Hypnosis and the Tarot

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 12 Mar 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Alex	12 Mar 2003
Has anyone used hypnosis either on oneself or on a client while performing readings? Some actors and singers claim they use stage hypnosis during their shows, and there are teachers who claim they do the same. There are modalities of counseling that claim to work with hypnosis even though the "hypnosis ritual" is never performed. They claim to induce clients into a stage of relaxation and low vigilance by using their eyes the tone of their voice. I had a teacher in college who would get the entire class a bit numb. I used to get a sort of a high during his classes, and others related similar experience. (NO, before the durty part of your mind jumps to conclusions: he wasn't beautiful, charming or attractive, just an ordinary man who could have 25 students intoxicated by his calming voice). So, what is your experience, if any, with hypnosis? Alex

Aerin	12 Mar 2003
My take on hypnosis is coloured by my NLP training and also my experience of being in both formally induced trances and when it happens as a by-product of doing something else. So here goes: For me, reading tarot naturally induces trance without any formal induction. It just happens. If you use non-specific language and open questions with a client then that also tends to induce trance as they search within for the answers. I go just as deep when I'm reading (or telling a story, or watching TV, or coaching someone, or daydreaming for that matter) as I do when I induce trance deliberately. Often get that amnesia effect too, when I can't remember exactly what I said, plus the time distortion effect (e.g. 50 mins has gone by and it seems like much shorter). If you find yourself e.g. breathing more deeply, slowing your speech rate right down and lowering your voice, and becoming super alert to images and impressions as you read tarot then chances are a) you are in trance and b) you've taken your client with you (if their breathing rate is matched to yours as well, then a pretty dead cert.). Interestingly, many people who experience a formal trance for the first time have a sense of recognition.... they've been there before e.g. when: driving somewhere familiar and can't remember what happened in between starting and arriving watching TV or reading, and having the rest of the world go away daydreaming during some rather dull speech or lesson being with a new partner and being totally absorbed in the experience (whether that's having dinner... or.... whatever). I met one guy who was really scared of hypnosis, and when I checked with him after the course had realised he spent his whole life there :), his challenge was learning to 'wake up'! Aerin ps when I've spoken to people who do a lot of meditation, their subjective experience of hypnosis and of meditation is that it 'feels' the same. That's my experience so far as well pps Guided visualisation is equivalent to a trance induction, even if it isn't called that. I've seen people who swear by guided visualisations and are scared to death of formal hypnosis.....

Athara	13 Mar 2003
The fact is that hypnosis brings a lot of negative associations with it. The main reason for that when there's hypnosis on tv, they make the people do weird stuff. They lose control, and that scares people. But I too believe that meditation is just a form of self hypnosis.

hexy	13 Mar 2003
i am very intrigued by this topic as i do both hypnosis and tarot readings. i have done both with certain people but not both at the same time. the type of hypnotism i perform on people is not the crappy five second stage kind. my kind takes at least an hour to induce properly and is used to help the person get over a phobia, sleep/feel better, break bad habits etc. the only time i have ever had anyone not remember something or lose control of their judgement or body was one of the first times i hypnotized my sister. when i drew her out of the state, she had tinglies in her legs which she said was from the "anesthetic sandbags that i made her put on her legs" :rolleyes: but it was probably just from sitting in one position so still for so long in a relxed way (kinda like sitting on your feet for a while). the sandbags are just a way to help people let go of their tension and stress in their physical body. it never happened again after that and I didn't alter how i hypnotize them. i find that when i read tarot there is none of the *extreme* relaxation state of hypnotism; either in myself or in the person I read for. i don't see the connection between the two either. ie, i don't see how hypnotism would benefit my readings or my readings benefit my hypnotisms; so I would like to hear more from people who do both things and are not prejudiced by thinking they know what hypnotism or hypnotic state is

Aerin	13 Mar 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Athara The fact is that hypnosis brings a lot of negative associations with it. The main reason for that when there's hypnosis on tv, they make the people do weird stuff. They lose control, and that scares people. But I too believe that meditation is just a form of self hypnosis. I was taught that all hypnosis is really a form of self-hypnosis, it's just whether you have someone facilitate you into it or not and whether you choose to follow any instructions the hypnotist gives you. To check this out for myself, during a course when the trainer did a mass hypnosis session I deliberately chose not to follow a post-hypnotic suggestion (generally, it's quite a nice place to be in trance and most stuff e.g. lifting arms is fine, I didn't like the thought of a post hypnotic suggestion though). That worked for me, I haven't experienced anything that leads me to doubt the 'self-hypnosis' interpretation. The people you see on TV have all been selected to be people who are very game for laughs and very suggestible: they are probably the crew who would be up dancing on tables after a few drinks. I would be very interested to hear from anyone who has had a different experience. That's not to say that people aren't susceptible to suggestion, we all are to some extent: just that I do think people can throw off suggestions quite easily if they consciously hear them and know they are against their interests/ values (like the making a fool of yourself stuff in a TV show). I am on the lookout for thought viruses of the kind your doctor can inadvertantly throw at you e.g. implying you won't get better fast..... Placebo effects are a nice sort of suggestion I am more than happy to go along with. Inadvertant and negative suggesting is not good, and tarot reading, medicine, coaching, counselling etc are all fields where practioners need to be very aware of what they may be suggesting to their clients. They are in a position of trust, and people are often wide open to go along with what a professional is saying. Aerin

hexy	13 Mar 2003
oh its quite easy to throw off a suggestion of hypnosis; you just don't listen, pay attention, follow instructions. :) if you have a secret desire to be hypnotized and yet are putting on a front of not wanting to be, then it is harder to throw it off because subconciously your body is listening to that secret desire. i agree being in a hypnotic state is really peaceful and pleasant and relaxing.

Aerin	13 Mar 2003
Quote: Originally posted by hexy I would like to hear more from people who do both things and are not prejudiced by thinking they know what hypnotism or hypnotic state is ???? How can you think that you do both things, and also at the same time not know what they are? I think I'm missing the point here........ I hadn't a clue before I went on some courses and after that I naturally have some assumptions and ideas about hypnosis. From being taught and also from the experience of inducing trance/ being induced. Or do you mean people who have done both and so know from experience, rather than people who know about both but haven't had experience? There's lots of different takes on hypnosis and what it is I know. I don't go into a deep trance when I do tarot, I certainly enter a light one though. Which as you say is kind of nice :), and I feel more intuitive from that place. Aerin

hexy	13 Mar 2003
Quote: How can you think that you do both things, and also at the same time not know what they are? i am not sure what you mean. yes i perform and am experienced both, but no i have not performed both simultaneously and i thought that was the point of the original question as for knowing about both, but have no experience, yes, experienced practitioners of simultaneous deep hypnotic induced tarot readings are the people i was hoping to hear from

Aerin	14 Mar 2003
Quote: Originally posted by hexy i am not sure what you mean. yes i perform and am experienced both, but no i have not performed both simultaneously and i thought that was the point of the original question as for knowing about both, but have no experience, yes, experienced practitioners of simultaneous deep hypnotic induced tarot readings are the people i was hoping to hear from Ah! Now I think I understand. When I first read your post, I thought you meant people who hadn't done either :D and that's what got me really confused. I was, like, huh? :S LOL! I'll try and make some time to have a go with self hypnosis and reading for self. Not quite the same, but I wouldn't feel good about doing it with someone else (unless of course they were into both hypnosis and tarot too). Aerin

hexy	14 Mar 2003
cool; i look forward to reading about your results :)

Icestorm	16 Mar 2003
Wow... now here's a question... How do you hypnotize yourself? (ive tried staring at a pendulum, it doesnt work :-p ) I have never had the opportunity to become 'formally hypnotized' or even seen it occur, for that matter, (ive watched soem 'hypnotize audience' tv but it seemed rather dubious ) And especially: How does it work in tandem with tarot readings? I would think if you cant concentrate on the meanings of the cards, then you cant really read???

coldsuns	16 Mar 2003
It sounds scary!! What if someone hypotize you and rape you..ee! Anyway hypotize yourself is no differences from sleeping?

hexy	16 Mar 2003
wow, such strange preconceptions of hypnotism - staring at a pendulum won't ever work to hypnotize yourself (or i think anyone else). i think somebody just made that up for tv or something; its rediculous. it might work as a focal point during a relaxation excercise, but thats about it - its way different than just sleeping; the brainwaves are not even the same - it is an easy portal for astral projection - self-hypnotizing (the first few times anyways) is easier done if you record the words you would use to hypnotize someone else and play them back as if you were the subject - you can't be duped into being hypnotized so that osmeone can rape you and besides, you would pretty much remember everything that happened anyways (in the event of tv-like or live-audience type of hypno it might take a little while but they can't erase your memory or anything; specially not without your consent); unless you wanted them to and followed their instructions when they told you to do something. its not like you wouldn't be the one in control. (hypnotism works on the basis that you are freeing yourself to allow things; though thats probably not a good description and someone else can say it clearer)

wavebreaker	16 Mar 2003
I've used self-hypnosis in the past (but not in combination with tarot). I used tapes that would talk you through the session. At first I thought it was a bit scary, undoubtedly because I was influenced because of all the stuff you seeon tv. ;) But I really liked it, I experienced it as a very relaxed state. I would sometimes fall asleep during the session, but then I would always wake up right at the end of the tape, where they are telling you to "come back".

hexy	16 Mar 2003
yeah thats pretty much how i started with self hypnotism too it was like falling asleep until i figured out how to be incontrol and when i did that, i didn't need the tapes anymore because my mind was aware at the same time that it was relaxed :) (if that makes any sense) but as for reading tarot while induced in a hypno state .. i don't know, thats what we're here to figure out isn't it? (forgot to say that before)

Aerin	17 Mar 2003
Totally agree with hexy and tarotlady. I needed to experience hypnosis with a facilitator the first time, then I found it quite easy to use self hypnosis. And there's a lot of reasons to learn, not least (for me) trivia such as removing all issues with dentists and also I don't get a reaction from injections now (I do a rap reassuring my unconscious that the injection is intended to protect my body etc and I haven't had a bruise/ swelling since). I quote from Tad James ' The value of experiencing trance and learning hypnosis lies in attaining power to heal our own bodies.... and create changes in our lives'. There's some scripts on the web for anything from asthma to stopping smoking to whatever if you have a look around. It is NOTHING to do with one person getting power over another. That's the stuff of TV and fantasy. Experientially, if you choose to, you can be not only very relaxed but also hyper alert to your inner signals, and that's the state I'm going to aim at for Tarot.... Like people get when they are really into a computer game, unaware of absolutely everything except experiencing and recting to the game. Aerin

Alex	22 Mar 2003
for all your replies. Hypnosis is a confusing subject, and there is some controversy even over what is in fact the so-called "hypnotic state", and so far no one has come up with a way to objectively measure/qualify it. I've been curious about this subject for some time and I appreciate your answers. Alex.

hexy	23 Mar 2003
well ... hypnotic state is easily measurable if you have a brain wave analyzer laying around ;) as its "signature" is unique

The Hypnosis and the Tarot thread was originally posted on 12 Mar 2003 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.