Tarot in India

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 04 Apr 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Silverlotus	04 Apr 2003
I found a link at WitchVox to an article at newindpress.com (apparently it's "South India's leading news site"). I thought someone might find the article interesting. Here's the link: http://www.newindpress.com/Newsitems.asp?ID=IET20030402133116&Page=T&Title=Southern+News+-+Tamil+Nadu&rLink=0 The article is about the growing interest in tarot in India.

Icarus	04 Apr 2003
silverlotus Thats an interesting article. i'm sure someone told be once that the tarot itself came from india, do you know anything about this?

jema	04 Apr 2003
now i do hope that new and beautiful indian decks will come out of this inerest for tarot in India. i can already see them before me. lush and colourful with hindu divinities and myths. perhaps gilded?

Astraea	04 Apr 2003
The Roots of Asia Tarot, a very beautiful deck, seems to be in the vanguard of this upsurge of interest in the tarot. Icarus, tarot historians would be able to answer your question better than I, but I think what you are referring to is the theory that tarot originated with people who migrated east from India, later becoming known as Romani (the older word for these people, Gypsies, stems from the idea -- probably erroneous -- that they came from Egypt). But there is no actual historical reason to believe that the Rom invented tarot; the history of the cards is cloudy, indeed.

Rusty Neon	05 Apr 2003
It's nice to see a resurgence of interest in Tarot's mythical birthplace. :) Seriously, though, here is a link to _The TarotL Tarot History Information Sheet_, which performs a valuable public service to the Tarot community in debunking many of the myths relating to Tarot's origins. You can find it at both of the following sites: http://www.tarothermit.com/infosheet.htm http://www.villarevak.org/misc/tarotl_1.html Best regards, RustyNeon

Rusty Neon	05 Apr 2003
The cited newindpress.com article refers to "pakshijosiyam". "Surprisingly, Tarot has become quite popular with many people in Chennai where astrology, palmistry and 'pakshijosiyam' have always held fort." Anyone know what the Indian astrological science of "pakshijosiyam" is?

amyel	05 Apr 2003
Quote: Originally posted by jema now i do hope that new and beautiful indian decks will come out of this inerest for tarot in India. i can already see them before me. lush and colourful with hindu divinities and myths. perhaps gilded? MMmmmmm, I can see it, too, Jema! Already the awakening tarotholic in me shivers with ant-issssss-ipaaaa-tion! [read a la dr. frank n. furter]

Rusty Neon	05 Apr 2003
Amyel ... In the meantime, check out the dizzying Kazanlar Tarot deck: http://www.tarotpassages.com/kazanlar.htm http://www.spiritone.com/~filipas/Masquerade/Reviews/kazanlar.html

Demonesse	05 Apr 2003
Quote: Originally posted by jema now i do hope that new and beautiful indian decks will come out of this inerest for tarot in India. i can already see them before me. lush and colourful with hindu divinities and myths. perhaps gilded? Mmmm. I wouldn't know about that. From the viewpoint of most Hindus I know, 'twould probably be somewhat sacriligeous to put the representations of divinities (especially the major gods/goddesses) on Tarot cards.

baba-prague	05 Apr 2003
Thanks - interesting thread. A friend of mine who travels a lot for her work recently told me that she was surprised to find a big interest in tarot in India. I found this other link too (just did a google on the name of the reader), nice article: http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/mp/2002/10/23/stories/2002102300160400.htm Both sets of my grandparents lived in India (the whole British Raj thing - they were actually British/Irish, but in India for a long time) so a fascination with the place is kind of in the blood. An Indian deck could be marvelous - even if Deities couldn't be used, there is so much symbolism that could work. Perhaps there is one lurking out there, does anyone know? Karen

Indigo_lady	05 Apr 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Demonesse Mmmm. I wouldn't know about that. From the viewpoint of most Hindus I know, 'twould probably be somewhat sacriligeous to put the representations of divinities (especially the major gods/goddesses) on Tarot cards. Very true... Astrology and divination are very much part of their culture but using divinities in that way would not be very acceptable But depictions of everyday life typical scenes, ornaments, things they use, etc ... and festivals (since there is an Nth # of them) might be a nice alternative

Sophie-David	30 Dec 2004
Hi Demonesse & Indigo_lady I'm just asking this because I don't know much about the Hindu point of view, but why would it be thought sacrilegious to have the deities imaged on the Tarot? I just automatically think of the Tarot being sacred, so I'm just trying to understand... David

Paul	30 Dec 2004
Sophie-David: In shameless promotion of my thread, ;) you may enjoy Paul's Tiered Minor Arcana System, under Using Tarot Cards, which incorporates the Hindu Trimurti of Brahma, Shiva, Vishnu into the interpretation of the Minor Arcana. Of course, this would only float the boat of those who enjoy reading tarots that have non-scenic pips.

Sophie-David	30 Dec 2004
Hi Paul I'm afraid its a little too esoteric for me, I just like to look at all them preety pictures... Cheers David

eastarot	30 Dec 2004
Hi, I couldnt open that link you sent. But am really flattered by the interest you've shown about tarot in India. Though I live in the North of India, I would agree that Tarot has become very popular during the past 2 years. We had a Cricket World Cup which was televised then and the daughter of a renowned reader was reading the cards about which team would win. After that kind of exposure people went crazy about this new tool of divination. And yes my client list has grown. The popularity of tarot has its ups and downs. As a professional reader for the past 7 years here are a few observations which you might find interesting. First the ups, we Indians are spiritual we understand karma, rebirth easily so when it comes to explaining something like the Death card or the Wheel of Fortune reversed, people grasp it easily. I also find people very open to the Tarot as something apart from Vedic astrology, numerology and palmistry yet connected. To help explain some cards I've had to "hindu-fy" my deck and adapt it to the Indian ethos eg Queen of Pentacles, I call her my Laxshmi card, Laxshmi being the Goddess of Wealth. 6 of Cups and 2 of Cups in relationship readings are sometimes read as past live connections and people seem to understand. The Hermit is also very easily understood by even the most traditional of clients. As a tarot reader who's lived in the West and the East, I've adapted my spreads to the kind of culture we live in. For example, one very popular question is "Will I have an arranged marriage or will I fall in love?" Now thats a question thats typically Indian. Remedies This is a big thing in Vedic Astrology which will offer remedies to problems, Tarot remedies require inner work, a change in atitude, practical advice but I've found people still want something else. As a result I've learnt Feng Shui & Aromatherapy which I find work effectively as remedies in some cases. The Downs People think tarot is like a tool of prediction alone, which is what I've been going hoarse trying to explain that it is more than that. Even after writing articles and giving presentations, many people still expect the cards to make their decisions for them and give exact dates about when they will marry. Many people think its like astrology and I have to explain how important phrasing a question is. 99% of the time I will get one word questions ranging from "future" to "career" to "marriage". As you can see, we're still learning about Tarot in these shores. I'm sure other Indian readers will tell you how they have adapted to the Indian mileu and the challenges they face. But overall it's been great. pakshijosiyam - Though I dont speak Tamil I think this is fortune telling where a parrot picks out your card. Spotted in the roadsides of Chennai and Little India of Singapore, it's a popular tol of divination down South. AM waiting for a Indian deck as well:):) warm wishes eastarot (www.mitabhan.com)

Sophie-David	31 Dec 2004
Hello Eastarot I'm so glad that someone working in India has joined the discussion! I was very interested to read of your experiences practicing Tarot in India. Perhaps you could indulge me in my original question, would Hindus - or at least your clients - be uncomfortable with images of the eastern deities on the Major Arcana? I started a parallel thread under "Tarot Decks" before I realized this thread existed: http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=35333 With the kind help of several other AT participants in that thread, we came up with a short list of those decks with Indian content. My desire for an Indian deck all started with a meditation on The Star in which an internal guide, a mother figure called Indira, presented me with a deck which was captioned in Hindi and pictured the Hindu divinities on the Majors, and scenes of Indian life on the Minors. Cheers, David

eastarot	31 Dec 2004
"Prhaps you could indulge me in my original question, would Hindus - or at least your clients - be uncomfortable with images of the eastern deities on the Major Arcana?" Hello David, Good question. Most of my clients are fairly liberal Hindus and I think they'd LOVE a deck which shows the popular deities eg Shiva, Laxshmi, Ganesh provided they appear with the appropriate meaning. For example Laxshmi is like the Queen of Pentacles, she's wise, practical, signifies riches. I feel it would help them understand it better....as I already use Hindu symbolism when I explain my readings. The fundamentalists might not approve. I would be most interested in your interpretations. "a mother figure called Indira, presented me with a deck which was captioned in Hindi and pictured the Hindu divinities on the Majors, and scenes of Indian life on the Minors." Very interesting:) I wish you all the best in your quest, and if there's any way I can offer my inputs (remember I'm hardly your conventional Hindu) I'd be more than happy to help. I can already see the visual of the 6 of Pentacles, rather like the Rider Waite interpretation but soooo necessary in the Indian context - especially in times like these where we're being called to help the Tsunami victims. Hindi is my mother tongue btw. All the best Eastarot

Fulgour	31 Dec 2004
Because requests for Readings come into the ATA Networks from all around the world, I have received many from India. described very well the sometimes too ambitious line of questioning taken, and I suppose that some of my responses have been disappointing. I hope not, because I try very hard.

sirona86	31 Dec 2004
greetings to all, Eastarot, i am a singaporean of indian descent. I have seen the fortune-tellers in little india ( i have not patronized them- i feel sorry for the poor parakeets cooped up in such tiny cages) but i was not aware of the term for it. thank you for the bit of info Though i dont consider myself a very religious hindu at all, rather i think i am more of a liberal hindu, a tarot deck based on India or hinduism would take some getting used to for me. Images of the deities are of considered holy and treated with utmost respect, and reproducing them on anything "non-holy" in the traditional sense is considered sacrilege. You can understand my reaction then when i saw a book entitled "Holy Cow!", about a backpacker's adventures in India, which had an image of a hindu deity plastered on its front cover. The version i saw on amazon.com portrayed the god sporting blasphemous pink-rimmed sunglasses! ( as a side note, i also read about a company that produced packets of instant beef curry with an image of Ganesha on the packaging) i would love to own an Indian themed deck however. ( ah yes, i am full of contradictions)

Paul	31 Dec 2004
sirona86 wrote: Images of the deities are of considered holy and treated with utmost respect, and reproducing them on anything "non-holy" in the traditional sense is considered sacrilege. Indeed. To be sure, I would personally defer to you and Eastarot for the most authentic understanding of Hinduism within its original cultural context: In my studies of Hinduism from my Western perch, I discovered early on that even the most small, simple picture of the deity is considered on par with the most beautiful temple sculpture. Thus, a picture of a deity in a Hindu household is considered a perfectly fine instrument of devotion. The point is that the deity's essence is embodying the icon, and that essence is sublime whether in a picture or temple statue. Right? Thereby, of course, we come to the question of whether a Tarot deck is considered holy or non-holy (not unholy, I hope!). ;)

Haunted	15 Jan 2005
Tarot could use a little more diversity, that's for sure! Kazanlar is an attractive deck, but I'm hoping for even more... The other India thread lists some decks that do depict deities including Ganesha, Laxshmi, and Shiva (Sophie-David includes a link above). Eastarot and Sirona (and anyone else!), any comments on such decks?

ashtoreth	13 Apr 2005
Rusty Neon wrote: The cited newindpress.com article refers to "pakshijosiyam". "Surprisingly, Tarot has become quite popular with many people in Chennai where astrology, palmistry and 'pakshijosiyam' have always held fort." Anyone know what the Indian astrological science of "pakshijosiyam" is? Darn it! The link tells me i have to register to access the archives! gah! I think i will, sounds like it might be an interesting article. Pakshijyosiyam is a sanskrit word, if i translate it literally: Pakshi = bird, and jyosiyam is to divine or scry. !! wow wonder what that means!!! something about..divining.. through birds? OH! :| I think i know, i think this has to do with those numerous fortune tellers that are very easy to find in india on street corners = They have a parrot in a cage, and several cards. You ask a question, the parrot struts out of the cage, and picks a card and it seems that the card will have your future on it. I've never tried that, though. :P I think i will!! hehe. Love, Ashtoreth.

ashtoreth	13 Apr 2005
oops, sorry i did not wait to read the whole thread to answer that question, :P I didn't think another indian tarot reader would have chanced upon this thread before I did.:P My apologies, Ashtoreth.

The Tarot in India thread was originally posted on 04 Apr 2003 in the Talking Tarot board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Talking Tarot, or read more archived threads.