Academic use for tarot???

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 02 Feb 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

firemaiden	02 Feb 2003
Hello all you brilliant scholars out there. I have half a mind to go back to 'the academy' seeing as I am having so much fun using my brain on this forum. (I am a French Literature doctoral candidate drop-out) .This subject has seized ahold of my brain to the point of no return. It hardly seems however that there is not much one could do with this interest in a university setting. ... or am I wrong? Where would interest in Tarot, its imagery, symbolism, history, etc. fit in into an academic setting? how might it find its way into scholarly pursuits as in within a university? Which department? history? cultural anthropology? literature? art history? medieval studies? Perhaps occultism could be a side-line to a thesis on the fanastic in romanticism, or in medieval lit, or something. All ideas/feedback sought!

tehuti	02 Feb 2003
A study of different decks and the symbolism employed in them could possibly fit into studies of comparative religion and philosophy?

AmounrA	02 Feb 2003
Psychology. Its structure and creation seems to have a common link with the ambiguous nature of the unconscious. Also the nature of the trumps and there correlations with archetypes. ...Even synchronicity.

Alex	02 Feb 2003
after advancing candidacy it may as well be that academe is not for you. It's not a criticism: academe is a lot about endurance and so little about doing something interesting. There's somebody else in this forum doing a Ph.D. on something related with Tarot. Search under this forum words such as "project explanation" etc. Alex.

firemaiden	02 Feb 2003
Alex, you are right, it didn't seem right for me at the time -- but I had already done 5 grueling years of grad work and teaching before dropping out -- but it was the lure of the stage, and music that pulled me away ... I am just playing with this idea... is it really so little about doing something interesting? sigh...

Hummingbird	02 Feb 2003
I live in New Haven, you know, Yale University.... In addition to having the Visconti-Sforza on display in the Beinecke Library, they have the following scheduled: Feb 12 Wednesday, 4 p.m. The Tarot Set to Music: Robert Levin and Ya-Fei Chuang perform Thomas Oboe Lee's The Visconti-Sforza Tarot Cards for two pianos Normally Yale is just a big stick in New Haven's mud but this is very cool and I'm there!!!!!!!!!!! http://www.library.yale.edu/beinecke/blexhib.htm

Alex	02 Feb 2003
it's sure to disappear when you have to write a thesis on it. But that's my fed up point of view. I can't wait to finish my thesis to be able to drop it. Alex. Quote: Originally posted by firemaiden Alex, you are right, it didn't seem right for me at the time -- but I had already done 5 grueling years of grad work and teaching before dropping out -- but it was the lure of the stage, and music that pulled me away ... I am just playing with this idea... is it really so little about doing something interesting? sigh...

truthsayer	02 Feb 2003
i think study of tarot could fall under so many academic areas: art, music, psychology, mythology, tarot as literature }), etc. it could also be used in business as a publishing phenomenon or graphic design. internet classes to set up a website. the sky is only limited by our imaginations!

sagitarian	03 Feb 2003
Call me strange but...I would see that it would be a subject all on it's own. Not all classes do you recieve credit for. For instance, belly dancing. At our community college here, they offer belly dancing, but if you take it, you don't recieve any credit for it EVEN if your major is dance. However, belly dancing would fall under dance. In any case, I think tarot would be classified all on it's own, but since it's all philosophical, and nothing is "right" or "wrong" (the essence of why it's philosophical) then no one could really be right or wrong. Hence,how would the professor test you? In philosophy they test you on facts about the famous philosophers. Therefore, it would only make sense that the class would also cover famous authors of the decks used as examples and material of the class lectures. It could also cover some history of tarot. Just depends on what direction exactly you took it.

firemaiden	03 Feb 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Alex it's sure to disappear when you have to write a thesis on it. But that's my fed up point of view. I can't wait to finish my thesis to be able to drop it. Alex. Alex do you mind telling us what field you're in? (I was a long way away from thesis writing mind you...)

Kiama	03 Feb 2003
It could definitely be in a category on it's own, and one day I will found my own Kiama College of Tarotology in the very centre of Glastonbury and see to it that Tarot is taught at PhD level! Anyway, on a more serious note (But hey, who's to say that I am not being serious? Maybe one day I WILL set up a Tarot College...) Tarot could fit quite nicely into Philosophy, especially in Freewill and Determinism... Comparitive Religion, esp .if they teach neo-Pagan religions in this section. Art... Renaissance artwork is amazing in the early Tarot decks, and they could be very useful to a Renaissance Art section in a Art course. And definitely Psychology! I have used the Tarot many times in Psychology essays. Kiama

Maan	03 Feb 2003
I agree with Kiama and i too have used tarot in thesis about psycholgy. If you aver have to read or want to read Jung you should keep a tarot deck right beside you for reverence. One of the few things i like about the Uni ;)

baba-prague	03 Feb 2003
What an interesting question. I think I've had some of the same feelings. I used to be a senior lecturer in Humanities, and I've done a lot of undergrad and postgrad art school teaching too. Like you, I just felt at one stage that I didn't want to give my life over to academia - I saw too many papers published so that people could keep up their publication record, rather than because they really had something to contribute (of course, there are many exceptions, and I don't want to sound too critical, but you probably know what I mean). So - also like you I've been thinking that there is so much research to do on Tarot that I'd love get started on something seriously, and I even half thought about going along to the Medieval Studies dept at Charles University (I live in Prague, Czech Republic) and asking them if I could look at the medieval/renaissance attitude to the sciences/arts/symbolism and the occult. Hmm - the exact focus is not very thought out as yet, as you'll have spotted (LOL). I do find it very interesting that comparatively little work has been done on this in this part of Europe - I don't think it's the kind of subject that the Soviet Communists encouraged! I looked around the Strahov library the other day and there, not a foot from my hand, were 16th century volumes on the Cabbala (really) and I thought "now if I was a doctoral student perhaps they would let me have access to these". As it was, there was a guard standing there glaring at me - there is no way a tourist would be allowed even to touch. So, it does seem tempting to do a PHd, if only to get access to the amazing material here. In the end though, what I love most is making tarot. We are not too far from completing our first and I have just loved the whole process - it's made me look and think about symbols a whole new way and I now even dream about it. So, if in the end I only get time to either do a PHd or do another deck (or two - if that's not too ambitious) I have a feeling I'll go for doing the deck. At heart, I'm happiest when I'm making something, rather than writing about it. It sounds like you might be a bit the same? Whatever you decide, I hope it goes really well for you. Karen ps - Kiama, if you do open a college in Glastonbury - how about field trips to Prague?!

patter	03 Feb 2003
I have come across tarot in psychology (where I got my own phd) as a counselling tchnique and also in the discussion of Jungian archetypes.

Khatruman	03 Feb 2003
I teach an adult high school class on multicultural folklore, and tarot fits in well with the general themes of the course. One of the ideas I stress in the class is to look open-mindedly at folk wisdom. We live in a too-logical world and see myth as something that is simply made up, ignoring the power of belief and lore that was so instrumental in pre-scientific culture. The problem with science is that it tends to want to explain things through verifiable data. Thus, the amazing variety of life is explain in simple evolutionary theory, the strong survive, the white moth/black moth argument. But then it tends to ignore the greater mind behind all of this. You can't simply explain the amazing gifts of nature through freak accident. In tarot, the randomness of card choice challenges the simple scientific belief in dumb chance, as does much of folk wisdom. I think it is a good launching point academically to look at tarot as folk culture. The psychological, philosophical, and theological implications can work out of this, but putting the tarot into one of those academic strains may limit it. Peace!

jmd	05 Feb 2003
The original question's a hard one, isn't it... I suppose that, as someone who has also taught Philosophy in a university department, it would seem that it is not so much the discipline itself which would need to be considered, but a combination of the orientation of the department in the university in question (eg, some psychology departments wouldn't have a bar of it - others would!), and very importantly one's own background, interests and mode of investigation (as a Lit. person, your approach would be somewhat different to an historian's, a sociologist's or to a philosopher's). Judgeing by some of the apparent changes which seem to be sweeping through academia (many for the worse, in my opinion - ie, economic rationalism, though this seems, happily, to be on the wane), genuine investigations into mediaeval, religious and esoteric subjects seem to be becoming more mainstream-ly acceptable... Why not write a few chapters of the thesis over a year, without supervision or enrolment, and then see where this is taking you and which university/supervisor would be best suited? ... and I also wonder which university will be the first to properly offer a position to the field!!??!!

Macavity	05 Feb 2003
I think a "History of Divination" would be an excellent addition. On the other hand, if you're trying to win friends and influence people among academics, best go easy on the "Science is the root of Evil", "Creation is preferred over Evolution", "God micromanages Everything" idea? Possible BELIEFS - But some of us scientists can be a little picky! :) Many see little conflict between beliefs and facts? I have always reconciled this by assuming I could learn HOW through science facts and (maybe) WHY through belief - Though I do remain largely agnostic There's no denying that a few scientists have in the past set out to e.g. "debunk astrology"? Hmmm: Sagan et al. springs to mind? I think a majority would have no time (sic) or be unwilling to lay down before a bandwaggon? :D A propos Tarot and the Italian Renaissance: I was intrigued by a UK TV program on Leonardo (Who worked for Visconti-Sforza) Fwiw, the program makers were trying to build a working model of his 50' (sic!) "super-crossbow" and one of his flying machines to see if they would have worked. Great (and FUN) research projects! But what impressed me most was Leo da V's facility to blend science with so many other things. I see that when he was later adjudged to be too scientific others were thinking of burning him as a "heretic"... Ooops. Macavity

Cerulean	05 Feb 2003
...pick a period and country and historical area interesting to you. French romanticism was an art movement that has one or two sweeping studies, beautiful art, not really classified except for a 'genre'. Tarot or card playing designs with historical influences of romanticism might be a fun niche. I've narrowed my fields from 1300 to 1500 right now, Ferarra through Florence and outlying areas, Giotto/Dante through the last Lorenzo Medici. I've been honing in on history from 900 to 1300 and then will go from 1500 to 1700, 1700 through 1900. But to be honest, culture from 1300 to 1530 in Northern Italy, especially Ferrarra and Maria Matteo Boiardo, is most interesting to me...although 1490-1530 in Florence had a lot of upheaval and wars. I've been learning Italian by going through Giodarno Berti's booklets and Dante translations. If you are an Italian humanities fan, do look into Dante, Petrach, Bocciacco and if you want a nice rounding, remember Bocciacco lectured on Dante in his later years. If you are an art fan, many historians are looking again at Giorgio Vasari's Lives of the Artists and rewriting portions...of interest to me is Jacabo Pontarmo, who was influenced by many masters of the day (Leonardo/Michaelangelo) and who the Medici's used in portraiture. He taught Bronzini and actually had influences beyond the often cited Deposition of 1530. I noticed not many have done much beyond Brian Williams with the Minchiate designs, which is a tarocchi variant of the 1760s and 1820s...a social history about that time of Florence art and culture would be welcome. If any of the above ideas help, then I'll be of good cheer. Brian Williams of Renaissance Tarot and Minchiate fame was always generous and kind with ideas when I first starting learning...so I'd love to see art and history and poetry shared like he did

firemaiden	05 Feb 2003
Wonderful ideas! Keep them coming! It is very interesting to see what fields you are all in-- jmd in Philosophy! aha, during my travels this week about Germany I happened upon a book "Quellen des Tarot. Unbekannte Schätze in den 22 Großen Arkana." = Sources of the Tarot. Unknown treasures in the 22 Major Arcana, by Marion Guekos-Hollenstein. This book grew out her Phd thesis in Philosophy!! go figure... Macavity: Quote: On the other hand, if you're trying to win friends and influence people among academics, best go easy on the "Science is the root of Evil", "Creation is preferred over Evolution", "God micromanages Everything" idea? Possible BELIEFS - But some of us scientists can be a little picky! Please stay picky! Don't worry, I come down squarely on the scientific side of those little wars... and I took Anthropology 101 from Tim White himself!

Macavity	05 Feb 2003
Well, it was perhaps a little "robust" in retrospect - Sorry ;) But here's a thought prompted by a UK TV program tonight. The subject was "Near death experience" - And the retention of "memory" in a clinically dead brain. Yes, the usual thing - the tunnel, the white light etc. But also a reference to something I hadn't heared about before... Where does personal unconsciousness (beloved of Tarot readers) reside? UK Physicist Roger Penrose is apparently(?) working with US medics on such studies and claims it lives within "Quantum Computers" inside microtubules on the sub cellular level. (Near) Death liberates conciousness on a quantum scale and it can then move externally to the body - Ooooer! Would it then join the collective unconciousness? (My question) But this was where my mind reached it's quantum limit! Worth checking out on the Web maybe? :D Macavity

firemaiden	05 Feb 2003
Where was it that I was told, a system cannot understand itself? :)

firemaiden	06 Feb 2003
Quote: ... genuine investigations into mediaeval, religious and esoteric subjects seem to be becoming more mainstream-ly acceptable... That is encouraging! I remember that unease faced by David Ulansey when he was just working on Mithra -- it seems to have turned out well for him. Quote: Why not write a few chapters of the thesis over a year, without supervision or enrolment, and then see where this is taking you and which university/supervisor would be best suited? ... and I also wonder which university will be the first to properly offer a position to the field!!??!! Thank you jmd for the suggestion! If this forum keeps fueling my obsession, I may have no choice!

Minos	07 Feb 2003
You know, I've been thinking for a while that some day an English grad student is going to make a name for himself by studying Aleister Crowley as a minor Modernist author. The Book of Thoth would be an especially fruitful topic, as the book contains ideas and excerpts from most of his major works, and you could bring in the influence of Futurism and similar movements on Frieda Harris's art. Viscont-Sforza and TdM would be fine topics for Renaissance and Early Modern scholars, respectively. I also seem to recall reading a review of a sociological or cultural anthropological study of Tarot readers in the Bay Area in the 70's.

Minos	07 Feb 2003
Quote: Originally posted by firemaiden That is encouraging! I remember that unease faced by David Ulansey when he was just working on Mithra -- it seems to have turned out well for him. Archaeologists I've talked to still tend to view him as a crank.

firemaiden	07 Feb 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Minos Archeologists I've talked to still tend to view him as a crank. Really Minos!! Oh my God! That is too sad! Or, is it funny? You gave me some particularly wonderful ideas. Especially to work on the book of Thoth. That is a really exciting idea. No, really. Are you in Classics, Minos?

The Academic use for tarot??? thread was originally posted on 02 Feb 2003 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.