some things are meant to be and tarot points this out

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 18 Jan 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

pozt	18 Jan 2003
Hi there, hope I don't get thrown with rotten tomatos for this. I just feel that sometimes (and I stress SOMETIMES) tarot can clearly point out some stuff that you can't really control. And in a VERY accurate way too. For example, some of you may have heard that my sister is having her feelings treated like a yoyo by this flirtatious guy who seems to have his interests set on ANOTHER girl now. Yesterday, he treated my sister like a queen, as though things were back to normal. Then she did a daily reading which came up as temperance (morning), death (afternoon) and sun (night). The morning went well...then in the afternoon the new girl came and his attitudes changed 360 degrees the next minute, lavishing attention on her (as he had done to my sister the previous minute), etc. My sister thought the "death" card quite accurately pointed out an abrupt change in circumstances. After a pretty unhappy day, she went out with mum for shopping and the night was quite enjoyable (sun). The above is just an example. Anyone care to share their own previous experiences, where their tarot readings were not MERELY generalisations?

Umbrae	18 Jan 2003
Usually, the oracular device, Tarot in this instance, reflects the sitters spirit. They are unwilling to see their lives as any different than it already is. They are resistant to change, and they do not want to hear – that they may have made, or currently be in, error. Excuses are made, judgments are made, justifications invented… The Tarot reflect the user – they are a mirror for the soul. Tarot resonates what you subconscious knows, holds it up against the light for all to see. …and the biggest problem, is the over-reliance folks develop…like a good batch of cocaine…you must have more…and soon you are seeing what you want to see…and not the truth…the oracle becomes a sign of what you hope for… The Shaman Zorya said, “If we are too attached to a perceived outcome, we may miss opportunities, or what is truly meant for us”. Sun-Tsu said, “There are roads that must not be followed, armies that must be not attacked, and towns that must not be besieged.” When we make poor decisions, we must live with them. Most call it luck or place blame on others. Confine yourself to observing and you will always miss the point…in life, the object can be stated this way. 'Live the best life you can. Life is a game whose rules you learn if you leap in, and play it to the hilt. Otherwise, you are caught off balance, continually surprised by the shifting play. Non-Players often whine and complain that life passes then by. They refuse to see that they create their own luck. If you pursue two hares, they will both escape you.

Laurel	18 Jan 2003
To build on what Umbrae said.... There are things in the world we have no absolute or direct control over. We ~always~ have the control over how we respond to such things, including making the semi-conscious choice to act helpless and emotionally victimized. I don't see anything about absolutes in your sister's self-reading, only choices, potentials, patterns. ~LAS

imagoddess	18 Jan 2003
It is all about balance and intergration. One cannot rely on the Tarot as their only source of truth. Paying attention to intuition is important. Be honest with yourself im important. Seeking a balance within one's temperant between the physical/emotional/spirutual planes is very important. We must integrate all of this to be optimally functioning human beings and good tarot readers.

Teranar	18 Jan 2003
Something I always keep in my head when reading is that the tarot is telling me what I need to know, not neccesarily what I want to know. Take the above reading, she could have taken heed of the death's warning and prepaired for the guy's abrupt change in behavior by, say, slapping him and storming out of the room or yelling at him, or something like that. The cards have told me many times of things I musn't do and when I miss it or ignore it I have always come out the worse, and I may regret it, or look to blame something else, but it was ultimately my fault and my responsability, especially moreso with forewarning from the cards.

WolfSpirit	19 Jan 2003
Quote: Originally posted by pozt Hi there, hope I don't get thrown with rotten tomatos for this. I just feel that sometimes (and I stress SOMETIMES) tarot can clearly point out some stuff that you can't really control. And in a VERY accurate way too. ... Anyone care to share their own previous experiences, where their tarot readings were not MERELY generalisations? First I have to say, I agree with what Umbrae said about the tarot letting you see what your subconscious already knows...well most of the time that is. My car recently got stolen. On that day I had the devil card as one of the daily cards. A few days later I drew Justice and 9 of cups, which gave me hope but I did not want to be too optimistic just from a few cards. Well my car did get found again, it was just abandoned by the road, only damage was the locks were forced (not on the same day I drew the cards though, but I think you can not always take "daily card" too litterally. I find my daily cards accurate most of the times, but I will normally interpret them as "options, advice, things to take care of".

Francesca	19 Jan 2003
I think both things happen. On Friday I drew the Moon and the 10 of Swords. Frightening! I drew a 3rd card--7 of swords. Well, I decided to make the best of it, and went to work. My daily cards never seem to reflect the immediate or 'come true' as it were. At work I found that I had been gossiped about and betrayed and it was an all around horrible day. When I mentioned the cards to my girlfriend she said, "But don't they tell you what your Higher Being already knows?" Yes. And I did not have to think about it much to know that I had already smelled it. I think our subconciouses know more than we do--they 'know' the future because the past lays it out and there are a very few ways things will play out. This works best for the short term of course. My subconcious had registered various clues to what was going on while I was busy working. Francesca

Trogon	19 Jan 2003
Hi pozt... I guess, as far as the Tarot revealing things over which you have no control of depends on your outlook. If a person is a complete fatalist... then yes, you may be right in that, from that person's point of view - there are many things beyond their control. On the other hand... I feel that when the Tarot reveals something, it is generally going to be something which we can do something about in one way or another. For example: Let's say that a person does a Past-Present-Future reading for themselves and in the Future position they get the Tower. They draw a clarifying card and get the Ace of Pentacles. They have a sudden flash of insight which says "Tower + Element Earth = Earthquake"! (Okay... yes... I'm really stretching things here, but this is just for the sake of discussion.) So... what does our fatalist do? Nothing... she or he probably would figure "it's fate if the earthquake hits and if I live or die it's just fate - there is nothing I can do about it." However... if it were me, I'd be working like mad to make sure my house was as ready for the earthquake as it could be as well as preparing myself and my family to survive it and to help others in the aftermath. I do, personally, believe that the Tarot can, and does, sometimes reveal events which can come to pass in the future. However, as has been mentioned by others better than I, the choices we make regarding that future can very easily change it. After your sister's reading, if she had chosen to not see this guy... then the drastic change seemingly predicted by The Devil wouldn't have occured. As a side note... at the beginning of my shift at work I did a 3-card daily pyramid. The card for how my "day" would end was the 2 of Cups reversed. I read this as indicating the day would end in disharmony. After the next shift came on, I was talking with 2 of them when they began to have an argument about some problems that have been happening in the department. I thought it interesting how this 2 of Cups rev, "manifested" itself. Being forwarned I was able to, I think, help keep it from getting too heated.

Thirteen	19 Jan 2003
I think what Pozt is talking about here--and I think we all know it and have said it in some fashion or other--is that Tarot can predict things like an "Earthquake" which are going to happen and we have no control over them. Similarly, it might predict another person's action that we don't see coming. A stranger snatches our car, well, we didn't see that coming. We had the car locked, on a brightly lit street, patrolled by police--but it still happened. We couldn't predict that--but the cards might. Or someone who has been nice to us suddenly turns mean. Why? They don't tell us, we don't know, and we couldn't predict it. Completely unknown to us, someone has lied to them, told them bad things about us. Happens. And we had no way of seeing or predicting it. But the cards might know, and tell us. Most often, however, I think the cards do reflect things we could or might predict or see--if we were willing to see it. And in this regard, Pozt, your example really doesn't work as something that was meant to be. After all, YOU saw what was going on. YOU knew what would happen. And it's only "meant to be" because your sister either refused to see it, or hear the truth, and continued on in the relationship. She could have heard/seen that this guy was flirting with others and ended it before he killed it. Or never started up a relationship with him in the first place, for that matter. As Umbrae pointed out, you have to be careful what you decide is a real "prediction" and what becomes inevitable thanks to your own blindness or unwillingness to act. If the tarot tells me I'm going to win the lottery, well, that's a prediction meant to be--one hopes ;) and I have no control over it. But if I'm in a bad relationship, and the tarot says it's not going to end well.... I have to know that on some level, don't I? It's like that repetitive scene in "When Harry Met Sally" where Sally's friend, who's dating a married man, keeps saying, "He's never going to leave his wife, is he?" And Sally says, "You know he isn't." And she says, "I know, I know." But she keeps trying to get him to leave his wife all the same. Some things are "meant to be," others are bound to happen if we keep refusing to acknowledge what we already know to be the truth.

Alex	19 Jan 2003
asking questions we all know the answer for too. I mean, when I read your description on the subject matter, I though "the guy is an ass@#le". I also asked myself, why does her sister put up with this? The problem is, if you ask about other people, you may get an answer you already knew, but either way, it gives you very little to work with. However, if you had instead asked something that would had given your sister a bit of more control, like "why is she letting herself be hurt by an ass@#le and what can she do towards self-assertion", then the answer would be something to work with. And depending on how she behaves, it is *even* possible to change the way this guy behaves towards her. Nothing like giving oneself some worth to convince other people that you have worth. Unfortunately, most of us, women, learn that when it's a bit late. Cheers Alex. Quote: Originally posted by pozt Hi there, hope I don't get thrown with rotten tomatos for this. I just feel that sometimes (and I stress SOMETIMES) tarot can clearly point out some stuff that you can't really control. And in a VERY accurate way too. For example, some of you may have heard that my sister is having her feelings treated like a yoyo by this flirtatious guy who seems to have his interests set on ANOTHER girl now. Yesterday, he treated my sister like a queen, as though things were back to normal. Then she did a daily reading which came up as temperance (morning), death (afternoon) and sun (night).

Amythist	08 Mar 2003
Sometimes when i do a spread they point out the worst part of my feelings. They tell me i am building a wall from me and the oit side world they can make you see problems you never knew you had cos they are within. they are really good if used properly. i find the best deck for my feelings are the element tarot and they still not wrong yet. DONT be mad at me

Trogon	09 Mar 2003
Quote: Originally posted by TOO COOL Sometimes when i do a spread they point out the worst part of my feelings. They tell me i am building a wall from me and the oit side world they can make you see problems you never knew you had cos they are within. they are really good if used properly. i find the best deck for my feelings are the element tarot and they still not wrong yet. DONT be mad at me Don't see why anyone would get mad at you for simply opining on the subject at hand. You made a good statement of your your feelings on the matter. Well done...

Icestorm	10 Mar 2003
hmmm.... having read some of the posts, I wonder if anyone has considered the possibility that ur higher self HAS no sense of time... the past, the present, and the future is already known by it, and when you are divining with tarot cards, you are actually asking questions of your higher self because it has already laid out the path of life for you and your various futures are all known to your higher self. and when we get intuitions they are warnings from our higher selves? But then again, thats just a random theory of destiny. I digress. When I first started tarot (an ancient 2 and a half months ago) I did a reading concerning my future romantic life. I was a bit disconcerted as the general interpretation was 'barrenness'. I then told my friend that I'd stop trying to meet new girls because it was useless. He (quite wisely) admonished me and said that If I stopped trying, and behaved in a hopeless manner, I was creating my own barrenness. i find that advice quite correct, upon reflection. I have made some mistakes in my tarot experience in that i have let the tarot cards choose for me what to do. What I should really be doing is using the guiding light of tarot to formulate my own decision in life with my own outlook and feelings. Expanding upon my opening paragraph, it is my view that, although it is quite possible your higher self is an all-knowing entiry, you still have to experience your own life, and not live it through your higher self. Most of the decisions in life have already been made for us by our unique intellect(train of thought), culture, upbringing, and morality. We just have to live through the choices. The higher self should only be consulted for verification and query purposes, it should not decide how you live your life. -of course, if the higher self IS who we are very deep down inside... then I have a theoretical paradox on my hands, dont I ? :-]

The some things are meant to be and tarot points this out thread was originally posted on 18 Jan 2003 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.