All mixed up and don't know which way to go!

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 02 Feb 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Aoife	02 Feb 2003
I decided a few days ago that I needed to put my decks away and start again with blank index cards. First I was going to look at numbers then elements then their relationship to the Majors - and in the process really try to turn my 'blank pieces of paper' into a personal deck informed by my own insights, intuition. And I still feel this is a useful - albeit very lengthy exercise. But in the meantime I want to carry on reading for myself and friends. So out come my decks again. I'm starting to get irritated by the 'fixed' pictures on my RWS and clones - they are too 'noisy', too much of an influence and I want to get into a more reflective mode. But..... I feel I have only skimmed the surface of understanding the RSW 'system'. So should I stay with it and learn more and deeper before moving on? Or should I move on? And for me this would mean developing my understanding of the Thoth or Marseille 'systems'. My impression.... [please don't shout at me - it's only my very uninformed opinion!] ..... is that the Marseille 'system' is the most 'pure', and in addition to the number/element/major correlations, requires a depth of intuitive skill which I don't yet possess. The advantage of the Thoth 'system' are the 'moody minors', a step on from pictures but not the 'cold turkey' of Marseille pips. But there are significant differences in understanding from the RWS 'system' which at this stage I might find confusing. I'm not suggesting that I want to learn one 'system' to the exclusion of all others, I'd just like to give particular focus to one. I would really appreciate some guidance.

Ravenswing	02 Feb 2003
Aoife-- From the general tone of your posting, I would suggest that you go for the Thoth deck. For one thing, its interpretations are more in line with the Golden Dawn system than the RWS. If you ever expand your studies in the direction of their view of Qabala, you've already studied the basics. The thoth deck comes with an amazing LWB. This link will take you to an excellent Thoth site. There's some wonderful layouts, and a section of interpretations written by various people who frequent the site. I find that reading other people's slants on the cards helps greatly to broaden my own perceptions http://www.geocities.com/Paris/2110/ This link will take you to an on-line copy of the Book of Thoth, Crowley's text on Tarot. Not an easy book, but then again, Crowley was never easy. I suggest you cruise the first site to get a good feel for the deck before you attempt this one. http://www.angelfire.com/celeb/Crowley/thoth/thoth.html I've used an index card method for working out a tarot deck of my own. Notes went on one side, illustration on the other. Is this how you are doing your cards? I hope this helps, and I wish you well on your journey Ravenswing

Aoife	02 Feb 2003
Ravenswing, Thank you so much for the links and most particularly for your advice and support. Re: Index card deck I had to throw away my first attempts because I was cramming them with [mainly other people's] words. I'm now keeping written material separately and just putting visual stuff - drawings, doodles, clipped and collaged images from magazines - and as few trigger words or phrases as possible [and those have to be personal not accepted meanings]. Quite frankly they look a bit of a mess but the aim - I tell myself - is not necessarily cohesive images but creativity through intuition. Which sounds very grand but I'm also quite enjoying 'playing' - cutting and glueing - and I'm trying to remember to colour outside of the lines! Eve PS I've just seen your work - the Moon card - on another thread. Amazing!!

Diana	02 Feb 2003
Eve, reading through your post, I have the impression that you already know the answer. In spite of all the advice you will be getting here, I suggest you follow your heart. Put all three decks in front of you, and choose the one you are drawn to. Don't worry about any so-called difficulties - just GO for it! However, and here I cannot prevent myself from defending my favourite system, if it is only because you find the Marseille intimidating, and because there doesn't seem to be sufficient literature in English to help you on your way, why don't you just ask your questions right here on Aeclectic? There are other Marseille users on Aeclectic (not many, but we are growing! :) ) who I imagine would be only too happy to discuss it. I'm not too keen on the RWS system, myself. But this is not the place to go into why. As to the Thoth, I find it far more exciting than the RWS, just due to the sheer power that it exudes.

Ravenswing	02 Feb 2003
Eve-- Perhaps rather than index cards, you might consider a larger board / paper. you can get 8 1/2 x 14 or 11 x 17 paper at any office supply place. Make youself a collage for the cards. If you want to get industrious, you might even mat the majors and hang them around your house. After all, Tarot is not just a deck of cards, it's a way of life. just a thought Raven

Mojo	02 Feb 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Aoife I'm starting to get irritated by the 'fixed' pictures on my RWS and clones - they are too 'noisy', too much of an influence and I want to get into a more reflective mode. But..... I feel I have only skimmed the surface of understanding the RSW 'system'. So should I stay with it and learn more and deeper before moving on If you just want simple representations of the Waite-Smith images, try the Stick Figure Tarot. It has the basic images without all the noise. I love this deck for its simplicity and I've used it when training others who have the same reaction to the images that you do.

Aoife	02 Feb 2003
Diana, thank you! But now I'm intrigued to know which one you think I've already chosen because, truth be told, you're right. If I say, look out for a very demanding newbie on the History Forum, would you be surprised? Strange thing is, I don't know why I'm drawn to Marseille. It isn't a question of being wary of Thoth because I'm pretty sure whatever past anxieties I might have had have been resolved. Anyway, I'm sure I'll soon find out. I thought I was already on a steep learning curve - I suspect it's just about to come close to vertical! Eve

Diana	02 Feb 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Aoife Strange thing is, I don't know why I'm drawn to Marseille. Eve You said why you're drawn to it in your first post! - lol -. All Tarot systems have their merits. And probably new ones will be developed in the future. But to me those that exist now are truncated, when compared to the Marseilles. The simplicity and the wholeness of the Marseilles is truly awesome. Now we are all waiting to hear of your decision, when you make it.

Aoife	02 Feb 2003
Ravenswing - many thanks for the additional advice. I'll give the idea of larger cards some thought. Mojo - many thanks for your suggestion but I have to confess my heart sank when I saw the images - I'm still seduced by beautiful art. Diana - decision made for the reasons stated - LOL ! I think perhaps I feared it was too large a leap for me to make but your encouragement inspires me! You will just have to smack me down when I become too persistent with questions! Many thanks to all! I'm really excited - a new path! - I thought I wasn't fit enough for the terrain but if I take my time and enjoy the scenery....... knapsack on back, bichon frisee nipping at my heels..... oops! better watch where I'm going - got to concentrate hard now! Eve

Thirteen	02 Feb 2003
Have I got a deck for you! http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/davids/index.html You can buy these off the artist for a mere $15 (plus postage, I *think*!)--it's the most marvelous deck. My only complaint being that it's on card stock (or was) and so likely to bend or smudge. But the images are as pure and simple as you can get--yet evocative, really capturing the essence of the card. One of my faves is the 6-pentacles. Just an six-sided figure (hexagon) in the lower left-hand corner. That's it. That's all. Simply beautiful.

Aoife	02 Feb 2003
Thirteen, thank you! I can see your point about the simplicity of this deck but I've decided to call a halt to buying decks other than historical. It is, as Diana said, the simplicity, wholeness and beauty of the original decks which captivates me ...... and it's a path I'm eager to follow. Thank you again, Eve

Baneemy	02 Feb 2003
Marseilles pips aren't really as hard as everyone makes them out to be. The swords and wands can be tricky at first because they all look so much alike, but I think you'll find the cups and coins quite easy to read. The wonderful thing about pips is that they're pure, open-ended images. You're not bound by someone else's interpretation. I recommend doing a little exploring on your own before studying other people's thoughts on numerology and the suits. Meditate on the ten numbers. What are the mathematical properties of 4? What kinds of things in the world come in fours? How is 4 related to the other numbers in the decad? What is the significance of its being 3+1, twice 2, etc.? Find your own answers. Your analysis of the numbers won't be identical to anyone else's, but the objective nature of mathematics ensures that we'll all be in the same ballpark. Forget about the four elements for awhile. Let the suit symbols speak for themselves. Explore them as symbols in their own right, not just as stand-ins for the elements. I find that, the more direct the link between the image on the card and my interpretation of it, the better I read. That's my advice, anyway--but, of course, the "right" approach is whatever approach feels right to you. Welcome to the exciting world of Marseilles tarot!

Alex	02 Feb 2003
and noise is to go for it: by a busy deck like the Farber-Zerner (or Zerner-Farber?) and try to read with it. My sister has one and I hhave tried to do a few readings with it: it's so busy that the noise neutralizes the noise. Result: almost like a blank piece of paper. I have the spiral and I use it when I don't know what else to do: there's color and facial expressions and details that are enough to shut down my busy brain. Alex.

sagitarian	03 Feb 2003
Aoife, I think it's great that you are seeking another "school of thought" sorta speak. I have to say that I LOVE the RWS system, been using it for ten years, and STILL I feel like I have barely scratched the surface, but it speaks to me, and I have a hard enough time getting to know it. In any case, if the Marsielles (sorry if that's spelled wrong) speaks to you, then I say go for it! I hope you gain the inner sight that we all seek through your explorations.

The All mixed up and don't know which way to go! thread was originally posted on 02 Feb 2003 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.