What does tarot say about the workings of the universe?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 12 Jan 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Sara	12 Jan 2003
I don't know how many people hold this particular belief about the cards, but in some of the books I've read, including a couple of LWB's, it is stated that tarot holds the key to understanding the rules of the Universe, that through meditation and divination one can learn and understand these rules. I'm wondering who among you holds this particular belief, and how tarot has helped you to understand (or if you feel you are still learning). Looking foreward to people's answers. Sara

rota	12 Jan 2003
Tarot, the way we see it now, as a book of 78 pages, is understood by most people to be an outgrowth of ancient Hermetic thought resurfacing during the Renaissance in Europe. That two-dollar word refers to a philosophical worldview that is the common property of all people. Some people call it the 'Ancient Wisdom'. Hermeticism is related to alchemy, Neoplatonism, Rosicrucianism, Gnosticism, Theosophy and the Qabala. All of these phases of knowledge are boundless philosophical worlds to explore. In some places are shallow spots that even children can wade in, and in other places there are depths and heights beyond the ability of words to adequately describe. Tarot can be a path into these realms of thought. To understand more, you probably need to wander around in bookstores and choose books that seem to speak to you. Specialized Tarot books are an obvious choice, with authors like Paul Foster Case, A. E. Waite, Joan Bunning, Rachel Pollack, et al. There are loads of them to choose from, and you can find lists here on Aeclectic. Once you begin learning, you'll become aware of what a vast subject the Tarot is, and you'll probably be led to search out other aspects of the Ancient Wisdom.

Teal	12 Jan 2003
Well, I think it's got something to do with what's called "universal truth" which means that it's a truth that holds its truth no matter which way you examine it and that is universal in human and scientific belief systems. Did that come out right? I'm not sure. At any rate, it means that there are some truths that are bottom line in the universe and in the way things function. That stay the same no matter what. And the tarot is said to help us learn those truths and live by them. I'm sure someone else can explain it a lot better than I have, but that's my slant on it.

Khatruman	12 Jan 2003
Well, one thing that I think tarot and any other divinatory device says about the universe is that there is a controlling force within it. That so many cultures develop a type of divination that involves some kind of random action to it, and that these devices end up working, I think, says that life is more than random accident. If you do something random, like drawing cards, casting sticks or stones, etc., you give up your control over the situation; therefore, either the action becomes uncontrolled and chaotically random, or something else takes control. Ask anyone who uses divinatory devices and that person will tell you there is something weirdly significant about the message that results. He who doesn't believe in its power tries to find an explanation for the significant answer, but rarely denies that the answer was significant. Peace!

sparrowspirit	12 Jan 2003
Khatruman has hit the nail on the head. My exploration of tarot has given me a very new, concrete understanding, (such as it is), that there is a "controlling" or I prefer the term, "unifying" force in the universe. That is the bottom line "truth" for me, and I have decided to believe it, even if it is just a romantic notion. It has changed my life. Sparrow

Ophiel	12 Jan 2003
Since I approach the cards in a very different way than most in this group, I have a different slant than, well, at least some. I am far more interested in the cards for their inherent value as teachers of esoteric philosophy. One deck you may have heard of before, the B.O.T.A. deck, has a whole program designed to explore the cards in light of their universal Truths. A number of interesting Tarot books have been written by students of the B.O.T.A., including "Living the Tarot." The originator of B.O.T.A., Paul Case, has essential reading along these lines, "The Tarot." The B.O.T.A. people are but one group delving into the esoteric meanings of the cards, and I only mention them because I am more familiar with them. Besides their value as guides with Hermetic philosophy, the cards are used as tools in meditation on the Tree of Life, the study of the C/K/Qabalah. We have a group devoted to that in our forums. I think we can all benefit from a wider appreciation of the Tarot, with me learning more about them as tools in divination, and as many staunch readers opening themselves up to the valuable spiritual wisdom to found within the deck. I think many, just by association with the cards, intuitively know a great deal more, spiritually, then even they might realize!

patter	14 Jan 2003
I think is tarot is too much a reflection of the culture(s) that shaped it. Maybe a path to turth just like I Ching or tea leaves or whatever -- but not a universal one like say... dreams.

Khatruman	14 Jan 2003
Quote: Originally posted by sparrowspirit My exploration of tarot has given me a very new, concrete understanding, (such as it is), that there is a "controlling" or I prefer the term, "unifying" force in the universe. Sparrow Yes, Sparrow, I like unifying much better. I see the spirit as something that resides inside all living beings, forming the whole and making it cohere. Actually, I just realized that I wish most Christians really felt this way also. From my background in Christianity, with God as the father, there is this overwhelming given that God is the being who lords over us, not within us. Which I think is why so many Christians end up sinning, though they know "God sees all." If you see God as an extraneous being, there is always that unconscious idea that it is possible to hide from him, especially when temptation takes control. You can justify that, "Well, maybe God isn't looking right now." If you feel that the divine spirit is something within everyone, and not a separate being, you realize that it is impossible to hide from yourself. Just a thought. Peace!

Jewel	14 Jan 2003
Sara, I am going to reply to your question in a totally different manner ... I would like to recommend that you read a book called The Forest of Souls by Rachel Pollack. It is NOT a traditional tarot book by any means! but it delves into your question on another level. I found the book to be very thought provoking and interesting.

fairyhedgehog	14 Jan 2003
Tarot seems to me to embody a particular view of the universe which is (as patter has said) culture bound but which is nevertheless interesting. I'm going by what I see, not by books or history here. It is basically patriarchal (Emperor, Pope), dualistic (male/female in the court cards and some of the Major Arcana), heterosexual (Lovers). There is a great belief in Fate (Wheel of Fortune, the Tower) and in Christian religious figures (Devil, Pope). Too much thinking is bad (8, 9, 10 swords) and solid hard work is good (3, 8 pentacles). Emotion is dreamy and 'head in the clouds' (7 of cups) but creativity is good (2, 3, 6 wands) as long as you don't have too much of it (10 Wands). That's not my philosophy at all! It makes me wonder how I can work with the Tarot, and I think it is because the pictures are open to so many interpretations that we can easily make of it what we want.

Fuzzmello	14 Jan 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Sara I don't know how many people hold this particular belief about the cards, but in some of the books I've read, including a couple of LWB's, it is stated that tarot holds the key to understanding the rules of the Universe, that through meditation and divination one can learn and understand these rules. Sara You bet your crystal ball, Sara! I think tarot is only one of an infinite number of instruments with which to obtain a glimpse of the Universe at play. In fact, everything in the Universe has the potential to be used in this manner, it's only a matter of convenience that humans set aside certain objects to use ritualistically in divination. I'm not sure that tarot is a better means of "understanding the rules" than runes, astrology, reading tea leaves or chicken entrails, or for that matter, sub-atomic particle analysis, since all of these methods are going to fail to render objective results. That's because the person or persons reading or analyzing will always of necessity bring their human prejudices into the process. And that's the first thing we discover in learning to read the cards. For that reason, the Universe can't be 'known', it can only be experienced. If I'm right about that , it seems any method you choose will do when it comes to getting the big picture. Fuzz

brennamor	15 Jan 2003
I agree with Jewel's recommendation - take a look at Forest of Souls by Rachel Pollack. In it she addresses Wisdom questions such as "what is the nature of God". It's a fascinating book and a great read. And even if it doesn't completely address your question - you may find some thought provoking and eye-opening stuff in it.

patter	15 Jan 2003
Yes -- there might be a different thread here. I sometimes have trouble reading for gay and/or highly non-religious clients. I think the basic messages of the cards can still work -- but have to be careful in picking the pack. The fate/obedience thing has never been a favourite of mine -- nor any version of the religious leaders cards (Pope, heirophant whatever -- I'm atheist) It really put me off for a while -- until I got to relate more to the cards deep meaning rather than its surface one. I would guess that people with a more mechanistic, scientific and atheistic veiw point would not find 'their' universe in the cards. I don't. I think the cards help us deal with each other... the universe looks after itself ;) Quote: Originally posted by fairyhedgehog Tarot seems to me to embody a particular view of the universe which is (as patter has said) culture bound but which is nevertheless interesting. I'm going by what I see, not by books or history here. It is basically patriarchal (Emperor, Pope), dualistic (male/female in the court cards and some of the Major Arcana), heterosexual (Lovers). There is a great belief in Fate (Wheel of Fortune, the Tower) and in Christian religious figures (Devil, Pope). Too much thinking is bad (8, 9, 10 swords) and solid hard work is good (3, 8 pentacles). Emotion is dreamy and 'head in the clouds' (7 of cups) but creativity is good (2, 3, 6 wands) as long as you don't have too much of it (10 Wands). That's not my philosophy at all! It makes me wonder how I can work with the Tarot, and I think it is because the pictures are open to so many interpretations that we can easily make of it what we want.

fairyhedgehog	15 Jan 2003
Quote: Originally posted by patter I would guess that people with a more mechanistic, scientific and atheistic veiw point would not find 'their' universe in the cards. That's me :) I take an atheistic, scientific view of the world. I think that the reason I can use tarot is what I have been told about the cards. So many of the cards can be seen as an invitation to change in some way and that fits in with my worldview.

Trogon	15 Jan 2003
The Tarot as a key to the Universe? Yes... I've heard something along this line mentioned once or twice, but it always makes me wonder; the key to which Universe? I feel that the Tarot, as mentioned by Fuzzmello, can give us a glimpse into our Universe, but how far can that glimpse take us? I believe that throughout our entire lives we have the capability of seeing our Universe because we are an integral part of it. But I also feel that each of us has a slightly different Universe - because each of us holds a slightly different spot in the Universe, it is slightly different for each one of us. Our interactions with each other, our feelings, our emotions each of these things changes our point of view just a little bit and causes changes for those we come into contact with throughout the day. These changes affect us personally, hence affecting our universe - because our Universe is us. I think the Tarot is very much about human life experience. It can give us insight into things we feel, experience, remember, see, taste, smell, touch, etc... All of these things are a part of our individual Universes. In my opinion, the Tarot, more than anything, gives us insight into ourselves. This is where each of our Universes lies. Certainly there are things outside ourselves, powers, matter, energy, other beings, planets, stars, galaxies. But without understanding ourselves, we can not truly comprehend these other Universes. Now... that was more thinking than I've done all week... You've given me a headache... I'm off to search my Universe for some Esoteric Tylenol...

sparrowspirit	15 Jan 2003
The idea of understanding one's own universe, as opposed to THE UNIVERSE, is a good one. I also find that using the cards helps me to understand other's universes. For example, I did a reading on my boyfriend's cat that ran away. The first card that came up was the Queen of Cups. I knew right away that that was referring to my boyfriend, and that I had to be aware of his vulnerability in this matter. It made me more sensitive to his universe. Sparrow

The What does tarot say about the workings of the universe? thread was originally posted on 12 Jan 2003 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.