So I shall spend some time with these and see what they can tell him - but I'm thinking it must be something pretty important - because if she keeps showing up I look at it as the equivelant of the cards yelling at him to pay attention!

Webfoot	30 Jan 2003
"I mean, do you believe in Tarot or don't you?" There’s the “images have power if you invest them with some of your own” view versus/or/and the “images have power of their own, they are “other,” psychic beings independent of you” view. I have traveled over the years from the first view to the second. I was in between for a long time and the transition was sometimes kind of scary, but I like it here with the second view much better. (Last night I printed out a picture of the High Priestess along with a Yin/Yang symbol for my shrine space. Hmmm. She’s been busy lately.)

Eowyn	31 Jan 2003
Heart Desire: you know what is happening to you and your friend is very special and interesting. Please let us know your conclusions. Luck!

WolfSpirit	31 Jan 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Diana But now you have posed a further puzzle in my head: If you don't believe in it, how can you trust it? No, I'll be honest, my real question is (and I hope I am not going too off-topic here - I will have to ask a Moderator :D ) : why bother to do readings if one doesn't have faith in them? I am with Webfoot on this one: when I started with tarot I did not believe in it the way I do now, I thought the cards that came up were random and I learned from it because I had to fit them into my situation somehow, and so forcing me to think about my own life. So every time you do a reading the cards make you think about some aspect of your life. Well I did enjoy it that way enough to keep doing it, I guess it helped me to meditate on my life. But then I also got the same card coming up repeatedly (not as obvious as heartsdesire's example, but I do daily draws so over a period you see the same cards showing up repeatedly) and that made me realize the cards were not random at all. I get much more out of the cards now than I did in the beginning.

The ok - what does this mean? thread was originally posted on 29 Jan 2003 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.