Organized Religion?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 19 Mar 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

mirja crimson	19 Mar 2003
Is Tarot an organized religion? If you totally disagree with organized religion, can you believe in Tarot?

Phoenix	19 Mar 2003
Tarot is not a religion in any sense of the word because it had no doctrine, no deity to follow.

Maan	19 Mar 2003
Agree with Phoenix 1001% tarot is just a tool. Some use it to "speak" with whatever deity they believe in but not every one uses it like that. Its in the hand of the reader:)

Khatruman	19 Mar 2003
Quote: Originally posted by mirja crimson Is Tarot an organized religion? If you totally disagree with organized religion, can you believe in Tarot? not in the least.. we have no appointed holy persons, no set doctrines, no prescribed ritualistic meetings, or agreed-upon holy text... Religion is about ritual. It's not about gaining spirituality or even understanding necessarily. One can be religious and not spiritual. Always amazes me how Mafia leaders can attend church every Sunday and make a hit by Monday. And one can be spiritual without being religious. I never attend church, but I hold no guilt that I am not following the way of the Higher Spirit by not entering his house, as a religious person might say. Tarot contains a lot that is deep and spiritual, but it doesn't necessarily have to be considered a spiritual act. Some see it psychologically.

Diana	20 Mar 2003
If Tarot was a religion, I would have run away screaming a long time ago! :D I open my Webster and read the definition of religion: the service and worship of God or the supernatural I honestly don't see where Tarot would fit in with this definition. I mean, atheists use Tarot very successfully. Mojo? Are you around here somewhere to give us your point of view? :)

Inana	20 Mar 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Diana If Tarot was a religion, I would have run away screaming a long time ago! :D Hehehe. Same here. Tarot has nothing to do with any religion, organized or non-organized. I agree with what has been already said: tarot its a tool. Both for personal development and to help a better understanding of what surrounds our lives.

jamesriouxctm	20 Mar 2003
Hello all, I just wanted to throw in a few controversial comments to see if I can manage to stir anything up. :-) I think you can look at Tarot as a religion - not a religion in the sense that everyone thinks of it today, but a religion in the actual etymological sense of the word. What is the original meaning of the word "religion"? It comes from the same Latin root as the word "ligament", or tissue that attaches bones together. "Religion" means "to bind together". As such, any kind of practice that brings together people with common ideas and aspirations, to create a community of shared intentions and goals, can be considered as a religion, in this sense of the word. And to see that Tarot fits this definition you have to look no further than this forum. It's a community of various people bound together by our work with the Tarot. I also strongly contest the claims that "Tarot has nothing to do with any religion" and that Tarot doesn't fit into a definition that deals with "the service and worship of God". It doesn't have to, certainly, but in my view - and probably in the view of most of the Catholics on this board - God can be a big part of Tarot work. I thank God every day for the ability to understand His will and His wisdom through the Tarot, and I express my gratitude by using that skill to bring that wisdom to others. In many ways this is a form of worship, and it's certainly a form of service. Tarot does not stand apart from my religious beliefs; it plays as active a role in my spiritual life as prayer and mass, if not more so. It is indeed a mistake to try to force organized religions onto the Tarot. But I believe it is no less of a mistake to insist that the two can never have anything to do with each other.

jmd	20 Mar 2003
This thread reminds me a few earlier ones upon the subject - some more properly residing in the Spirituality Forum, such as the one titled 'Is Christianity good for our health?' (in which I also outline some of my own positions on page seven, I think). In another thread (which I cannot remember), comments were also made along similar lines to those of jamesriouxctm above - and I too agree that if we re-member (excuse the intentional pun) that 'religion' has as its proper spiritual function the 're-uniting' with that which is deeply spiritual, then the Tarot may assist - and may properly be said to have religious aspects. This, however, does not of course make of it a religion - it has no dogma, no rituals, no formal priest/esses. The Tarot, as Tarot, is simply and deeply a peculiar sequential set of images... but images which unveil and re-unite.

Diana	21 Mar 2003
james: if your definition is correct, then crocheting, or tennis, or stamp collecting, are religions too. They have shared intentions and goals as well. That doesn't mean that someone who has a religion can't bring Tarot in to fit with their views. But one cannot say that it is the Tarot itself that is the religion. A religion, as jmd says, has dogma, rituals, and belief. I would say that Tarot has definite spiritual aspects to it, but no religious aspects.

jamesriouxctm	21 Mar 2003
Diana, With all due respect I must disagree. We say that religions all have dogma and ritual because all major examples of organized religion in our world today have dogma and ritual. That does not mean that all religions everywhere and in every age must be built around dogma or ritual. (I certainly don't think of Buddhism as dogmatic, for example...) I hold fast to my original claim that any activity that brings people together as a community can be seen as a sort of religion, in the original sense of the word. And this would include hobbies and activities such as tennis and stamp collecting. (I know some people who are very religious about their stamp collecting!) The real problem here is a linguistic one - when one person hears the word religion it conjures up images of peace and tranquility, when another person hears it, it conjures up images of priests taking little boys behind the altar. Tarot has absolutely nothing to do with the second, agreed - but who among us can contend that it has nothing to do with the first?

Marion	21 Mar 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Phoenix Tarot is not a religion in any sense of the word because it had no doctrine, no deity to follow. I agree with that completely. Tarot does not fit any criteria of a 'religion'. I think however it may be a philosophy.

Diana	21 Mar 2003
james: I truly understand what you are trying to say. So I decided to check not only in the Webster dictionary, but also in my Petit Robert (the best French dictionary). There is nothing in any of the definitions that Tarot fits into. All the definitions talk of God, of a recognition that there is a higher principle that guides man. Tarot has something to do with God for those who believe it to be so. For others, it is just an interesting pack of cards. And some of those people in the latter category do marvellous readings. I also believe Buddhism to be as dogmatic as all the other established religions.

ihcoyc	21 Mar 2003
Of course Tarot is an organised religion. Why else would I be wearing this Pope hat?

Diana	21 Mar 2003
ihcoyc: You can't be wearing a Pope's hat. The Pope doesn't wear a hat. The Pope wears a tiara - three-tiered in fact. Now, either you are a hoax-Pope and you have just unwittingly revealed your true self. Or else someone has been leading you up the garden path into believing that the Pope wears a hat. If it's the latter, please forgive me for breaking the news to you so crudely.

HudsonGray	21 Mar 2003
But if it's a nifty hat...you can still wear it at Halloween. (Ihcoyc, where'd you get the pope hat? I saw someone walking around in some old Orthodox robes once at a party, they said they got it at a warehouse clerical clearance--man did they look great with all the jewels & stuff on it, only cost them $80).

HudsonGray	21 Mar 2003
James--your 'definition' also applies to my rubber stamp club and the FIV+ cat group on Yahoo that I'm with. It's too broad range, once you narrow things down somewhat to eliminate those, then the tarot drops out of the running too. Interesting point though.

ihcoyc	21 Mar 2003
Actually, I do have a Bishop's mitre. A local theatre company has a prop sale every year, and I usually go. It was only $10. There's a lot of stuff I've bought there that I have worn going out on occasion --- Geneva bands and Revolutionary War lace stocks and such.

HOLMES	21 Mar 2003
interesting question,, the tarot is not an organized religion in no shape and form , it wasnt' intended to be but a tool for self understanding, through experiencing, and studying. yet some people can turn it into a religious fashion. oh the tarot book said this and it must be right as it is in the book . (my first thought mindset when i first started to learn the tarot ) one might say daily throw if given too much power over one individual life is we are giving our power, much like we do in religion. yet in truth , the true tarot like the true god doens't follow any dogmas , or teachings. one person hieorphant is one sacred word, to another tradition, to another connection to the source by a teacher and to another , oppression, and convertion. they would be right according to their beliefs and their experiences. there isn't a true hermit, a true heirophant,, just one person way of understanding it. now one might journey into the card to mediate on the figure. yet it would be only to speak to our inner teacher we all have, that is why the tarot is made up of archtypes, of universal understanding. in the end , the tarot becomes deeply personal (at least idealy to me) and is only understood by the individual own nature as a personal nature. the tarot is not an organized religion, one doesn't have to believe in the tarot for it is one thing that can prove itself even if you don't believe, tarot can be based on egyptian gods, norse gods, and still have something universal in it. that transcend those basis. just wanted to throw in a few controversial comments to see if I can manage to stir anything up. :-) the tarot doens't bind us together ,, it is our spiritual natures that bind us together that the tarot has help us to understand it as a tool to do so . :O). the tarot is but one of our connections, there is also astrology, channeling, numerology here, and you can find aspects of it in the tarot , so it is all connected. aye god, the source, the higherself is a big part of the tarot work. yet ,, that is but one part, our own innerself, our own source inside us is the other part of the tarot work. ah the tarot can share the will of the source, it can also share our own soul wisdom, our angels, our ascended masters teachings, or simply our inner teachers. that is the ideal of the tarot spiritual nature, it doesnt have to have an defination to understand it. and is the key to universal knowledge. but that is the one part about the tarot that is so cool, it can help us understand our own religious roots and apply them or transcend them. we can force kabbalah on it, astrology, numerology , and this only helps us to understand the tarot further, we also force the philopshy, and psychology, onto it as well. thus the tarot can be applied to so many thing even religions. then again,, the religions though they are but a shadow of truth, it was once a spirituality based upon truth before it became religion and began to be controlled by those hierophants and emperors who saw fit to change stuff to fit their needs. i have to see a preacher approach me on tv, or the tv and say the tarot is the way , follow it, or , the tarot ten commandemnts are written in some stone somehwere. (although we look for the stones to this day to see where it orginated ,, it is like it just appeared one day in the hands of a peasant, maybe some noble man had them made. ooohh maybe some angle dropped them off and said have fun )

The Organized Religion? thread was originally posted on 19 Mar 2003 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.